105 replies to this topic

[Wizard Of Iz]

By the way .... if you're thinking about using the newly-approved Mid America Toyota HD (#962) in LMP ... just know that the body (at least the one I got) doesn't have a cut line.  

 

So make sure you keep the body legal.

[Hot Slots]

How would the body be cut illegally? I haven't seen any rules reguarding cutlines.

Some turndown in the front.

Is there a back bumper rule?

I've never seen a rule regarding max rear height.

[Hot Slots]

I see there an 1/8 of an inch turn down on the rear of the LMP bodies.

Same 1 inch rear on the nascar.

Some turndown GTP rear.

[Wizard Of Iz]

How would the body be cut illegally? I haven't seen any rules reguarding cutlines.

Some turndown in the front.

Is there a back bumper rule?

I've never seen a rule regarding max rear height.

 

 

I see there an 1/8 of an inch turn down on the rear of the LMP bodies.

Same 1 inch rear on the nascar.

Some turndown GTP rear.

 

 

Hey .... we're all racers looking for an Edge.

 

It wouldn't be the first time that a racer used the excuse that there's no cut-line to knife-edge the front end ..... in spite of the "some downturn" rule.

 

Back in the day there was a Mercedes body (maybe O/S ... maybe JK) that didn't have a cut line in the front.  So .... of course guys would show up with no front bumper at all.

 

The same way some used the placement of the cut line on the Ralph Thorne Titan stock car body to have a bumper that was less than the spirit of the rule.

[Hot Slots]

Garbage Track Power RULE.

Why does the BOD feel, 1 hour and 15 minutes of track time before track power is turned off, is an
Acceptable time frame for racers.

Why can't the tracks be open by 7:00am race morning? These FSCS races generate a large amount of needed revenue, yet the racers take it on the chin race morning trying test there cars to have a competitive car.

At 9:15 track power is shut off. Why? Why can't racers test for the next class? You already limit the RACERS to 1 hour and 15 minutes. When its time to setup the computer for qualifying that's when track power should be killed for people testing for other classes.

You should test the night before. No that's not possible because every track the series races at has weekly race programs on Friday Night.

The RACE schedule TRACK POWER RULE IS STRAIGHT TRASH.

[Wizard Of Iz]

Garbage Track Power RULE.

Why does the BOD feel, 1 hour and 15 minutes of track time before track power is turned off, is an
Acceptable time frame for racers.

Why can't the tracks be open by 7:00am race morning? These FSCS races generate a large amount of needed revenue, yet the racers take it on the chin race morning trying test there cars to have a competitive car.

At 9:15 track power is shut off. Why? Why can't racers test for the next class? You already limit the RACERS to 1 hour and 15 minutes. When its time to setup the computer for qualifying that's when track power should be killed for people testing for other classes.

You should test the night before. No that's not possible because every track the series races at has weekly race programs on Friday Night.

The RACE schedule TRACK POWER RULE IS STRAIGHT TRASH.

 

 

I'll throw my $0.02 in where it's not wanted/needed.

 

I can tell you that there's no way to please everyone.  Some racers want to have longer practice periods and some racers want the race program to be finish earlier in the day.  You can't do both.  

 

BTW .... the schedule in the Guidelines is a rough approximation.  Because other than setting a starting time, the rest of the day kind of falls into place on its own.

 

A couple of thoughts .....

 

*  Opening time ..... Getting to any track by 7:00am would be pretty inconvenient for the Jacksonville crew.  To get to Vero by 8:00am ... I set a 3:45am alarm so I could leave my house between 4:30am and 4:45am. (That means that Eddie/Nathan and JT are getting up even earlier so they can drive to my house.)  Last weekend we left right at 4:45am but the Dunkin in New Smyrna didn't have their act together so we didn't get to the track until 8:15am.  I'm not getting up at 2:45am to get there by 7:00am.  

 

Starting the race program later to provide more practice time in the morning and/or between classes will mean that the race program is going to finish closer to dinner time.  I know there are racers (me included) who like to be able to get home in time for dinner.  It saves some money and keeps the family happy.

