3573 replies to this topic

[Bill from NH]

But where's the fun in that Bill???

-john

You take them apart & rewind them! Saves from buying a $15 motor.

[Victor Poulin]

But where's the fun in that Bill???

-john

Well it would be fun for those of us who want to stuff the hottest rewind we can fit in there

[havlicek]

But where's the fun in that Bill???
-john


You take them apart & rewind them! Saves from buying a $15 motor.

Oh yeah Bill...I was saying where's the fun in taking the motor apart and sticking in a factory replacement arm. I was just fantasizing that such a class based on the "honor system" seems (at least on paper) like it would be a blast. Let's face it, the chassis-building thing only goes so far and tweaking designs that are a few decades or more old can only provide so many alternatives. The best thing about the chassis part is that people are digging-in and building, getting a sense of pride and accomplishment...motors are like that too. I have zero interest in doing Hawk replacement arms and wouldn't do them on a commercial basis anyway, but would think that there might be some interest in certain areas anyway for a small group of people to do this stuff and share info. The motor itself seems about perfect for such a thing between being relatively cheap and majorly tweak-able. So use the stock setup (alternative springs and brushes excluded of course) and then any non-factory arm (none of the "known" custom winders' arms either). The rest of the spec could be as simple as people cared to make it. Doubtful that there are enough people in any one area who would do such a thing, but it's fun to speculate.

Well it would be fun for those of us who want to stuff the hottest rewind we can fit in there

I think it would be even "funner" to stuff the hottest rewind in there that would last for a whole race, and this little motor has enough potential for that to be a pretty zippy wind!

-john

[Robert V.]

Nice work on that Hawk motor John i am glad to see some one working on these little motors, i have one of these and it looks like this little guy has a lot of potencial to be hopped up i may have to give it a try. Below is a picture of a new project old Parma 16D it will be a complete rebuild if the motor looks clean that's because it's one of my early rewinds that isn't running wright it runs a little hot and draws about 4 amps way to much for a 55/29 rewind, i am going to document the complete rebuild here i realize there are several people here who already know how to do this kind of work but i thought it might be interesting to see how it comes along wish me luck. First pic of the basic motor torn down soon the fun begins.

[Champion 507]

Robert,

Rebuilding, rewinding and modifying any of the latest 16D's from China is both fun and rewarding...until you go past the shatter point of the Chinese comm's.

The great thing about it is that they are so plentiful and cheap. I've even had guys hand me ones they no longer wanted...for FREE! Even with their low cost and easy availability, they are so far superior to the 16D's from Mabuchi 40 years ago, it's not even funny.

Here are a couple I did last year. I think Vic Poulin now owns the black one. Click on the link and scroll down almost to the bottom to see the ones I'm referring to. Have fun and good luck!!!

http://slotblog.net/...pic=17068&st=80

[Robert V.]

Thanks for your reply and i agree these arms are very cheap as you say people just give them away, when the guys at our track blow a motor they just toss me the arm some times the entire motor. I like the work you did on yours very neat and clean.

[Victor Poulin]

Robert,

Rebuilding, rewinding and modifying any of the latest 16D's from China is both fun and rewarding...until you go past the shatter point of the Chinese comm's.

The great thing about it is that they are so plentiful and cheap. I've even had guys hand me ones they no longer wanted...for FREE! Even with their low cost and easy availability, they are so far superior to the 16D's from Mabuchi 40 years ago, it's not even funny.

Here are a couple I did last year. I think Vic Poulin now owns the black one. Click on the link and scroll down almost to the bottom to see the ones I'm referring to. Have fun and good luck!!!

http://slotblog.net/...pic=17068&st=80

Doug,
I've got the red endbell SlotWorks motor you did, and I have to say, the quality is outstanding !! I haven't run it, as I thought I'd just hang on to it for my collection. I,ve also got the JK-Hawk motor that John rewound for me, that I wont part with either lol.
Vic

[Victor Poulin]

Thanks for your reply and i agree these arms are very cheap as you say people just give them away, when the guys at our track blow a motor they just toss me the arm some times the entire motor. I like the work you did on yours very neat and clean.

Robert,
Looking forward to watching the progress of your rebuild. I would like to give rewinding a try myself, but have alot to learn yet.

Vic

[Robert V.]

Ok now the fun begins, just a basic cleanup of the arm it looks like most of the insulators are in good shape except one which i will replace with furnace cement (thanks John for the idea) cleaned the stacks and removed the old wire from the comm, i believe i cut the comm on this already but i will do a light recut just to make shore and now for a nice coat of furnace cement i also turned back the timing a bit because it was far to advanced. Thanks Victor you should give winding a shot try one of these old Parma 16d's almost every body has a blown one laying around.

[Victor Poulin]

Anyone know of any place, or web sites where I can get step by step instructions on winding for dummies ??

Vic

[havlicek]

Anyone know of any place, or web sites where I can get step by step instructions on winding for dummies ?

Sure thing Vic...www.slotblog.net!...er...actually, this very thread right here. It's NOT that hard to get really good and satisfying results from all this. If you want to "take it to a higher level", then things get tricky, but even that can be learned with trial-and-error. I would not try this without a winding crank...like a LaGanke or similar from RGEO. That will almost produce inferior results and the frustration might lead you to just not try it anymore.

