10 replies to this topic

[Keith Tanaka]

We have a new perpetual trophy for the Retro32 races. This trophy includes a winner for the "inline" and "anglewinder" races.
We will have a separate "inline" Retro32 race along with a separate "anglewinder" Retro32 race. The race schedule has been changed.
The Retro32 races will now be held on Sunday after the F1 race. The Jail Door race (originally scheduled for Sunday) will now be
on Friday night after the Retro Pro race. Check the revised race schedule: revised race schedule









Keith

[gascarnut]

I guess this question needs to be asked:

Seeing that the Retro32 rules as written allow inline frames in both the 2.5" and the 2.25" class, which class is being run for the name on the trophy?

It seems to me that those who want to run a 2.5" wide inline car need to take their chances against the 2.5" anglewinders, and leave the inline-only class for the 2.25" wide cars as the rules are written.

Or is there a plan to completely change the rules for Retro32 to do away with the 2.25" class and replace it with a 2.5" inline class for closed-wheel cars?

I guess what I'm asking basically is that the trophy classes should represent the classes as defined by the rules, rather than some other classification.

[Keith Tanaka]

I guess this question needs to be asked:

Seeing that the Retro32 rules as written allow inline frames in both the 2.5" and the 2.25" class, which class is being run for the name on the trophy?

It seems to me that those who want to run a 2.5" wide inline car need to take their chances against the 2.5" anglewinders, and leave the inline-only class for the 2.25" wide cars as the rules are written.

Or is there a plan to completely change the rules for Retro32 to do away with the 2.25" class and replace it with a 2.5" inline class for closed-wheel cars?

I guess what I'm asking basically is that the trophy classes should represent the classes as defined by the rules, rather than some other classification.

Dennis, the Checkpoint Retro32 race categories (inline and anglewinder) will be identical to the first "official" monthly Retro32 race we had in November. That was the first official monthly Retro32 race with two individual races since we had enough entrees for each type of chassis. Since we're used to this format and the cars are built for these two types, we'll continue with it for the Checkpoint.
The Retro32 rules were published before we had enough experience with the anglewinders to know the significant difference between an inline and anglewinder performance. We certainly aren't surprised by the anglewinder performance now, but we continued to run our demo and official D3 Retro32 races with both inlines and anglewinders together since we lacked enough of each for a separate race (except for the November race). The Checkpoint will definitely have enough entrees for both inlines and anglewinders, and therefore a separate race(s) for each type.

We've always had separate podiums when we've had enough entrees for each type, so I think everyone is comfortable with this format.
The Retro32 rules will be revised (later) to reflect the two distinct classes now that we know the anglewinders and inlines can't compete directly for the same podium.

The F1's and 2 1/4" wide classes have not had entrees (or enough entrees) at any time to be concerned at this point. Hopefully in the future we'll have enough of these cars to race in Retro32 someday.

Keith

[gascarnut]

Thanks for the explanation.

So, as I understand this, there will be no official class for the 2.25" wide closed-wheel cars in the future?

I have just finished building a 2.25" car, which now appears to be obsolete even before it was run in a race.

[Keith Tanaka]

Thanks for the explanation.

So, as I understand this, there will be no official class for the 2.25" wide closed-wheel cars in the future?

I have just finished building a 2.25" car, which now appears to be obsolete even before it was run in a race.

We do have an official class for 2.25" wide cars. We need to get enough entrees to hold races for these cars. Paul and myself and hopefully some others
will be building cars for this class. As you're aware, it's closer to a true scale 1/32 class as the 2 1/2" cars are much wider than scale.

The cigar shaped older F1's haven't been built or raced yet. These older F1's will be quite small compared to the other 1/32 cars, but again closer to scale.
For those who have complained about the Jail Door cars (especially F1) not being popular since they are "piles", wait til they drive one of these


Keith

[gascarnut]

Paul and myself and hopefully some others will be building cars for this class.

As I said, I ave already built one in anticiaption of an inline-only class, based on the addition of that to the Ceckpoint Trohy. But I doubt that anyone else will bother now, as the class had effectively been killed by making a separate 2.5" inline class and giving it artifical importance by putting it on the only trophy that we have for Retro32 racing.

