371 replies to this topic

[Ron Hershman]

The beginning of the end.

[team burrito]

Remember the Asp GT-12 chassis(es)? I'll wait for the third generation.

[Larry Mattingly]

Doesn't have to be...

This isn't the USRA.

The IRRA controls its own destiny. Rewrite the rules to place a cap on technology.

1:1 racing organizations do it all the time. Why is slot racing any different?

LM

[Jay Guard]

The beginning of the end.

Nope, merely the end of what was ALREADY begun by the JK and Warmack kits.

[Dominator]

Love the design, but it is definitely not within the spirit of scratch building. All anyone can do now is wait for the powers that be for the thumbs up or thumbs down. Both the IRRA and D3 have done a pretty good job up to this point and I'm sure this will be lots of discussion for approval. Unfortunately when the rules are read, the chassis does seem to follow them.

[Justin A. Porter]

Well, I'll go against the grain on this and say that I like the chassis a ton, and that if IRRA decides I can't buy the kit, I'll save these pictures and replicate the design with my jeweler's saw and some plates of brass.

Honestly, I thought that the reason everyone wanted to have a "scratch-building" class was because they didn't want to be locked into what the manufacturers were providing and to have their own go at building a better mousetrap. Well, Slick 7 just put their mousetrap out. Isn't anyone confident they can do better?

[Hworth08]

Don't be fooled into thinking an EDM cut frame will turn IRRA into EuroSport racing. We tried Falcons in GT-12 chassis 3 or 4 years ago. Well built GT-12 cars turned 3.2 second laps and were flat-out 4 of the track's 6 corners. With a Falcon motor, the same chassis and body body was a 5 plus second car that you had to drive every corner. The Falcons just aren't fast enough to make a GTP body work even in a 75 gram car.

If the Slick 7 frame does become legal lap time will remain about the same. The major difference will be a frame that's easier for a newbie to assemble. And expect the price to be about $37 for a kit.

[jimht]

Bob K. said:

raceway owners words of wisdom

I built several thousand chassis before becoming a "Raceway Owner" & actually have never stopped cranking out "scratchbuilt" chassis.
No doubt this entitles me to wear both hats...but the issue is not whether the chassis kits are spiritually correct.
I said when all this started that it wouldn't go anywhere without readily available chassis kits.
Bunch of scaredy-cat wusses, chassis kits are nothing but fodder for the creative mind.
How many of you turkeys are painting your own bodies & grinding your own tires?

[brnursebmt]

Jim makes a good point. As someone said earlier, I love the look of the chassis, but it is not what I signed on for either. I said when the first kit came out it was going to be down hill from here on.....money to be made. I guess it really does not matter to me either way. If it brings in more racers it's a good thing. I agree with what Jay said also...this did not start with Slick 7 or Warmack for that matter. Bryan was just trying to give D3 a jump start. He no longer makes his chassis.

It just makes me feel bad when you spend many many hours building a chassis and something like this hits the track that can be built perfect in a fraction of the time. Now why did I buy that chassis jig?

[Phil Irvin]

As much as I like the Slick 7 product line, if that chassis is approved by the IRRA governing body for regional and national competition, then true retro will cease to exist, and will surely mark the beginning of the end. I knew we would find a way to screw this up eventually. If you want to run EDM cut Eurosport type cars there is a organization for that, its called ISRA. There is nothing scratch built about that chassis. Make it a retro pro if anything, but please stay to the original intent of the organization in regards to Can-Am and GT Coupe. Those wheels do not need anymore grease guys. Nice Eurosport chassis though.

DITTO 3 Not for me.....I did not see anything like that in 66.

Make it a sidewinder and it becomes a nice GT12 and it is nice

PHIL.

[4laneron]

Jim makes a good point. As someone said earlier, I love the look of the chassis, but it is not what I signed on for either. I said when the first kit came out it was going to be down hill from here on.....money to be made. I guess it really does not matter to me either way. If it brings in more racers it's a good thing. I agree with what Jay said also...this did not start with Slick 7 or Warmack for that matter. Bryan was just trying to give D3 a jump start. He no longer makes his chassis.

