112 replies to this topic

[John Streisguth]

I am absolutely against a spec tire...to me that's a tuning tool. Yes, most tracks you will run one particular tire. What if something else works better? For many of us, changing a tire compound or the hub size is a quick and easy tuning tool. Retro was not necessarily designed to be a cheap racing class, it was to control the motors so that the emphasis would be on the chassis building. It's still way cheaper than a lot of slot car racing classes.

Racing can be as cheap or as expensive as you make it, just like everything else you might do as a pastime.

[Larry Mattingly]

Simple solution.............

Use Hand out P-S PD motors are all IRRA Premier events.

Each day, each class racers have to buy new hand out motors for the class that day. If a racer finds a "good one" well he gets to use it only in the class/day he pulled the motor. Next day.....luck of the draw will be on.

Everyone is the same boat...... everyone has the same luck pulling a motor.

No need to worry about air gaps, timing, magnet strength, reforming brush hoods, sending out arms for custom balancing and whatever points have been brought up here.

No one has to worry about motors leaving the raceway as they will be handed out on race morning installed, practiced and then tech'ed and impounded.

How many of you here and have posted and also race at IRRA Premier events would go along with this proposal?

Oh my...

Ron and I have discussed 'hand-out' Pro Slot motors several times. In fact, you may see it tried in the very near future. It is the only fair way to end 'perception'. And, as I have stated MANY times... perception is reality. My vote is YES for handout PS motors.

Requiring Ron to run Pro Slot refurbs is absurd. Should he also be required to race Parma bodies instead of O/S shells? The guy is in the motor and body business. Why would he use the products/services of a competitor.

Another point is the fact that no one is beating down the doors to do the refurb service. If Ron should decide to quit, there will only be one. Will this lead to more perception?

Spec tires... Everyone knows my feeling on the issue...

[Horsepower]

i dont race retro and dont know much about it but it seems to me you could have every one submit a legal sealed motor at the tech table. then number each motor and every one draw a number and thats the motor they run in the race. chances are you wont draw your own motor so if you cheated some one else would benefit. then at the end of the race every one gets their own motor back

That is a great solution! Anybody else?

[Ron Hershman]

That is a great solution! Anybody else?

How about every IRRA racer sends in a brand new PD motor in the bag to the IRRA or just mail in 48.00 to IRRA

This should bring in/purchase 100 plus motors.

All are "refurbed" and sealed by Fast Ones or Pro-Slot.

The IRRA numbers all the motors and when you show up at a IRRA Premier event...each racer picks a motor out of the "motor pool" and uses that motor for the day...... at the end of the day the motors are returned and re picked/used the next day.

At the end of the event, all used motors in the course of a weekend are refurbed and freshened up for the next Premier race.

The motors are the property of the IRRA

[Phil Donaldson]

One donkey may have a higher metabolism rate than another. How would a seal affect that?

I want to know the effect of "animated pectrons" on said donkey.And would the seal control the decay of "dissiapted flotrons" on the negative terminal of motors.

[Lucky Me]

I have to laugh at a lot of what has been posted here, i.e. "PD Motor tampering" "FK pinching/twisting" "tricky rubber" .

Seem's to me the real issue at hand is that a lot of us would like to have Ron's skillset when it come's to driving, I know I would, I mean, really, if you had the fastest best handling hot-rod on the track and fell off 8 times " once each lane" per segment, what is more detrimental ? falling off those 8 times or not falling off and running a tenth slower the entire race? which scenario would net you a higher lap total ? I would much rather have a "blueprinted" driver's skillset than any blueprinted motor, driving has alway's won the race's not drag racing down the straightaway.

I would be heavily opposed to a spec tire.
I would also oppose sending the IRRA another $48 to choose a random PD motor that I wouldn't own, being that I couldn't even afford an extra $10 for an additional FK motor at the R4/5.

I make tire's a lot because that afford's me the only economical way to do it for the time being, making tire's suck's, I wish I had the extra cash just to buy what I wanted and as much as I wanted. It is without a doubt a tuning tool for the car's we run also.

