156 replies to this topic

[TSR]

Any track owner that doesn't want a spec tire that he sells to the racer that day is just stupid...

That's funny. I know a president of a country that made such a remark about another group of individuals in society. He kind of apologized about it.
Will you apologize to raceway owners who disagree with your premise too?

[redbackspyder]

Jay, once again Thanks for all the good information that you provided. Your insight is greatly appreciated. So, D3, is the Speed Rubber OFFICIALLY banned from all D3 use ?

[Larry Mattingly]

That's funny. I know a president of a country that made such a remark about another group of individuals in society. He kind of apologized about it.
Will you apologize to raceway owners who disagree with your premise too?

Don't hold your breath...

The President of the country 'was' wrong...

I'm not...

I think it has been proven by more folks than me that a spec tire sold by the raceway the day of the race to competitors will result in the track making more money...

But, hey, I really don't care. I don't own a toy car raceway...

LM

[Tim Neja]

Sounds like D3 has solved the issue and I"m hoping we can use their tests to solve it with our other class's as well. This is something that should be done at BPR so that we don't have the problems we've experienced in the past. It's a simple solution-- it doesn't eliminate any manufacturer's, just a rubber compound that has been proven to create problems by providing an "unfair" advantage to those that use it.

Sounds simple huh?

T

Don't see any reason to run a "Spec" tire? I don't see your dog in the hunt Larry!

[MSwiss]

I'd sooner have racers go to their box or go to counter for the tire they need for their car
and the existing track conditions.

I don't want guys having to try to rebuild their car at the race to work with the spec tire
chosen and possible changing conditions.

At big races, out-of-towners, especially the late arrivers, would feel they are at even
a bigger disadvantage to the locals.

[slotcarone]

Mike Swiss makes a lot of sense !!!!!!

[The Bugman]

and tho not very often,,,,,,,,this time ol Tim N.has said it like it is,so has SWISS,both IMO are correct too,,,,,,the rest of you guys thruout the land comments,,,,,whewwwwwww,,,,,

[Phil Smith]

I agree. Mike has made some good comments in this thread.

I don't understand why a track owner would stock Speed Rubber. It sounds like it just screws up the track.

[TSR]

Please click HERE.

[Phil Smith]

Clever! The board members won't have to buy tires for months!

[TSR]

Years actually.

Anymore smartass comments?

[JimF]

Clever! The board members won't have to buy tires for months!

Yes.......clearly this is true. Nor will anybody else. Had this ruling gone the opposite way, the result would have been that everyone would have had to buy LOTS of tires immediately in order to be competitive. LOTS of tires...!!!!

Dallas Racer has seen through this thinly disguised plot by the So Cal BOD. Congrats on your brilliance sir..

[The Bugman]

i applaud the D3 BoD's for this quik decision,,,we got a good thing going at BPR with our total D3 racing programs with regular type tires,,
"we dont need no steenkin speed rubber here"

[Foamy]

Any track owner that doesn't want a spec tire that he sells to the racer that day is just stupid... Do the math...

My math. . .
Spec tire raceday. . .
Racer X buys 3 pair of spec tires for todays race ( 1 for practice, 2 for the race). Track has the sale of 3 pair of tires.

Nonspec raceday. . .
Racer X buys 1 of 3 or 4 different tires. Finds which he likes that day, and buys a couple more for the day. Track has sales of 6+ pairs.

Now, isn't the profit from 6+ greater than the profit from 3?

Of course the manufacturers don't want them... unless they are the spec tire chosen...

Of course the manufacturers don't want them...It's prior restraint of trade and they can lawyer up and get it overthrown. It's happened before in this hobby business, so don't tell me it can't happen.

[Larry Mattingly]

I'd sooner have racers go to their box or go to counter for the tire they need for their car
and the existing track conditions.

I don't want guys having to try to rebuild their car at the race to work with the spec tire
chosen and possible changing conditions.

At big races, out-of-towners, especially the late arrivers, would feel they are at even
a bigger disadvantage to the locals.

Mike:

Question: On your flat track... how many different compounds do your racers use?

Hey, as I said, do what you want. It is your sandbox.


Tim:

What dog would you be referring to in this case?

LM

[Larry Mattingly]

My math. . .
Spec tire raceday. . .
Racer X buys 3 pair of spec tires for todays race ( 1 for practice, 2 for the race). Track has the sale of 3 pair of tires.

Nonspec raceday. . .
Racer X buys 1 of 3 or 4 different tires. Finds which he likes that day, and buys a couple more for the day. Track has sales of 6+ pairs.

Now, isn't the profit from 6+ greater than the profit from 3?



Of course the manufacturers don't want them...It's prior restraint of trade and they can lawyer up and get it overthrown. It's happened before in this hobby business, so don't tell me it can't happen.

