64 replies to this topic

[Tex]

I had previously read in these forums about electric train motors having their armature stacks "twisted" in a slight candy-cane fashion. This "twisting" is supposed to have smoothed out the acceleration of the trains.

[Rhino]

The DC196 was the first motor I attempted to purchase for scratchbuilding. I wound up with the DC196A instead. This was a great disappointment because you couldn't solder to the rear bracket.

It seemed that the 196 was in production a very short time. Anyone know how long?

Rhino

[don.siegel]

It seemed that the 196 was in production a very short time. Anyone know how long?

Rhino

HI Terry, good to see you here - and Merry Christmas!

Just to give you a general idea, the instruction sheets for the 196, 196A and 196B are dated 1963, 1964 and 1965. So the 196 was probably in production from a year to two at the most. Maybe Rocky or somebody would have more specific memories about this. Sure seemed like the 196 was around for awhile, but that's because all the columnists were always saying how hard they were to find!

Don

[Bill from NH]

The DC196 was the first motor I attempted to purchase for scratchbuilding. I wound up with the DC196A instead. This was a great disappointment because you couldn't solder to the rear bracket.

It seemed that the 196 was in production a very short time. Anyone know how long?

Rhino

Terry, great to see you on here again! We need to see you & your cars here more often. I can't help with your 196 question. I remember there was a 196a & a 196b. I never had either one, but I raced a 6001 Pittcan late 1968 & early 69. That one I still have.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

I don't remember the dates, and didn't keep paperwork! And problems.

In 61 to mid 63, I was living in the philippines. I had access to Pittman DC60 series because of the model train use. I belonged to the base train club because of that access. Hand me down motors!

Clark Air Base had 3 quansit s side by side with the walls breached for an enormous layout. An entire country. Did a lot of modeling but never ran a train. I did work out a few little "animations" where a slot car underbase with extra 703s would drag trucks and other vehicles on the layout surface.

Anyway, I bought a 196 in august 63 at a shop in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. As well as a scuttler. Soon after a A model. I did note with some motors the sheet would have a specific date like 4/63 or whatever. NASSRA and I think NAMRA had both decided to have two F1 classes. One specifically for the 196 and the other for the rest. There were a lot of "improved" bodies in F1 then to clear the larger DC60 and I think the 196 class was to bring the bodies back in scale. Proved unnecessary as the 196 rewinds were faster than the 60 size motors.

I should go back and read columns, because I don't know which parts were just correspondence with friends in the groups. By the end of 63 and early 64 I had gone entirely to cans except when running on plastic track.

Now, the 6001 did come out in early 66, but that is another story.

A lot of these memories are "tagged" in that they were coincient with things like major moves and new schools to give me an easy to remember timeline. Not "official I have the paperwork" memories.

Fate

[TSR]

OK, Pittman world experts and other rocket scientists (I recognize that I am not), whoteezthiss?

[don.siegel]

Is this a trick question, Philippe?

It's just a 196B with the rear axle bracket cut off and a couple brass brackers screwed on, minus its brushes....

So, do I win one of the Wallingford cars?

Merry Christmas by the way...

Don

[don.siegel]

And here's the Pittman 9003 "Boatmaster" I was referring to earlier. As the name indicates this was for model boats, but it was used on a few early slot drag cars. It's even heftier than a DC85 in fact.



Here's the same motor along with a recent addition to the collection; I got the wrong perspective on this photo so the motors look about the same size, but in fact the one in the back is probably twice as big as the 9003! Plus, it's an AC motor with an electromagnet, so not sure how this would be used on a slot track, or if it ever was... found this way, without any front wheels.
I've included a couple more shots of this motor. Similar in layout to the big Pittmans, but with a coil magnet instead of the perm mag. And check out those gears - from an Erector set?







Don

[don.siegel]

And in response to the earlier question about "twisted" stacks, I think this is what was referred to, the "skewed" stacks on the famous Lindsay model train motor, often used in early slot drag cars and a few road cars. You can see the skewed stacks in this shot....

[idare2bdul]

And in response to the earlier question about "twisted" stacks, I think this is what was referred to, the "skewed" stacks on the famous Lindsay model train motor, often used in early slot drag cars and a few road cars. You can see the skewed stacks in this shot....