You want to control perception with all of it ? take a page out of bracket racing and institute a breakout time that is just a "hair" slower than the fastest lap's that are being "driven" at a particular racetrack. Oh, I forgot, we want to go faster dont we ;-)

[Bill from NH]

That is a great solution! Anybody else?

If we have the preception of having this many problems running sealed motors, run unsealed motors. Then everyone will only think everybody else is cheating.

[Rusty Pinion]

Simple..............just make Ron race a Whisper Jet car next year.......but...he would still kick booty. I can't believe this discussion is still going on.....

[Bill from NH]

Simple..............just make Ron race a Whisper Jet car next year.......but...he would still kick booty. I can't believe this discussion is still going on.....

People would say he was running special belts.

[TSR]

Just give him the No Belt Prize.

[NJ Racer]

We are running hand out ProSlot PD motors this year again for the upcoming Petit Lemans Enduro, not to mention hand out tires and a Noose painted body. A very level playing field to say the least. This concept was very successful last year and has attracted 40 committed participants this year. Handing out Pro Slot PD Motors on race day does not have an adverse effect on the economics of the retailer or the racer, rather quite the opposite. I have said this before and my belief remains cast in stone. Most teams ran one motor for the six hours, unlike other events being compelled to change to a different motor every main to stay fast, or for the need of more speed as you move up in company. Most racers have accumulated a bucket full of motors out of necessity over the years to remain competitive and it was not the result of hand out motors. Six one, half dozen the other and the fact remains a hand out PD motor will undoubtedbly be used again by the racer in non-premier events in your regional series. The "perception" for lack of a better word is eliminated when you move to hand out motors. The luck of the draw is generally an insignificant issue with this particular motor.

[Terry]

Guys, wake up! It doesn't matter what happens (hand out motors, spec tire, etc) people will always find something to complain about.

If this keeps up, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Ron does decide to retire from racing. I bet that some of you tools would love to see that.

So come on boys, keep the bitchfest going!!! You'll soon have one less thing to worry about.

[NJ Racer]

I doubt it ...LOL

[Mopar Rob]

You'll soon have one less thing to worry about.

Forrest Gump: Lieutenant Dan got me invested in some kind of fruit company. So then I got a call from him, saying we don't have to worry about money no more. And I said, that's good! One less thing."

Does it come with the money?

[S.O. Watt]

I want to know the effect of "animated pectrons" on said donkey.And would the seal control the decay of "dissiapted flotrons" on the negative terminal of motors.

a
Shhhh! Dan may hear and come running looking for an original Bolton Quik Suk.


But in all seriousness, as a guy getting back into the building and tuning of these kool kars, plus wanting to travel to some races in the not too distant future, Ron's idea would be great for me (and others), one less thing I gotta spend time and money on.

I would only need to invest in maybe 6 or so motors, enough to fill the motor boxes in the cars I would bring. One hassle gone, as I don't want another motor program thing. Just what many have said something about.

Not bad fodder.

[Rick]

My two cents: We just finished the R4, 70 entries in CanAM. Probably 40 of us knew we didn't ave a snowballs chance in hell of even making the semis, let alone the A Main, BUT there were still 70 entries. Things can't be real bad. Secondly, I think the Coupe class with the hand out FK motors is a great class the was it WAS. Luck of the draw is always there and that is exactly what makes it special, the top dogs can get a turd. hehe. It's no different than a racer getting lucky and missing the big crash and moving on, luck always plays a part in the racing too.............

[Terry]

I doubt it ...LOL

It's closer to becoming a reality than you know.

[JohnnySlotcar]

Being an old "returning" racer,one of the best things to happen is qualifying,then seeding into mains wher you race cars of similar speed. For us who will never make it back to the top,winning our main is almost as much fun as winning the "big one".This is why the fields are so large,as everyone has a chance to win a race. See you in Tennesee! Wanker

[shadow]

Lets have a big Raffle and whoever wins gets to use rons finger for the race...

