59 replies to this topic

[Ron Hershman]

but decided to let someone else be the trouble maker...

Dam I missed my chance????

[Ron Hershman]

I believe Rob is referring to Howie's Can Am car. The front portion of the chassis has clear tape added. I would say as long as it's .015" clearance (as Dennis Samson posted), it's ok.

Nothing more than skids.......ala Flexi Car technology comes retro racing.

Rick's right..... will never fly in IRRA and I recall this being tried at a retro race in Chicago which led to the racer getting busted cheating the rules....... to cut his car in half.

[Ron Hershman]

Hi Rob,
Yes, that's allowed as long as it clears 15-thou...

Before or after tech????

[TSR]

I don't think that us, poor D3 mortals, are smart enough to compare our tricks to that of Ron. We are but mere amateurs, basically geriatric have-been from another era. We race strictly because we still like to do it, and are just having fun.
This car was built by Bryan Warmack, who does not have a cheating bone in his entire body. The tape, that is probably less than 2-thou thick, is simply there to avoid direct contact of the chassis pan in the banking. As long as it clears, what's the problem? Is someone afraid that Bryan could (forget the thought) REMOVE the tape, and by such gain that enormous advantage from the 2 or 3-thou clearance diff?
We in D3, do not think of things like that, it is simply too complex for us.

[Ron Hershman]

I don't think that us, poor D3 mortals, are smart enough to compare our tricks to that of Ron. We are but mere amateurs, basically geriatric have-been from another era. We race strictly because we still like to do it, and are just having fun.
This car was built by Bryan Warmack, who does not have a cheating bone in his entire body. The tape, that is probably less than 2-thou thick, is simply there to avoid direct contact of the chassis pan in the banking. As long as it clears, what's the problem? Is someone afraid that Bryan could (forget the thought) REMOVE the tape, and by such gain that enormous advantage from the 2 or 3-thou clearance diff?
We in D3, do not think of things like that, it is simply too complex for us.

Not my tricks.......... if the tape is added after tech say after the first heat during the pitting time, it is a huge advantage as it stops the car from tipping in the corners and is basically cheating if the tape is added after tech or the racing starts and the clearance becomes less than .015" and that's against the rules right?

It has nothing to do with who built the car. I don't even know who raced the car.

Like I said..... in Chicago we had a racer who teched in without the tape to get the clearance and then when we were getting ready to start the race we noticed that tape had been added to the front to prevent the car from tipping out and going faster in the turns. Once the racer was asked to remove it, he simply cut his car in two.

How do you know if that is .002" tape or .010" lexan double stick taped on the bottom????

While you old farts in D3 do not think of complex things like that....those young scale racers do.

[Josh Crutchfield]

The winning can am car looks like it came right out of the Hershman paintshop.

As always and excellent race report...

Josh

[TSR]

Ron,
That's too intellectual for me, sorry!

[Ron Hershman]

The winning can am car looks like it came right out of the Hershman paintshop.

Josh.... while I have been told I need to "set the standard" it would appear that I have as more and more are following my standard of painting.

[Matt Bruce]

So thats why he cut his car in two. I thought he kept getting tossed at tech and just had enough. I`ve folded a few into hot dog buns over the years but never chopped one in half like that especially not before I drove the thing and proved it was a pile of crap.

[68Caddy]

Ron so let me ask how much diffrence would a little piece of lexan like that make in a race? I think it comes down to skills and not about small piece of lexan.
Sorry I don't think that is a great concern here.


Nesta

[Bryan Warmack]

What's the point, why not just drop the front of the chassis down to the .015?

Howie Ursaner ran the EXACT car in question at the recent Sano in Chicago with the .005 urethane tape strips on the front pans. I have been doing this ever since I sent some cars with Paul Sterrett, Tore Anderson, Philippe and Howie to the D3 race at Mid America Raceway in Chicago several years ago. When the cars returned I noticed that all of them had been fitted with small tape strips on the front of the pans that I had not installed and I asked Chris Gallegos at BPR what they were. He said they probably were added to protect the track in the bank as the cars were so low. I have been running them for years now on the King track as the track protection certainly made sense and maybe they helped as low friction outriggers. Who knows? I have never failed tech. One could just as easily BEND the front pan ears down slightly if cheating was their intention. Don't tell Duran

[Mark Wampler]

Good idea to provide some front pan protection. I think I'll try a version. Mask of the corners and spray several coats of clear lacquer and then the boys in IRRA won't know the difference.