 

*  Tech/Qualifying .... Part of the reason the best racers are "the best racers" is because they practice and test like fiends.  These racers are going to stay on the track testing until the power is turned off.  In fact, the only way to get them to put their car through tech is to turn the power off.  If you left the power on until it was time to qualify, then you'd still be teching cars instead of setting up the computer and qualifying.

 

*  Friday night .... As a retired guy, I don't have the budget to travel to Winter Garden or Vero Beach the day before the race. Never thought I'd say this ... but I kinda miss Eddie having his races on Sunday because we used to be able to spend Saturday testing/practicing. But that only worked for us because I have access to a house not too far from Fast Eddie's.  And I know guys that have to be at work on Monday morning weren't crazy about racing on Sunday.

 

 

 

If you have an idea for a schedule change or procedure change that allows the raceway to open at 8:00am and be done racing by 4:30pm-5:00pm AND allows for more practice time before racing starts and/or between classes,  lay it out.  

 

For planning purposes .... and from experience .... I know that a Main with 8 2:00 heats takes between 40 and 45 minutes to complete. (And if one Main runs smooth and gets finished quicker, the other Main will be a crash fest and take forever.)  Then it takes 10 to 15 minutes between Mains to get the old cars off of the track, the new racers hooked up, and the turn marshals in place.  (Presuming the turn marshals haven't wandered off.)

[Hot Slots]

It's simple the Raceway's need to open at 7am, if you can make it by 7am you get to start practicing at 7am.

The track power should stay on during the tech period, if a person is driving a car that should be In tech they can't use the car. The track power is on for the other classes.

I know I'd be at every Raceway at 7am ready for practice for the races I can catch.

[Victorv47]

It's simple the Raceway's need to open at 7am, if you can make it by 7am you get to start practicing at 7am.

The track power should stay on during the tech period, if a person is driving a car that should be In tech they can't use the car. The track power is on for the other classes.

I know I'd be at every Raceway at 7am ready for practice for the races I can catch.

[Victorv47]

It's simple the Raceway's need to open at 7am, if you can make it by 7am you get to start practicing at 7am.

The track power should stay on during the tech period, if a person is driving a car that should be In tech they can't use the car. The track power is on for the other classes.

I know I'd be at every Raceway at 7am ready for practice for the races I can catch.

Brandon,
Look at the rules and you have your answer. You should have addressed your concerns before the year started. Lets address some things that went on in Vero. First you did tech your LMP car and were officially on the roster to race. Just because you decided not to race does not give you the right to practice on the other track, not to turn marshall, and refuse to pay your entry fee for that class. Joe was kind enough to leave the power on the King track which according to the rules the power doesnt have to be on until 2pm for GTP. This is suppose to be fun sport and not so serious. We are not making a living racing in the flexi state series. Chill out Bud.

[dalek]

Next year maybe have only two classes with 3-minute heats.

[Wizard Of Iz]

Next year maybe have only two classes with 3-minute heats.

 

I like having three classes.  

 

The State races are the only time I get a chance to race.  And ... if I'm going to get up and travel 2.5 to 3.0 hours, then I like the idea of running at least three classes.

[Hot Slots]

Brandon,
Look at the rules and you have your answer. You should have addressed your concerns before the year started. Lets address some things that went on in Vero. First you did tech your LMP car and were officially on the roster to race. Just because you decided not to race does not give you the right to practice on the other track, not to turn marshall, and refuse to pay your entry fee for that class. Joe was kind enough to leave the power on the King track which according to the rules the power doesnt have to be on until 2pm for GTP. This is suppose to be fun sport and not so serious. We are not making a living racing in the flexi state series. Chill out Bud.[/quote]



I gave Josh the 6 additional dollars Saturday night to give to Joe next time he races in Vero. So I paid up.