OOPS, I threw out a couple of those thinking they weren't slot motors. Somebody might have wanted them.

[Horsepower]

Tell me you're joking..........

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

Somewhere in the boxes I have a couple of small pittmans sold as static power drives. The sort of thing you used on train layouts to run "animation" on your layout. I do not remember why I have them just that they are there and I didn't trade them.

Still in the box, I believe.

Geeze, Don, we have a lot of junk!

Fate

[don.siegel]

Ooops, I reorganized my Photobucket account, which removes the live links. Here's the Lindsay motor again..

[TSR]

It's just a 196B with the rear axle bracket cut off and a couple brass brackers screwed on, minus its brushes....

So, do I win one of the Wallingford cars?

No Joking, Don. The die-cast bracket that is bolted onto the motor (bolts missing) is CAST and has not been cut or filed in any way. The brass brackets are stamped, not hand made. What is it???

[don.siegel]

Je ne sais pas!

Lots of ideas spring to mind - and then just as quickly fade away... a special run for a prototype slot? a train version? sidewinder? Only Mr. Pittman knows for sure...

Are you sure the back axle bracket is cast that way and not just very, very carefully filed off?

There recently appeared a series of Strombecker Scuttlers that had I thought had the rear brackets filed off, but were released that way in fact, not sure why! Maybe the market seemed so huge at the time (ca 1965) that the manufacturers wanted to cover all the bases!

Don

[philsmith]

Could it be for use as a sidewinder, Philippe?
Those brackets would fit snugly between a couple of chassis frames.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

If the pittman hasn't been modified...I am baffled. I don't remember seeing it in the day. I did see a few of the 196bs modified this way and perhaps there was a replacement bit that I didn't notice. When the B came out, it really was not a competitive motor. That is the reason so many show up mint on the market.

As for the scuttlers modified that way. I DO remember seeing them. One of the weaknesses of the motor is flex on the carrier (have we chatted about this before?). Stromie had these modified scuttlers which were used in several fashions. I say this from memory having not done this myself. One was the flat end was asked for by the midwest racers to use in the old frames cast in zinc for the 195. One was that you could fit them inside some of the scaley chassis with the larger open frame motor. Third, a mod to fit them in the old stromebecker rtrs that used an open frame motor. But again, as memory has it, no documentation.

And by the time the corporation working pre-internet with the orientals got it done, no one was buying the cars or the motors. Again, an "too late" that shows up a lot

Fate

[Ecurie Martini]

For anyone who might be interested - a brief account of my discussions with Pittman can be found here:

Ecurie Martini History

So far as the 70X series goes - my recollections are that the first - 703 - had long, plain shafts and about a 4:1 gear ratio using a nylon spur gear (that would begin to slip with use and had to be pinned to the shaft - fortunately, the shafts were relatively soft and drilled easily.) the 704 was fitted with a brass spur that yielded a 3:1 ratio. It had shorter shafts that the 703 but shared the black finished pole pieces. The 705 was the first that I recall had a threaded axle. Unlike the 703-4 motors the pole pieces were plain steel and the nicely machined magnets of the earlier units were replaced with a nasty fractured-off chunk of magnet from some sort of bulk casting. I believe that the '05 motor also introduced a couple of tapped holes in the pole pieces to facilitate mounting. Up until this point, the pole pieces and the side brackets were steel and brass stampings. The 706 motor was a completely different beast with molded poles, die-cast side pieces and stamped brass frame members holding the two together. It is also just enough larger (wider) than the earlier motors so that only one of the cars I had built using the '03-'05 series would accommodate it. I did do a swap and, as I recall, it was clearly faster than its predecessors. Unfortunately, it also has threaded axles so, on the few occasions when I have used one (I've only built 3 1/24 cars in the past 12 years), I also need to go through the trouble of pressing out the original axle etc. (don't like threaded axles/wheels - so far as I am concerned, they are never square.

The 70X series was obviously built to a price, lacking the machined armature laminations and corresponding close, consistent arm/pole fit of the standard Pittman production. Most of the Pittman motors were 5 pole although I think that the purpose-built boat motors might have been 7 or 9 - for model marine application, good power at low revs is needed unless one fits a reduction gear.

