70 replies to this topic

[flarimer]

Rick - That's IT! Exactly as I remember both Mike M's original 16D car that I borrowed *and* the chassis that I "cloned" from his car!

The rails at the front kick up just as I recall, the middle one behind the axle tube and the other three going ahead of the front axle.

At the rear, just as I would have done back then. Although your solution to the motor mounting bracket is far and away superior to what I did back then...

We were indeed using drill-rod - mostly because it was stronger and did not bend... Love your scientific approach to mic'ing the ID/OD of the tubes and the axle material.

I had forgotten all about notching the 1/8" rails until you showed that - I remember taking a file to the outboard rails and doing just that so the pin-tube body mounts would run straight...

Dang you're good! That jig is so da**ed trick! This IS GONNA BE SWEET!

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you....

[dc-65x]

I'm really glad you approve and like how it looks so far. This just seemed like way the project should go and sounded like a fun car to build.

Here it is with the preliminary "buff". When it's all done I'll tumble it for magnum bling and give it a coat of spray wax. Then it can take on a patina over time:









OOPS! I see I forgot to go back resolder that tacked on "jumbo" rail . These enlarged photos really show up the boo boo's .





I didn't see a rear axle brace in the picture of Mike's car... I think I'm going to have to add one or the chassis won't survive my driving at Eddie's

[flarimer]

Rick - stunning work!

The brace for the rear. Right, neither Mike's chassis nor my survivor have that. Not particularly sure why that is. Would seem appropriate for this chassis especially with the 26D and it's added torque.

Can hardly wait to see how this car evolves and how it runs.

Regards,
fL

[Pablo]

Gorgeous !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Duffy]

The brace for the rear. Right, neither Mike's chassis nor my survivor have that. Not particularly sure why that is. Would seem appropriate for this chassis especially with the 26D and it's added torque.

I chuckle. If you're just tuning in, Fred, a LOT of discussion here on Slotblog (and esp. in the "RETRO" camps) hovers around "What SHOULD have been"--those things we've learned in the ensuing years that in hindsight are simply no-brainers; leading some to try, sometimes very hard, to imbue '60s guys with '00s brains...

Seems like a lot of S'bloggers haven't read their Stephen Jay Gould. "Why didn't we think of that"--because we didn't, now get over it.

Of course, NOW (if it's in a "might've-been" category that Rikky is particularly charming at creating for our entertainment!) we can play with this stuff. Blessedly free of some Racing Class rules set, we can build in this genre that Rikky, Pablo, Jairus and I (long ago & not recently) have done. A real noble thing, I think. We need more of it.

--I need more of it!

Duffy

[flarimer]

Right. I do recall using the rear braces - perhaps we just hadn't begun using them during the R&C period. I do see that some of the cars that raced at the J&J's F-1 race had begun to use support braces in the rear bracket - however they hadn't yet evolved to the half-round "bumper guard" style.

I'd suspect it wasn't too long before we integrated them into our chassis construction. It wouldn't have been unusual for us to race on a Tuesday in one shop and by the weekend have a new chassis incorporating the latest "tweeks" based on what we had seen on someone else's car.

Fun and heady times those were.

[Mark H]

Gorgeous !!!!!!!!!!!!

just what i was thinking stunning!

[dc-65x]

Here's what I did for a rear axle brace:


I made it look like what I "think" the brace on John Anderson's winning car from the 5th race looks like...kind-a-sort-a...



Here's the Rick's jig setup for the drop arm. The guide is set at the Korrect lead and centered in the jig's slot by 2 pieces of 1/16 X 1/4 brass strip. .030" shim stock spaces the guide at the right height for 1/16" track clearance. Pins locate the width of the drop arm and then the chassis can be removed:



Here's a close-up of the bends in the drop arm. Masking tape protects the plastic guide from the acid flux. It makes ugly white blotches on the plastic:



The guide tube and rails all soldered up:



The chassis goes back on the jig and the pivot tube and down stop go on. The finished guide all buffed up:





The drop arm installed on the chassis without a weight....



....and with a weight (2 pieces of 1/16" lead sandwiched together):



And finally the chassis is finished:





It's wheel and tire time

[Tex]

Immaculate as usual, Rick. Please take no umbrage with my next comment.... it's amazing to think that those guys threw these together in a matter of hours, what you are taking so long to painstakingly recreate. I'm just glad you're here to be able to give us a very closeup and personal look at what they did(or likely did). I LOVE it!

[dc-65x]

Thanks Tex. I guess the Pros were creating new chassis every week . It takes me weeks to make just one .

[Tex]

It takes me weeks to make just one .

Great mimes think dislike.


Or something like that.

[flarimer]

Rick - another work of art! Thanks for taking the close-up shots and documenting your work - especially for folks like me to see how you created things like the drop-arm.

