346 replies to this topic

[TSR]

Rick,
Mike's car was done with TUBING. We got a couple of those and that's what they are built with...

[dc-65x]

Hi Philippe,

I went by the R&C photo caption (which may or may not be "Korrect") that says brass rod. I think the text of the race report might suggest Morrissey was using tube in his chassis but, being a bit lazy and wanting a bit more weight and knowing that most wouldn't know the evil of my ways....brass rod won out .

[Mike Steube]

Rick, I remember being one of the first, maybe the first, to run a chassis built out of the bronze/brass brazing rod in the R&C races. I had built a few chassis' out of brass rod before going to the stronger bronze brazing rod. 1/16th tubing (pin tubing) was the material of choice at the time. Wall blasting and bending the car would put you out of the race. Tubing cracks or breaks when you try to straighten bent rails. I found out that I could bend brass and bronze rails back into shape after a bad crash. This made it possible to keep racing and not have to drop out. Another bonus was the bronze rails are heavier. My dad's motors were always getting faster. I found that the easiest way to deal with the faster motors was to make the chassis heavier and stronger. The Chappy in the pic should be brass or bronze. Mike Morrissey's car would have been tubing. I believe Mike M. started using brass in some of his heavy weights in R&C race #5.

[Hworth08]

OK boyz,

I got caught by this rule:

The drop arm maybe no wider that .750".

During the ice and snow I built a 5 railer similiar to Mike Morrisey's. The INSIDE rails are soldered to the OUTSIDE of an accurate reproduction Russkit bracket. The outside two rails of the drop arm are a "confortable" distance from the edge of the 3/32nds pivot tube but the drop arm measures .880 wide.

No problem to fix but just be aware of .750 rule while building your drop arms.

[TSR]

I went by the R&C photo caption (which may or may not be "Korrect") that says brass rod.

Rick, no doubt that rod is better in every respect!
There are several cars in the LASCM from that time frame that appear to also be built with brass rod, until close inspection reveals that they were in fact... tubing!

[loudspeaker]

I think this is a fantastic idea! I remember building and racing these cars
in the day. I will be there for this race. I raced in one Car Model race at
Don's Raceway in the summer of 1967. I could not believe I was racing
with guys I really looked up to. It was a experience I never will forget as
a seventeen year old kid from Dallas.

I did look up the 1966 R&C rules and the 1967 Car Model rules:

I did notice that the Rear Wheel width's do differ:
The R&C rules state "1/2 inch width" The Car Model rules state
"5/8" total width, however a maximum of 1/2" tread width
is allowed to touch the track". This accomodates a 1/16"
radius on the edges of the tire.

Dale Jones

Katy, Texas

Hi Dale, were you one of the racers who drove out with George (?) in the Porsche? Sandy

[Bill from NH]

The INSIDE rails are soldered to the OUTSIDE of an accurate reproduction Russkit bracket.

Okay Don, tell us something about the repro Russkit bracket. Is it something you made using the Russkit dimensions?

[tonyp]

I remember building with tubing for a long time before going to brass rod. I never used bronze rod as I never knew there was such a thing until Retro started. We used to use the K&S brass rod. I think they were like .05 for a 12" piece.

[Bill from NH]

All 12" pieces of K&S piano wire was 5¢ in those days too.

[Hworth08]

Okay Don, tell us something about the repro Russkit bracket. Is it something you made using the Russkit dimensions?

Hi Bill,

I did use a flattened Russkit bracket to make a gig for drilling the bracket. And I had to make 4 "trial and error" jigs to get one right.

I talked to my cousin that owns a complete machine shop about making a "proper" jig that would punch all 7 (Falcon and 16D) holes and remove the un-wanted brass that would only need to be bent to make a perfect Russkit bracket. He said figure on a $1000 for a heat treated jig with replaceable punch pins IF he got it right the first time depending on the quality of the brake used to bend the axle arms.

After measuring, I've found the Russkit brackets vary a bit depending mostly on how "sharp" the 90 degree is made.

[Bill from NH]

Thanks Don!