[Matt Bruce]

Well I gotta tell you, I love Ron to death, but are you guys telling me that Ron Hershman is gonna retire from driving because of some inquiries into the written rules and questions about motor performance? That sure doesn't sound like Ron to me. I would hope that's not the case, cause along with being the best comes alot of BS, and retiring would be well, an eye opener to those inquiries.

[Fast Freddie]

There is no problem with Ron running his own bodies because every other racer can do the same thing. There is nothing wrong with Ron running tires that he assembled because every other racer can do the same thing. There is ,however, something wrong with Ron running motors that he rebuilt because no other racer can do the same thing. If you can't see that then then the discussion is moot. When I blueprint one of my GP12 motors I match magnets, magnet tips, and properly set the tips for pushing instead of pulling. I insure the magnets are glued in perfectly square and straight. I test different arms in different setups to find the best match. I insure bushing/bearing alignment, endbell alignment, brush alignment, spring tension and can straightness are all as perfect as I can get them. I make sure the hole in the can is exactly the size I want and that the arm spacing is just were I want it. Now you got to ask yourself three questions. Does Ron do this for his motors? Does he do it for your motors? Why or why not? Time would be one reason you don't get this much work done. The reason he would do it for himself, race advantage, something he really doesn't need to be honest. If the rule does get changed to allow motor building Ron will still win most races he enters. The only thing that may change is faster times for Level 2 and Level 3 racers. By that I mean more 4 second times and less 5 second times the bottom 2/3 of the racers will be closer to the top 1/3. Thus pushing the top racers to remain at their best and giving the bottom 2/3 more hope of winning or at least moving on.

[Matt Bruce]

I do not want to see Rons name or talent tarnished. In all honesty, it was only a matter of time before all this came to a head, and from where I sit the BoD should have dealt with this years ago, instead of letting Ron take the heat for what was a inevitable consequence of no action. It has always been a Comflict of Interest obviously but not of Rons doing in my opinion. Like Noose said, the BoD is looking into it, but truly something should have been done earlier to avoid setting the guy up for a witch hunt.

[Duffy]

There is no problem with Ron running his own bodies because every other racer can do the same thing. There is nothing wrong with Ron running tires that he assembled because every other racer can do the same thing. There is ,however, something wrong with Ron running motors that he rebuilt because no other racer can do the same thing.

--Except--

Freddie, in the very next statement you detailed the work you--a not-Ron human and therefore in the "no other" category--do to prep your motors; from which it should follow, that "every other racer" could do this, if they choose.

I get the sense that most of the flap here is from the guys who choose not to learn motor skills, and want to even out the field in their perception. But it ain't level in the best of circumstances! We scream about a bump on the green, while kicking up our own divots.

What we miss considering here is just how many ways a slot car can go right, or go wrong--we can build well or superbly, but we're building by hand with variously reliable materials. Our best work and prep will still land up somewhere on the scale from molecular perfection up to gross hacksaw butchery. It's chaos soup from an engineering standpoint, no matter how your car's built and prepped.
Best you can hope for is a provisional, conditional path through the chaos with enough kinetic energy left over to be that much faster than the other guy.
If we are aware, we will understand that and take responsibility. Most of us aren't aware, not all the time, and we forget about it in our rush to the race. --Where we see somebody with the appearance of Perfection in a place we are aware we lack it! Suddenly, that lump looms way large.

We're all talking about a perceived unevenness here, like somehow that'll forgive our own complicity. Never did; won't. We just argue that way.

Because we choose to.

Duffy

[Pablo]

I have 2 comments

1. Matt, I agree, they should have prevented this from happening. BUT, guess who the IRRA Motor guy is :
Motors Committee: chair - Ron Hershman

You guessed it: Ron Hershman

2. The IRRA BOD keeps saying they want to keep the playing field level and provide affordable racing by using sealed motors.
BUT, guess what ? WE WANT TO WORK ON MOTORS !!!!!!!!!