Seeing the slant-guide in the photo reminded me of all those times where things got hot enough to melt the plastic of the motor or guide and the effect on the eyes...and nose... Some things you never forget eh...

The rear axle hoop - so nicely done! Like the way you used it to not only strengthen the engine mount but also help to reinforce the axle tubes. That is using the noggin!!

I'll be curious to see if this car responds as did the other similar-era cars to the tire choices and drop arm weight.

Your builds may take longer but they are a darned site nicer than what we whipped together in our rush to get a new car on track.

fL

[Hworth08]

Another nice frame!

Racers showing their new chassis was one of my best memories of early slot racing. With a normal turnout of about 15 people someone usually had a new car each week.

Much like a mama cow bringing her new calf back to the herd, we'd fawn over the new car looking for new ideas and comparing notes. Often an old body, motor, and running gear but a new frame made a new car!

[endbelldrive]

Thanks Tex. I guess the Pros were creating new chassis every week . It takes me weeks to make just one .

Yes, but there are a lot more folks soldering up old timey scratchbuilt frames since you first started posting pics of your projects. Pssst... ...you and SteveO helped bring this art form back from the dead!

[dc-65x]

I’m interested in “seeing this one move” too. The chassis is REALLY stiff with very little flex. I wonder if that will cure the “over bite” problem I’m having with modern tires? If not I’ve got some vintage grey VC’s that should solve the tilting problem.

Yes, but there are a lot more folks soldering up old timey scratchbuilt frames since you first started posting pics of your projects. Pssst... ...you and SteveO helped bring this art form back from the dead!

Thank you Bob. That means a lot to SteveO and I.

[TSR]

Rick,
our Jail-Door racing experience in recent races tells us that the stiffer the frame, the less grip you will have with modern tires and the faster the car will be. After some experimentation, we have found that the secret to gert these cars to go really fast is to make them rigid as a board...

[Jairus]

Thus the experimentation with bronze welding rod!
Building my first Jaildoor chassis right now with welding rod. That stuff is HARD.

[dc-65x]

Thanks for the tip Philippe. Oh, I won that armature you put me on to. I'll be posting it here soon. It looks brand new. It will be nice to have a good arm in this car and not one that was blown up and soldered back together! Thanks again.

Anywho, my chassis was quite "wimpy" until I put in the "jumbo" rail on each side. That really stiffened it up. Maybe the jail door guys should try them...or have they already???

Now I wish I'd not cut the center out of the front body mount.

[Jairus]

Yeah, I wondered why you did that in the first place?

[TSR]

Rick,
I am very pleased that you were able to win this armature. It is indeed a rare survivor, a genuine Dynamic "Green Hornet' that appeared to be in good condition. I figured that only very few would even know what it is, so the auction was probably a steal!
This is the exacting arm that is in Fred's car.
Now if only I could find a genuine Green Hornet MIB for the LASCM, we only have a mint LOOSE example...
Not that I am complaining!

[tonyp]

Jail door rules specify .063 rails..

[Hworth08]

Triangulate a couple rails then like nearly all the early frames had. A well triangulated member CAN'T flex, it may bend or break the attaching joint but it won't flex.

[dc-65x]

Here is the new arm for the car. It looks unused to me and has got to be better than the blow up and repaired one I had before:



The prototype Russkit 26 motor:





Front tires are the ubiquitous K&B hard vinyl. They were used almost exclusively in the later R&C races and through the 1967 Car Model races. These are the Firestone version, they also made Goodyears. A little epoxy acts as a lubricant to center the tires up on the rim and then holds them in place for grinding to 7/8":



The finished wheels and tires with inserts:



For a crown gear I'm using a Weldun aluminum gear as used in the last R&C race. Apparently after that race the Weldun plastic gear took over until the advent of the angle winders:



The finished roller:







The repop Russkit interior from Victor had to be bulged out for motor clearance:



So the body and interior are ready to go except for.....





......for the big rear wing Fred used on his car

Onward

[flarimer]

Rick - now that is incredibly cool! What a work of art.

In the sketch I sent you of the wing placement - my sketch has it too far aft - probably should have the trailing edge just over the rear axle.

Sooooo looking forward to seeing more photos and your evaluations of it after you've driven it some.

Way cool!

fL

[dc-65x]

In the sketch I sent you of the wing placement - my sketch has it too far aft - probably should have the trailing edge just over the rear axle.

Got it Fred, thanks.

So, should the wing be clear or body color.....or perhaps silver? I hope it's painted so it really stands out!

Do you see the wing as being a thin material like .015" or thicker, say .030"?

Speaking of body color, what color do you see this car in your "minds eye"? Orange with a white stripe across the nose like your Carrera 6 perhaps? The car's number would be 3?

Thanks in advance Fred,

Rick