The skewed poles as in the Lindsay motor were, indeed, aimed a smooth low speed operation - a mechanical solution to starting behavior rendered moot by the introduction of "pulsed power" (early implementation of PWM) for model train control.

EM

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

You haven't mentioned the gimbals before in conversation as you did in your history!

I tried a pair of them in my strombecker conversions and they were horrid failures, so I went back to pins!

I think I still have them. I remember seeing one of them in the Mercedes 196 box. Some years ago I decided I was going to restore that old beast, and started putting parts in it's own box for the effort. In that effort I found the discarded scaley gimbal I had briefly used.!

The first 704 I saw and owned had a threaded axle. And I think a cast magnet. The diff between the 704 and the 5 was the 4 had the 03 layout with the axle carrier to the rear, the 705 had the axle in the middle of the motor, and the 706 used screws to allow you to chose.

the problem with the threaded axles is that they start straight, but the steel is soft enough to be threaded, and it can bend!

That said, mine work well enough as I ran them then, with the threaded axles.

Fate

[don.siegel]

Al, Rocky

I believe the DC-704 was the first motor Pittman built purposefully for slot racing, along with the DC-196. I'm pretty sure it had the axle through the motor, and then when that didn't seem to be the best layout, Pittman came out with the 704a, with the axle behind the motor; this was the same layout they used on the DC-705. With the 706, or course, it was all screwed together and you could reverse the end plates to choose your layout!

This is from memory, and I don't have any MIB 704 or 705 models, so can't swear to it...

The threaded axle may not have been ideal, but like I said, I haven't really seen any of these bent, and it allowed a lot of people to get into slot racing very quickly and easily!

Don

[TSR]

Could it be for use as a sidewinder, Philippe?
Those brackets would fit snugly between a couple of chassis frames.

Phil,
At this time I am clueless... it is definitely a production item because the parts are stamped and cast. Now whotizzit?

[BWA]

Possibly a model train Turntable motor, or, some sort of Servo/actuater motor, possibly for a Pinball machine or Vending machine.

The model Train/Slot Car part of Pittman I think was a very small part of what they did, just like Koford, who, I believe, their main activity was rocket motor servos?????

I doubt it had ANYTHING to do with slot cars.

[don.siegel]

Good point Al, but since it's definitely the basic 196B, strictly a slot car motor, that would be kind of interesting that they used it for something else! (usually, it's an industrial motor adapted for slots, like the GE Dynamic, the Russkit 25, etc.)


Don

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

In the day, I bent several of the axles. And became adept at replacing them....except the commerical tracks opened making the 70Xs irrelevent! A few conventions ago, Al and I had a "70X" only race at Rad Trax on both the 1/32 flat track and the King. We handed out survivors we had! Fun times.

I know what you meant about the boxes, though. A few years ago, AL found some 706s mint and we both used them. I had, in the day, done the thing where the good motor migrated from car to car as needed. And NOW, I can afford for each car to have its own motor. The problem is that in addition to the easy to identify 706, I have a bunch of motors of the earlier designs who have no markings. I know some are the strombecker version and I THINK one is a RAM.

So, we work from aged memory.

Fate

[C. J. Bupgoo]

Bob;
     One of my older brothers was "into" Lionel trains in the late 50's - early 60's;  Myself, in the early '60's and to a MUCH lesser extent, as I was still of a "tender" age.  As I recall, his "upper-line" (higher-quality) Lionel "yard diesels" had some variation of a "padlock" Pittman installed;  I seem to recall a "tag line" of ".. with MAGNA-TRACTION" or something similar in Lionel's literature.  MY Lionel (NOTE: singular) was an "entry level" (i.e.:  MUCH less expensive), a reproduction (??) of a steam locomotive...  It didn't have ANYwhere NEAR the "heft" of his higher-quality units, so I'm guessing it probably had a DC-60 series...
     NOW...  I'm NOT condoning you P.O. the model RAILROADING "aficionado's"    to further expand your collection , buuuuut..        

P.S.: Excuse me while I call my attorney...