I'll never tech a car again if I can't get it to go around the track, that's funny that you think a person should have to marshal if they didn't even race. I never will. And you think a person should pay because they tech a car, if you don't take a lap and your qualifying time doesn't get recorded you feel a person needs to pay for a race. I don't and they only reason I gave Josh the money was because I don't wanna hear I owe him money. I'll never catch a weekly race there again. That's a pretty sh**ty way to do business.

My issue won't be addressed this season, the reason for my post is so that things can be changed for the next racing season. It's a trash rule, there's no reason the BOD , OWNERS , WHOEVER this may concern wouldn't agree with having more time for traveling racers to get there cars ready to be competitive for each class.

Racing Slot Cars is a competition for me. I race to be the best, I don't go racing for the fun, I go for the competition, I go to challenge myself, I race to WIN. If the rules allowed me to change my tires throughout the race I would have kept working on my car during the race between heats to get it right. But the rules don't allow that either. Without ample amount of time how does a person put a competitive car on the track. I won 2 out of the 3 races.I wish I could have practiced the day before like some others did, but I couldn't, and the decision to race the Friday Night class on another track was made at 6:00 pm Friday Night when Brian text me to come up, 2 hours before they closed, at best I would have got a little over an hour of track time.

I don't understand why the BOD wouldn't give racers as much time as possible to get there cars ready. I'm not asking for extra time between races, I'm trying to open the BOD eyes to make the most of the time that's already alloted, and to open by 7am.

What's so difficult about leaving the track power on during tech for racers to keep thrashing for the next class. What's so difficult about opening at 7am when racers are leaving there houses 3,4,5 hours away before the track is even open.


I don't agree with 3 minute heats and 2 classes. That's not even worth the travel time to for an event.

[Tampabay racer]

It wouldnt be a bad idea next season to have the track on for tech for the next class until its time to put names on it. Some people cant always make it to set their cars up the night before. 15 mins between races isnt enough time to set the car up the best they can. Maybe its something we can vote on next season.


Victor,,, I like you but youre way out of line here. You have no idea.

2 classes with 3 min heats. Not a good idea. Especially coming from somebody who dont run every race.

[Victorv47]

It wouldnt be a bad idea next season to have the track on for tech for the next class until its time to put names on it. Some people cant always make it to set their cars up the night before. 15 mins between races isnt enough time to set the car up the best they can. Maybe its something we can vote on next season.


Victor,,, I like you but youre way out of line here. You have no idea.

2 classes with 3 min heats. Not a good idea. Especially coming from somebody who dont run every race.

I did not post the 2 classes with 3 min heats idea. Im good racing 3 classes. BTW Brian, I have only missed one race this year.

[Tampabay racer]

Sorry Vic, I was talking to
Dale on that

I was talking about what you said about Brandon.

[Victorv47]

Sorry Vic, I was talking to
Dale on that

I was talking about what you said about Brandon.

I have 40+ years of racing experience in different types of racing. I hold many titles under my belt from novice all the way up to the professional levels. I might be a newbie to slot car racing but that doesnt mean I have no idea. When you first show up to a racing event the first thing you do is register and pay your dues for which classes you will be participating. That pays for your practice time, qualifying, and races. Next you have to tech before even being able to get on track. If your motor or you crash and dont make to main event you dont get a refund.
So according to Brandon, I can show up the day of a state race, practice with my cars, decide I dont like the way my car is running and not race, so I dont have to pay anything. So I get to practice for free because I decided not to race?
I have raced in national and international races and you prepay for your races. If you dont show up there is no refund. You pay for that spot because the amount of racers is limited.
Technically Brandon raced, even if he did not make one lap. They used the 6/6 split for 12 racers. He was also awarded for 12th spot points and bonus points. Look at the points sheet that was just updated.