[Mark Wampler]

Won't fly in IRRA, because NOTHING is permitted below the main rails.

Ah, that's why hypoid brackets are so popular on the right coast

[Ron Hershman]

Ah, that's why hypoid brackets are so popular on the right coast

We run hypoid brackets and nothing hangs below the main rails.

Your point is???

[Larry Mattingly]

Ahh... yet another major rule difference between D3 and the IRRA. Tape...

I think IRRA rules frustrate ISRA-type scale racers...lol

Just like the high-tech NASCAR stuff... Used to improve the handling of the car by adding, or removing duct tape.

Ron is correct, however, those type of things make a huge difference.

LM

[TSR]

Ron, ignore him, he is confused.

[Mark Wampler]

We run hypoid brackets and nothing hangs below the main rails.

Your point is???

The Big point is lower CG overall The motor can snuggle down low with the main rail along with everything else that can't go lower

I think there is at least a perceived advantage in that the gear configuration allows for better tire grip during acceleration.

I think generally, guys out here prefer conventional brackets. You will notice Duran's bracket is conventional, but didn't stop him from doing 316 laps on the King

[Ron Hershman]

Mark...... We have been testing this alot lately. Both P-S and FK motors.

I have a car that has a hypoid bracket where the motor sits low in the car, this bracket has been "hogged" out a bit to allow the motor to be raised like a conventional bracket. We put a .025" piece of brass under the motor when soldering the motor into the car to get it up high and in the conventional height/position.

I have tested this car multiple times on different tracks with the same motor high and then lowered.

I have seen no difference in speed, lap times nor handling no matter what height the motor sits.

[Mark Wampler]

Remember Ron, perception IS reality. An isloated test ground doesn't prove all testing grounds. As you have stated, hypoid setups are in vogue on the right coast typically and that being because of the IRRA rule of nothing can be suspended below the main rail. IMO.

If there is no difference in performance, then why go through the hassle that some of us (several of us) with stripped out crowns and raspy gear mesh? Now if you want to open a thread and educate us, then this might be a good time to illustrate proper gear run in on hypoid setups. I have some matches to light if that's a clue

Its all good I would say that most of us out here prefer conventional brackets with aligned motor shaft/rear axle.

[Ron Hershman]

I have had no problems ( knock on wood ) with stripping gears nor have I lost one in a race.

No secrets here........ I would have to show in person how I set the mesh....can't really explain it

[Mark Wampler]

No secrets here........ I would have to show in person how I set the mesh....can't really explain it

Ahh c'mon Ron, give us a class. You can do it

[Noose]

I'm like Ron in that I have never lost a gear and always have smooth gear meshes with both Hypoid and non-hypod set-ups. Showing how to do it is good and maybe we can do a little video on YouTubula or something.
1. Make sure the axle spins completely free in the bushings or bearings.
2. I make sure the fat end of the angled pinion is towards the motor AND that the teeth of the crown touch the pinion just ahead of the rear of the pinion. Some like it in the front but i have seen more guys blow gears that way.
3. Set the crown against the pinion and lightly lock the set screw.
4. Turn the axle to see if there is some play all around. Almost all of the Parma crown gears are a bit out of perfect roundness. You need to find the high spot and that is the spot you want to make sure is set with the right amount of play.
5. The crown should just move slightly in this spot. If not, use your hand to turn the crown away from the pinion a bit and check again until you feel you have it right.
6. Lock the crown down and check the play all around again.
7. With a power pack hooked up, turn up the power until the motor starts to turn over slowly. Take a lighter and put the flame along the teeth and pinion for a short period of time. You can literally hear the the sound get quieter.

Do not overheat of course or you are going to melt the gear.

Works everytime for me.

Also, I keep my gears separate.
Gears used in hypoid position with ProSlots or Falcons are kept separate from those aren't and separate from those used on TSRs which turn the opposite way.

[Mark Wampler]

[Mike K]

2. I make sure the fat end of the angled pinion is towards the motor AND that the teeth of the crown touch the pinion just ahead of the rear of the pinion.

Question- Is the "fat" end of the pinion the front or rear of the pinion in your description?

Or - should the crown gear be meshed with the fat end of the smaller end of the pinion?

Thanks!

[RomanK]

... doing 316 laps on the King.

Is that a lot?