[dc-65x]

Rick, I remember being one of the first, maybe the first, to run a chassis built out of the bronze/brass brazing rod in the R&C races. I had built a few chassis' out of brass rod before going to the stronger bronze brazing rod. 1/16th tubing (pin tubing) was the material of choice at the time. Wall blasting and bending the car would put you out of the race. Tubing cracks or breaks when you try to straighten bent rails. I found out that I could bend brass and bronze rails back into shape after a bad crash. This made it possible to keep racing and not have to drop out. Another bonus was the bronze rails are heavier. My dad's motors were always getting faster. I found that the easiest way to deal with the faster motors was to make the chassis heavier and stronger. The Chappy in the pic should be brass or bronze. Mike Morrissey's car would have been tubing. I believe Mike M. started using brass in some of his heavy weights in R&C race #5.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your memories about the R&C race cars. Your insight about vintage Pro cars is always much appreciated .

Rick

[TSR]

Hi Rick,
This car, built by the late Bill Steube for the 5th Rod & Custom Series race, is mostly built from 1/16" brass tubing with some brass rod.



We also have several Team Russkit cars dating from 1966 built with brass tubing as well as earlier ones built with stainless-steel tubing. I am not sure of when the change to brass rod happened, but I suppose that the Morrissey heavyweights were the leading designs deleting brass tubing for the rod so as to apply more weight low where it counts.

I built this one in 1966 also all with brass tubing:



The only real difference with period American cars is that we were using the motors with can-side drive to place more weight over the rear wheels.

[Hworth08]

Philippe,

Good to see your 1966 car!

To the folks that weren't around then... Philippe's car looks a LOT more like what you'd see at the track! If a chassis showed promise but wasn't quite "there", some quick and often not too good looking changes were made, such as Philippe moving his drop arm weight futher to the rear. And not unusal for a body to have numerous pin holes from being on different chassis.

That gave these old piles class!

[tonyp]

Those old bodies were so thick they would last forever, or until they curled up from wintergreen too much to run anymore.

[TSR]

Indeed!

Don, as I look at that Chaparral 2D of mine, it looks like I used 3/32' tubing for the main rails, surrounded by 1/16" tubing everywhere else... I did not remember that. The car is at the LASCM as well as my surviving old piles and motors that you can see HERE.

Mike Steube has exactly the right idea of bringing back these cars as a vintage-racing class, even if modern motors are included for practical purposes, and is right to limit the design to what they WERE and not to what one wishes they can be with 40 years of added knowledge. Go Mike!

[dc-65x]

I was thinking of building a sort of prototype of a R&C GP retromobile. I have some nice Tom Anderson repop Lancer Ferrari 158's, Lotus 25's and Brabham's I could use. I went to Tom's web site to see what else he had and his sight is indeed down. Does anyone know if he is still making bodies and if so how to get in touch with him??????

[gascarnut]

Rick,

Perhaps you are still trying Tom's old site. Try this:

http://home.comcast.net/~ch2a/vsc.html

[Mike Steube]

Mike Morrissey asked me about the brass rod I was using. I told him to starting using it. He did.

[dc-65x]

Rick,

Perhaps you are still trying Tom's old site. Try this:

http://home.comcast.net/~ch2a/vsc.html

Thanks Dennis!

R&C Super Skinny GP prototype retromobile parts ordering time

[Hworth08]

All nice cars Philippe!!

My most "creative" frame I remember used 5/32nds tubing that was straight and used pill blocks to hold the front axle. You could use BBs (automatic weight transfer) or spaced 1/8th inch brass rod to change the weight around.

Didn't work worth a dime on commercial tracks! I learned the idea from one of our basement (4X16 oval)racers that cleaned house with such a frame for a time.

A class for the early mis-fits?

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

Keeping them running, the oldies that is, the big problem with the bodies is a bit odd. Besides the dreaded "KURL', what happens with time is that one day, playing, a minor tap, or rattling around in the box or something, the body will somtimes just shatter. Or do a popping sound with a long crack or cracks running all over the body.

Pretty frustrating.

A couple conventions ago, someone was runnning one of mine, and was horrified when the body shattered on him leaving little bits of painted buterate all over the track.

Fate