[Tampabay racer]

Youre wrong here Victor. Everyone pays for track time. If we race or not. We all pay the same amount for practice. If I try to qualify and my car just dont work I will pull out and not race as well. Theres no reason Id want to stay in the race and tear to my car or anyones car worse. Thats exactly the same situation Brandon had. No I wasnt there but Ive heard from a few people Brandon refused to pay the racing fee. At the moment Brandon got a little heated. We all do a little in the moment. After things cooled down with Brandon he did pay it back. If you dont race you shouldnt have to turn marshal and I damn sure wouldnt either. So I would have done the same thing as he did. Work on the next class chassis. The race was on a different track and had zero affect of the outcome of the lmp race. We all need to work on our chassis and try to make them better and faster especially you, Victor. You fall off a lot and take people out and dont even realize it. In my opinion. Id be happy to help you with your chassis, but everybody needs to work on their stuff

[Tampabay racer]

I do not agree with Brandon getting any points for the LMP race. I think that should be zero since he did withdrawal and did not race. But hes not in the race and it really dont matter but again, no race no points

[Tampabay racer]

Self edit since I hit post two times my mistake

[Hot Slots]

I shouldn't have got any points for LMP, the reason they kept me on the sheet was to justify charging me for the race. I haven't caught enough races to be in any real points race. People will chime in now, you teched your car in the race so you pay, blah blah blah.

This post wasn't about my conduct after the races.

It's about a Trash Rule, but I opened myself up to this because of the way I handled the situation. I'm over it. But I'm not over the trash rule.

I disagree with alot of the rules and I publicly talk about them. The BOD doesn't like that.

I just need to stick with Retro Racing, yes there are tons of rules there, but overall we can do alot more with the car's.

[Wizard Of Iz]

I think most (all??) of the racers are pretty good guys that do the right thing when it comes down to it.  Do we all get frustrated at times?  Sure.  These dang toy cars can bring out the worst in a guy.  And I say that as a reformed car thrower.  

 

So, I'm not surprised that Brandon sent the remainder of his race fees to Joe.  That's the right thing to do. And, I think Brandon is a pretty stand up guy.  Like most (all??) of us, he just wants to race.

 

This forum is a great place to exchange ideas on how to make racing better. (And I think it's pretty darn good now.). But this forum only works when we keep the conversation productive and don't slip into personal attacks.  Sometimes it's hard to see the "smile in your voice" when it's just words on a screen.  

 

But when things get off track and comments become personal (not necessarily this conversation,) then this forum can be toxic AF.  None of us need the drama.  We're just racing toy cars.

 

To Victor's point ... I don't think you're wrong.  Following the letter of the law ... when you put your car through tech, you become part of that race.  Whether you then drop out after qualifying or after the first heat or after the sixth heat doesn't matter, you're part of that race.  And as an entry in that race, you have an obligation to Marshal.   That's the letter of the law.  That's why Brandon got scored as the 12th place racer.  No different than if he had hooked up wrong and destroyed the car in the first turn.  (Been there!!!)

 

To Brandon's point on practice ... I do believe that your comments are well intended.  As a guy with no local track, it would be nice to have more practice time.  But attacking the current schedule as TRASH isn't necessarily the best way to get something to change.  If I was a voting member of the BOD and you put me on BLAST, it would probably just make me bow my back, get defensive, and close my mind.  But it probably is worth have a civil exchange of ideas about.

 

The challenge is balancing a schedule with ample (or more)? practice time versus a schedule that lets the program wrap up early enough for guys to get home at a reasonable hour.  Having owned a raceway, I can tell you that it's a lot of work. Thankless work.  Is there a way to do both?  I don't know.  It's worth looking at.  Not sure it's worth yelling about.  I'm reluctant to require track owners to open an hour earlier on race day.  Having owned a raceway, there were a LOT of times that we were at the raceway well past Midnight making sure that everything was ready for Race Day. 

 

To Brandon's point about competition versus fun ... Dude!  I know it has to get frustrating to work your way around me on the rare occasions I end up in the A Main. It's frustrating for me, too.  I truly do try to yield on the straight so as to not hold you (or other fast guys) up.  And it's why I really do prefer to race in the B Main.  I'm keenly aware that my eyesight, reflexes, and focus aren't what they used to be.  Like I said, It's frustrating for me, too.  It's no fun spending the whole race trying to get out of someone's way.  But I do still enjoy racing.  And if I decided to just pack it all away in the closet, then you'd be short on turn marshals for the A Main.

