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Understanding the evolution of the "16D" motor


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#51 Jocke P

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 09:41 AM

I am afraid I might have distorted this thread with questions about other size motors, being new to the Slotblog I am still Learning how to go about it... the reason for me asking is that I have seen some ads on E bay and other sites where motors have been called 36 D and the description has mentioned FT 16... It is clear from the picture that there is a size difference hence two completely different motors. Please feel free to remove posts if you want to tidy up the topic, thank you for help sorting out the differencces.


Joakim Pegers




#52 don.siegel

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 04:48 PM

Jocke, 

 

Don't worry about it  - we love talking about motors! 

 

John, 

 

Just checked a couple of mine, a 36D and a Nascar and both checked out at .091, although fluctuating a bit on .090, using my super-duper digital calipers... (ie, made in China...). 

 

I remember that you posed the question at some point and there was a thread, but didn't remember if there were any firm conclusions. 

 

Don 



#53 havlicek

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:11 PM

Hi Don,

 

     I just went down and checked a half dozen or so, and on my "decent" calipers I get .090"...but fluctuating every so often downwards.  It's probably past the ability of my calipers to resolve to that accuracy, so I guess we're getting pretty much the same result!? :)  Anyway, the .093" number is definitely wrong.  Interestingly, the new Mabuchi motors in the "FT36D" size (although round cans) have the exact same size shaft material.  So even though it's a really odd size with no exact metric equivalent, it's apparently a size that's "out there" for some reason.  On another side note, the armatures in these new motors are very close to the same diameter as the old "36D" arms, but the old ones are lighter and work better.  Back "on topic", the old "16D" armature laminations also work very well.  There were some things about those old motors that they either "did right"...or just got lucky with!

 

-john


John Havlicek

#54 zipper

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 05:04 AM

Might be the same axle as used on 360 type electric motors - shaft nominally 2.3 mm =.9055"


Pekka Sippola

#55 havlicek

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:59 AM

Might be the same axle as used on 360 type electric motors - shaft nominally 2.3 mm =.9055"

 

Could be (sounds very close), but it's still a weird "shaft" size (an "axle" is what carries wheels and/or gears), and Mabuchi has stuck with it since...forever.

 

-john


John Havlicek

#56 gotboostedvr6

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 12:11 PM

2.3mm and 3.175mm motor shafts are very popular in Asia.

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#57 TSR

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:00 PM

http://lamar.colosta...onal.html#japan

 

That may explain some of the issues about the shaft diameters, but the basic train-motor shafts had been "3/32" well before WW2 and the Japanese simply copied for years what round eyes were doing, for much of their fledgling industries! The slot car motors followed and when Mabuchi produced their FT36, there was no reason to go smaller. The FT16 presented a new challenge, that of stack webbing, and a smaller shaft was necessary to allow enough wire to fit. Hence, a 2mm shaft, or in fact, for a 2mm bearing, the shaft being 1.98mm, or... 0.078".


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#58 havlicek

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:21 PM

Thanks for that Philippe!  Makes some sense out of why the shaft diameter wouldn't be a precise/"round" number.

 

-john


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#59 TSR

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:59 PM

And of course I should add that the BEARING diameter was 3/32", the shafts would be smaller, like anything between 0.89" to 0.091" explaining why the shafts on those old arms are always below the 0.093" diameter, otherwise they would not fit inside the bearing!



#60 Jocke P

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:53 PM

Did Japanese manufacturers ever make anything but metric unless specified in orders? I cannot remember any.
Joakim Pegers

#61 Gator Bob

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:59 PM

Much of the packaging of the day for 36D components would say  "3/32" undersize (.091)".


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#62 don.siegel

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 05:03 PM

Did Japanese manufacturers ever make anything but metric unless specified in orders? I cannot remember any.

Yes, the Japanese manufacturers also made a number of model train motors and then that style (open-frame, or Pittman style) for slot cars, all with 3/32 shafts, like the Strombecker, Aristo-Craft and other models. These already had the standard 3/32" shaft, so they just kept to that. 

 

Don 


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#63 TSR

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 06:54 PM

Mabuchi, Igarashi, KTM, Johnson and many other motor manufacturers in Japan and Hong Kong made 80-90% of all model trains sold in America in the 1960s.



#64 CaptREDD

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 05:53 PM

the Mura Mini-Brute motor was shorter than the Mura "16d"....the CAN was shorter...26D arms worked...but the reddish-brown "rubber"  magnets were

barely magnets...I have seen better refrigerator magnets....at least the 2 Mini-Brutes I bought new were that way...

 

 

REDD


Rufus Nathaniel Redd





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