It just makes me feel bad when you spend many many hours building a chassis and something like this hits the track that can be built perfect in a fraction of the time. Now why did I buy that chassis jig?

Bobby I no that you will be building 4 new chassis right.

[brnursebmt]

You got it! I have 2 on the jig as we speak.

[TSR]

Rudy Garriga is a good person and a friend. I really enjoy D3 and retro racing and have promoted it as much as I could for the past 3 years. But if this chassis is ever approved for D3 racing (I have no say in other organizations), then I will quit the hobby for good.
It goes the same in fact for ANY kit, not only the Slick 7.

D3 and subsequent retro racing organizations had for purpose to let the racers BUILD their chassis. It was and is the BASIC philosophy of D3. Bryan Warmack who is an incredibly intelligent person pushed the envelope a bit with his cars, then built his kits not for profit (actually at a loss) but only to get more people in the hobby and give them a tool to begin with. However, the basic design was still relatively acceptable in spite of its more modern features. We at D3 should have put a stop to it right there and then. The mistake was to accept this kit and then the JK, and it is hard to shut the lid once the Pandora box has been opened. Bryan himself has ceased to produced his kit.

I agree 100% with Matt Bruce and others who are of the same opinion: the Slick 7 kit is simply NOT in the spirit of retro racing, even if to the letter.
For a raceway owner, it means more sales and profit, but for retro racing, I can see it as the beginning of the end.

[Rick]

If the IRRA and D3 approve those types of chassis, we might as well just put retro bodies on JK 11's. I am with PDL. Put a fork in retro. Its a shame, but the SCM have influenced this end of the hobby and will ruin yet another fun aspect of slot cars. SCM does not mean just wing car racers either, pro scale racers are just as bad..........................

[redbackspyder]

Rudy Garriga is a good person and a friend. I really enjoy D3 and retro racing and have promoted it as much as I could for the past 3 years. But if this chassis is ever approved for D3 racing (I have no say in other organizations), then I will quit the hobby for good.
It goes the same in fact for ANY kit, not only the Slick 7.

D3 and subsequent retro racing organizations had for purpose to let the racers BUILD their chassis. It was and is the BASIC philosophy of D3. Bryan Warmack who is an incredibly intelligent person pushed the envelope a bit with his cars, then built his kits not for profit (actually at a loss) but only to get more people in the hobby and give them a tool to begin with. However, the basic design was still relatively acceptable in spite of its more modern features. We at D3 should have put a stop to it right there and then. The mistake was to accept this kit and then the JK, and it is hard to shut the lid once the Pandora box has been opened. Bryan himself has ceased to produced his kit.

I agree 100% with Matt Bruce and others who are of the same opinion: the Slick 7 kit is simply NOT in the spirit of retro racing, even if to the letter.
For a raceway owner, it means more sales and profit, but for retro racing, I can see it as the beginning of the end.

If you want a real opinion of these chassis for D3, just ask Mike Steube what he said at the Checkpoint Cup about these after seeing Duran run one . Mike's words were all that was necessary. Or ask Paul Sterett. If it were not for Bryan Warmack , there would be four guys hacking around on Saturdays at BPR wondering if slot racing was still alive somewhere else in Southern California. And Bryan was the first guy to embrace the JK Kit after it came out. PDL is right, Mike Steube is right, but that is just an opinion, I may be wrong

[Matt Bruce]

I see a change coming in the rule which allows EDM cut components etc. Being active in retro and ISRA style racing, I see that rule as being the main difference between the two. If that chassis is deemed legal in retro, you can kiss 60 to 70% of retro participants goodbye. Reason being that you just took the main reason they came back to slot racing away from them. For them there is no difference between that chassis and a flexi chassis. That will easily stop the growth of retro in its tracks, believe me. History will repeat itself.

[TSR]

If it were not for Bryan Warmack , there would be four guys hacking around on Saturdays at BPR wondering if slot racing was still alive somewhere else in Southern California.