 

Most months, qualifying takes care of sorting the racers into their proper Main.  But every now and then, a "B" guy will pull a lap out of his arse and it upsets the balance of nature.   I'll work on my sandbagging skills.  

[Victorv47]

Youre wrong here Victor. Everyone pays for track time. If we race or not. We all pay the same amount for practice. If I try to qualify and my car just dont work I will pull out and not race as well. Theres no reason Id want to stay in the race and tear to my car or anyones car worse. Thats exactly the same situation Brandon had. No I wasnt there but Ive heard from a few people Brandon refused to pay the racing fee. At the moment Brandon got a little heated. We all do a little in the moment. After things cooled down with Brandon he did pay it back. If you dont race you shouldnt have to turn marshal and I damn sure wouldnt either. So I would have done the same thing as he did. Work on the next class chassis. The race was on a different track and had zero affect of the outcome of the lmp race. We all need to work on our chassis and try to make them better and faster especially you, Victor. You fall off a lot and take people out and dont even realize it. In my opinion. Id be happy to help you with your chassis, but everybody needs to work on their stuff

I agree with you 100% on that I need to improve my driving skills. The problem I see, a person like me that is new to racing slot cars in a state level and there is no Novice/beginner Class. Just because I qualify in the Main A class because my car is fast does not mean Im a A main racer. I try my best not to make the A main for that reason. But give me some time to figure **** out and Ill be there with the top dogs. We all have to start at the bottom and work our way up. And yes I do appreciate many of the racers that have helped me improve my car and given me helpful driving skills. Im at Sebring raceway every Tuesday/Thursday nights , and Saturday mornings practicing,testing, and racing. I enjoy racing and the camaraderie between all the racers.

[Hot Slots]

In my opinion, the rule is trash. If you take offense to me calling it trash , you'll get over it. It's nothing personal against you, Rollin. But I'm not looking to beat around the bush. I express my opinion bluntly 99% of the time so that I don't send any mixed emotions. I don't bash racers, I help 99% of the people at the races, some don't want my help all the time. The tape would have helped you in GTP.

[Hot Slots]

This rule says race. I sent a car to tech but I didn't race.

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[Wizard Of Iz]

In my opinion, the rule is trash. If you take offense to me calling it trash , you'll get over it. It's nothing personal against you, Rollin. But I'm not looking to beat around the bush. I express my opinion bluntly 99% of the time so that I don't send any mixed emotions. I don't bash racers, I help 99% of the people at the races, some don't want my help all the time. The tape would have helped you in GTP.

 

No worries. I didn't take any of your remarks personally.  Notice that I said "not necessarily this conversation" when I was talking about personal remarks.  

 

If there's zero conversation about rules - or anything else - then there's zero improvement.  At the same time ... I've never been in favor of changing something just for the sake of changing something.  There should only be changes if it's truly an improvement for everyone or corrects a mistake.

 

BTW ... I think you're an incredibly helpful guy.  You've always been ready to share information with everyone in the room.  And, I truly do appreciate your advice .... even when I don't follow it. Don't stop making recommendations.  My GTP's issues were much more related to the driver than the chassis.  Can't believe that I left home with no Goody's powders for my back.

 

 

This rule says race. I sent a car to tech but I didn't race.

 

My take is that when you entered the car, you became a racer for that class.  And especially so when you took a qualifying lap.  Just my opinion.  And I applaud you for doing the right thing and paying the entry fee.

 

Might be something the BOD should clarify for 2025.  I usually jot some notes of stuff like this so I can prod Marcus, Ed, and Joe when they start talking about the next season.

 

There are times - especially at the end of the day - when I would gladly drop out of a class if it makes the program shorter.  Let's say there were 21 entries in GTP ... the way my back felt on Saturday, I would have gladly dropped out so that there would only be two Mains instead of three.  But I would probably do that before I took a qualifying lap.  In that scenario, I wouldn't want to be charged a race fee.