[Keith Tanaka]

As I said, I ave already built one in anticiaption of an inline-only class, based on the addition of that to the Ceckpoint Trohy. But I doubt that anyone else will bother now, as the class had effectively been killed by making a separate 2.5" inline class and giving it artifical importance by putting it on the only trophy that we have for Retro32 racing.

As far as the Retro32 trophy is concerned, we can always add more classes to the trophy name plate as we did with the Checkpoint Cup trophy (added Jail Door in 2010).
Since we haven't had anyone race their 2 1/4" cars yet, there was no anticipation that we would have enough entrees for a separate class for the Checkpoint. We certainly can add classes
to the Checkpoint as is necessary in the future. As we've seen, it's a dynamic situation with our racing classes as far as what everyone will race today vs. the future.

Keith

[gascarnut]

One last reply, then I'm going to let this one go:

The Retro32 rules will be revised (later) to reflect the two distinct classes now that we know the anglewinders and inlines can't compete directly for the same podium.

We do have an official class for 2.25" wide cars.

So, are you saying that we going to end up with FIVE Retro32 classes (of which only one or perhaps two will draw any lasting interest)?

We certainly can add classes to the Checkpoint as is necessary in the future. As we've seen, it's a dynamic situation with our racing classes as far as what everyone will race today vs. the future.

Adding classes is not the solution, as the number of classes is not the problem. The problem to me is that there is an inconsistency between the rules and the Trophy.

Giving a separate class to the 2.5" inline cars is like deciding that all cars with Ti-22 bodies will run one race and all the rest in another race, and then putting the names of both winners on the trophy. Or making all those using treated tires run in one race and all those using non-treated tires run in a separate race. These arrangements do not reflect the way the rules are structured, and should therefore not be perpetuated on a trophy.

[Keith Tanaka]

One last reply, then I'm going to let this one go:






So, are you saying that we going to end up with FIVE Retro32 classes (of which only one or perhaps two will draw any lasting interest)? I can't speak for Craig Correia and Barney Poynor on the Retro32 classes, but the classes we have in D3 were posted in the beginning to satisfy those who were clamoring to get the rules posted. Paul and yourself and a few others wanted the 2 1/4" classes and that's why they are included in the rules. Whether we race all of these Retro32 classes or not at this time may not determine if they are kept in the rules.



Adding classes is not the solution, as the number of classes is not the problem. The problem to me is that there is an inconsistency between the rules and the Trophy. The Trophy as we've seen with the Checkpoint Cup Trophy is dynamic and can change with time. Retro32 is a special racing category in that it was never raced in the heydays of the 60's, early 70's which the Checkpoint Cup for the most part reflects. We added Retro32 to the Checkpoint because enough D3 racers wanted it as part of the Checkpoint, which is fine with me.

Giving a separate class to the 2.5" inline cars is like deciding that all cars with Ti-22 bodies will run one race and all the rest in another race, and then putting the names of both winners on the trophy. Or making all those using treated tires run in one race and all those using non-treated tires run in a separate race. These arrangements do not reflect the way the rules are structured, and should therefore not be perpetuated on a trophy. As I stated previously, the current rules do not reflect the races we had over the last several months. Our first regularly scheduled Retro32 race had two separate races, one for inline and one for anglewinders. This made sense because of the performance differential of these cars. The rules will be changed after the Checkpoint to reflect these two distinct racing classes. This is similar to our other D3 classes, in which we do not run inlines and anglewinders in the same race due to the performance differential.

Hopefully, Retro32 continues to be popular among the D3 racers. It's certainly a lot of fun to race these smaller cars.

Keith

[gascarnut]

Paul and yourself and a few others wanted the 2 1/4" classes and that's why they are included in the rules.

Not true, sorry.

I was not one of those who wanted any 2.25" classes, and apart from Paul, I know of no-one else who wanted them either. I said from the beginning that I doubted the viability of the 2.25" classes.

There are other things that I might have wanted and did not get because Paul, Barney and Craig thought differently, but a 2.25" class was never one of those.

[68Caddy]

Dennis I read all the treads about this, and you sure did not push the point.
Looking forward to see you at the Check point and I got you a poster.
Thanks for all the help you have done in the past.


Nesta