Mill, this is not exactly correct or fair. Bryan came on board after a few races had been run. We were 13 at the very first race, and all had hand-built chassis. We were 16 at the second race, still all hand-built jobs. Bryan came in at the third race (19 entrants) but not with his own car yet. 26 entrants in the next race, Bryan still not with his own car, all hand-built. And it goes on. You can see the whole history in the race reports.
So it is a bit unfair to think that there would only be "four guys".

In fact with this new class of Jail Doors cars, we are already a full field and no race has been run yet.

BUILDING these cars from scratch is what has attracted so many in D3 and retro racing. Indeed Bryan's chassis kits have helped a lot to push the ball further, but most use it as a BASE for building their idea of a car. I do not believe that the S7 kit as well as the other I saw do not serve the same purpose.

The main issue here is that retro racing organizations should in my opinion, refuse and oppose technologies that have pretty much destroyed or severely damaged the hobby in the first place for most racers and potential racers, to the point that most turned away from it.
D3 was begun to go BACK to the time when errors were made, and is trying to keep going in a more sane direction. Is has worked well so far. Until now.

[brnursebmt]

I see a lot of Jay Guard in this chassis. This chassis is very close to Jay's latest can am car. The difference being that Jay spent a lot of time hand cutting his. Rudy is saving those less skilled a lot of time, as did Bryan Warmack and JK. I still don't agree with it but it will get more people going faster and more interested. I suppose thats a good thing.

[team burrito]

How many of you turkeys are painting your own bodies & grinding your own tires?

I do & I build my own chassis too. This was based on the Lee Gilbert eurosport design, all cut by hand (really).

[68Caddy]

Russ
That is beautiful, how does it run?
Got some more chassis to show of?


Nesta

[Basil]

That chassis is not in the spirit of retro in any way,shape,or form.Neither of those two new kits should be legal.It looks like a brass inline GT 12 car.Let it in and its over.

[slotcarone]

Well said Basil--I agree 100% with you, Matt Bruce and Larry M. on this one!!! The BOD needs to put a stop to this type of design now!!! I know people don't like to see comparisons to 1/1 racing but there must be a reason they still use carburetors in NASCAR!!!! We can't let the manufacturers start dictating whats to the letter of the rules. IMHO this kit needs to not be approved!!!

[Mark Wampler]

This setup should be mass produced and marketed as a Flexi Chassis. I would probably do well. Its not D3/Retro material whatsoever.

[redbackspyder]

Mill, this is not exactly correct or fair. Bryan came on board after a few races had been run. We were 13 at the very first race, and all had hand-built chassis. We were 16 at the second race, still all hand-built jobs. Bryan came in at the third race (19 entrants) but not with his own car yet. 26 entrants in the next race, Bryan still not with his own car, all hand-built. And it goes on. You can see the whole history in the race reports.
So it is a bit unfair to think that there would only be "four guys".

In fact with this new class of Jail Doors cars, we are already a full field and no race has been run yet.

BUILDING these cars from scratch is what has attracted so many in D3 and retro racing. Indeed Bryan's chassis kits have helped a lot to push the ball further, but most use it as a BASE for building their idea of a car. I do not believe that the S7 kit as well as the other I saw do not serve the same purpose.

The main issue here is that retro racing organizations should in my opinion, refuse and oppose technologies that have pretty much destroyed or severely damaged the hobby in the first place for most racers and potential racers, to the point that most turned away from it.
D3 was begun to go BACK to the time when errors were made, and is trying to keep going in a more sane direction. Is has worked well so far. Until now.

Philippe, I was being facetious, but I do find it a bit puzzling that there were 26 guys before Bryan had built his first car, and we average about 23 on the flat track, less on the Kingleman , and just recently hit into the 40's on the King. Now, I know a lot more people got involved after the Warmack kit, so did some quit ?

[Jay Guard]

Nobody has yet answered the question of why a stamped and formed (i.e. brass flexi) chassis like the JK is OK while a chassis cut from a flat sheet of brass, that has to be completely assembled and soldered together, and which totally meets the rules is not. I say if you ban one kit than you HAVE to ban all the kits. There is simply no fundamental difference between a stamped and formed car and a cut (EDM'd) one.