Foamy:

Have Hershman explain the math to you...

You need to do more research on 'restraint of trade' laws...

The use of spec tires, engines and other components is done all the time in in 1:1 racing...

At my own track I have a spec tire rule in our 410 sprint car division. One supplier... one compound. Saves the racers tons of money. And, OMG, they have to adapt to changing track conditions using the same tire all evening.

Several racing groups require the use of only the GM 604 crate engines.

How many companies supply tires for the NASCAR Cup series? NASCAR supplies spec shocks to teams on the super speedways etc.

The right for tracks and and organizations to set their own rules and standards has been challenged often in the courts. Unsuccessfully, I might add.

Go ahead and lawyer up ... you'll lose.

And, perhaps a little closer to home: Why aren't companies filing lawsuits now against the various retro organizations who mandate 'spec' motors and components for certain classes?

LM

[Ron Hershman]

Foamy:

Have Hershman explain the math to you...

You need to do more research on 'restraint of trade' laws...

The use of spec tires, engines and other components is done all the time in in 1:1 racing...

At my own track I have a spec tire rule in our 410 sprint car division. One supplier... one compound. Saves the racers tons of money. And, OMG, they have to adapt to changing track conditions using the same tire all evening.

Several racing groups require the use of only the GM 604 crate engines.

How many companies supply tires for the NASCAR Cup series? NASCAR supplies spec shocks to teams on the super speedways etc.

The right for tracks and and organizations to set their own rules and standards has been challenged often in the courts. Unsuccessfully, I might add.

Go ahead and lawyer up ... you'll lose.

And, perhaps a little closer to home: Why aren't companies filing lawsuits now against the various retro organizations who mandate 'spec' motors and components for certain classes?

LM

Many years ago either Hoosier or Goodyear was involved in a restraint of free trade lawsuit that went to Federal Court. No one won, the raceway still had a spec tire.

It's not restraint of free trade if all MFG's are offered a chance to bid or whatever. In some cases there is no competition so there is no restraint issues.

Nascar has a "contract" with the tire supplier/Goodyear to Nascar. No restraint of free trade in that.

[jimht]

This business of harping on raceway profitability as justification for something is irritating.
Please stop it.

Most limitations are about saving money for the racer, not about making more for the raceway.
Mandating Ti22 bodies, for instance, would simplify things considerably.
Want to do that?

If a restriction gets more people playing, the raceway automatically makes more money.

I'm not promoting spec tires; just pointing out that it's more important that the end result promote racing rather than raceways.

[TSR]

Allowing those "funny" tires would certainly have reduced the number of players. But at this time, the D3 Board of Directors feels that a spec tire is simply not needed.
Most D3 racers use either JK or Alpha natural rubber tires, some treated, some untreated, with different hub sizes of their own choice. This is what is available over the counter, and I am sure that there are others too.
Why tamper with what works well?
The Retro Pro race yesterday was the first with officially banned tires. No one had any traction problems but team CORT had a bit too much of it!

[idare2bdul]

The Free World is now safe.

[TSR]

From you?

[Larry Mattingly]

Many years ago either Hoosier or Goodyear was involved in a restraint of free trade lawsuit that went to Federal Court. No one won, the raceway still had a spec tire.

It's not restraint of free trade if all MFG's are offered a chance to bid or whatever. In some cases there is no competition so there is no restraint issues.

Nascar has a "contract" with the tire supplier/Goodyear to Nascar. No restraint of free trade in that.

The tire company was M & H...

You are correct, they lost in court.

LM

[Noose]

Allowing those "funny" tires would certainly have reduced the number of players. But at this time, the D3 Board of Directors feels that a spec tire is simply not needed.
Most D3 racers use either JK or Alpha natural rubber tires, some treated, some untreated, with different hub sizes of their own choice. This is what is available over the counter, and I am sure that there are others too.
Why tamper with what works well?
The Retro Pro race yesterday was the first with officially banned tires. No one had any traction problems but team CORT had a bit too much of it!

And that is exactly how I feel for IRRA Retro East guys too.

[TSR]

Noose,
Apparently and according to Mike Boemker, the Free World is safe from you too.

[Phil Smith]

Years actually.

Anymore smartass comments?

Umm...well...lets see...maybe...no, no...wait a minute...uh...I guess not!

Yes.......clearly this is true. Nor will anybody else. Had this ruling gone the opposite way, the result would have been that everyone would have had to buy LOTS of tires immediately in order to be competitive. LOTS of tires...!!!!

Dallas Racer has seen through this thinly disguised plot by the So Cal BOD. Congrats on your brilliance sir..

I'm questioning my brilliance Jim, because I don't understand your post.