There is as much or more satisfaction in doing this as there is in building a chassis or painting a body. Not much in the way of gear or even workspace required and the first time you spin-up one of your homebrew arms is a hoot! The D motor arms (American) such as Robert is detailing above are excellent, the JK Hawk motor is too and the SCX RX42/42B and other variants are all cheap and wonderful for digging in to try rewinding. Better yet, they all have the potential for significantly improved performance even while maintaining reliability.

-john

[Victor Poulin]

Thanks John, I,ll grab a fresh cup of coffee a a few butts, and start from the beginning . We'll , it is after noontime, maybe I should grab a cold Miller? I,ll have to get ahold of Rick and see if I can get a crank.

Vic

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

Remember Vic, this was done "in the day" by ten year old kids.......don't overthink it!

Fate

[don.siegel]

Vic,

For what it's worth, the couple arms I've rewound in the last few years were all done without a crank, with just the arm held in a pin vice, and results were fine. A crank system would definitely be better, especially if you want results like John's!, but you can also start by winging it.

Don

[Bill from NH]

Vic, when's class?

[Robert V.]

Well Vic the class is starting wright now , Just kidding but as i am posting my first coat of furnace cement is curing in the toaster oven after my second coat and cure i will start the rewinding process and i will document the entire process step by step and to make it really easy i to will only be using my high tech pin vise for winding, oops i just heard the bell on the oven go off time for the second coat and than i will post again.

[Champion 507]

Hey Vic, get that Bill from NH guy to show you how he did those #22 gauge arms:laugh2:

[Robert V.]

As promissed the arm and it's brand new coat of furnace cement, this stuff works great it has the feel of 800 grit sand paper when it's heat cured so it both grips the wire and insulates against shorts, give this stuff a try it's also cheap i think i payed $4.00 for a pint that should be at least a 10 year supply. Next up i start winding i will be using 28 guage wire, not shore if i will get to the rewinding tonight but if i do i will document the entire process, later.

[Victor Poulin]

Hey Vic, get that Bill from NH guy to show you how he did those #22 gauge arms:laugh2:

Oh don't worry Doug, I plan to !!

[Victor Poulin]

Vic, when's class?

Just as soon as you can get your butt back over here Bill

[Victor Poulin]

As promissed the arm and it's brand new coat of furnace cement, this stuff works great it has the feel of 800 grit sand paper when it's heat cured so it both grips the wire and insulates against shorts, give this stuff a try it's also cheap i think i payed $4.00 for a pint that should be at least a 10 year supply. Next up i start winding i will be using 28 guage wire, not shore if i will get to the rewinding tonight but if i do i will document the entire process, later.

Robert, What's the best way to apply the cement, and is this done on every rewind? Sorry, but as you can see, I'll be asking alot of questions. Hope you dont mind.

[Victor Poulin]

What I should do is go spend a weekend with John
You got plenty of coffee john?

[wbugenis]

There are 99 pages of instructions, pictures and sources for materials (including new commutators) right in this forum.

Go back and read the pages.

Anybody who really WANTS to wind has all he needs to get started right HERE.

[havlicek]

There are 99 pages of instructions, pictures and sources for materials (including new commutators) right in this forum.

Go back and read the pages.

Anybody who really WANTS to wind has all he needs to get started right HERE

What Bill said! Winding arms is a craft that never stops developing once you start. I have prematurely and mistakenly said here several times over the past that I thought I was "getting there" with winding. The thing is, you can pretty easily get going and get satisfactory results within not too much time...but if you're chasing the great hand winders of the past and the present, it takes a lot of effort. I now don't know for sure that I'll ever get "there" (meaning doing consistent work as good as those guys), but I'm trying even harder lately doing some side experiments. If you're driven to do better, plan on wasting a bunch of wire...but seeing things continue to improve in smaller and smaller steps. Hand winding is a beautiful temptress who is seemingly forever just out of reach...guldurnnit

-john

[Robert V.]

Hi Vic ask all the question you want, first i use this cement on almost every rewind unless there is the factory coating still in perfect condition you may have seen this stuff it's sometimes green although it can be different colors, unless the coating is perfect it's best to get out the dremel and grind the old coating off and start fresh. I apply the furnace cement with a small paint brush but first you must thin the cement with water to the consistancy of thick acrylic paint the stuff starts out as thick as spackle.

Ok i finished this arm in record time at least for me, first pic i stripped the coating off the wire (this must be done) than i soldered my 28 guage wire to my first tab and start my first few windings from back to front or from the shaft side to the outer stack gonig clock wise, it does not matter what comm tab you start with.


Second pic shows my first stack finished with 40 turns of 28 guage and i have soldered my second tab to start my secoond stack, make shore you keep count of your turns as this is important for the balance of the motor, now just go on and finish winding your second stack when finished solder the next tab as you did the others.


Third pic shows my arm finished, when you have finished winding your third stack you must solder the wire to the same tab you started with. A good tip for winding always wind all 3 stacks the same or as close as you can if you start at the shaft side do the same for all stacks and take your time and go slowly not like i did.


Last pic shows my high tech tools and supplies my spool of 28 guage wire my close pin for holding the wire and that small piece of wood in front for pushing the wire flat and even on the stacks. As you can see from the pics rewinding can be done with a bare minimum of tools, and yes the arms works well i just tested it at 6 volts for about 3 minutes it pulls 1 3/4 amps and doesn't run hot it should scream at 12 volts i will let you know.