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Understanding the evolution of the "16D" motor


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#26 Ron Hershman

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 11:00 AM

The depth of the FT26 and FT36 cannot be related because it would make the FT26 and 36 huge monsters. Frankly, if it makes sense that the FT16 MIGHT have been named for its depth as it is close to 16mm (0.640" = 16.256 mmm), it certainly cannot apply to the other motors, and not even to the "other" Mabuchi can motor, the FT13UO.
Hence, the mystery remains.

Ron can elaborate on the advent of the Parma "16D", when and why it was born.


Was the FT13UO smaller than a current FK motor? A current FK motor is a little over 15 MM in height.

The Parma 16D... at some point in the '70s Parma and Champion started using the Johnson 222 16D motor. When Johnson stopped production of that model/motor in 1982-83 that left Parma scrambling to find a new source for 16D motors. In 1983-84 company was found in Hong Kong to produce a replacement. The early versions of these motors were not too great and had a lot of problems and over the years to follow many changes were made to produce a decent motor at low cost.

I can, at some point, post pics of the various "editions" of the evolution of the Parma 16D motor along with other tidbits and specs.




#27 Gator Bob

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 11:30 AM

Was the FT13UO smaller than a current FK motor? A current FK motor is a little over 15 MM in height.

The Parma 16-D........ at some point in the 70's Parma and Champion started using the Johnson 222 16-D motor. When Johnson stopped production of that model/motor in 1982/3 that left Parma scrambling to find a new source for 16-D motors. In 1983/84 company was found in Hong Kong to produce a replacement. The early versions of these motors were not too great and had a lot of problems and over the years to follow many changes were made to produce a decent motor at low cost.

I can, at some point post pics of the various "editions" of the evolution of the Parma 16-D motor along with other tidbits and specs.


FT13 is 14mm.

IMO -The early Johnson's had better (in a way) endbell hardware then the FT-16.

The later ones were "tricked out" with heatsinks and a comm cooler.
Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#28 Guy Spaulding

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 11:36 AM

Is that also true for a Revell SP40?

#29 TSR

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 12:15 PM

Same motor. Revell SP40, Eldon whatever their stock number was, Monogram, Kal-Kar, all the same.

#30 Champion 507

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 11:59 PM

About 2 1/2 years ago I posted this about the evolution of the Mabuchi comms used on .078" diameter shaft motors.

http://slotblog.net/...the-comm-turns/
Doug Azary
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#31 ravajack

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:55 AM

This post is not complete yet, I will get back to it and complete it tomorrow with more pictures and more details.


Please stop disturbing Philippe with interrupting questions and views.

It's now way past "tomorrow" and he still haven't found time to complete this great article!

You guys are keeping him all too busy... Give him some slack and let's see the rest of this interesting info!
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#32 Hworth08

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:51 AM

Bertil,

It's Philippe's "fear" of us finding him wrong that leads to such good research. LOL.
Don Hollingsworth

#33 TSR

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:58 AM

Actually it's me having no time to continue because of issues at home, sorry!

#34 Ron Hershman

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:03 AM

Trailer needing more cinder blocks underneath? LOL.

#35 TSR

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:18 AM

No, wife needing attention for health issues. :(

#36 TSR

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:45 PM

I completed the initial post and added text and pictures, so go back to the first post of this thread and read it again if you feel like it. :)

#37 Victor Poulin

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 08:31 AM

I can, at some point, post pics of the various "editions" of the evolution of the Parma 16D motor along with other tidbits and specs.


Would love to see that when you have time, Ron.

Vic
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#38 Maximo

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:41 PM

Dokk,

I too want to thank you for this very informative thread. I look forward to your new book when it becomes available.

Max
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#39 Dennis David

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:51 AM

I didn't notice the date of these posts. I hope things are well on the home front. Our hobby has never had it's history documented to the extent that's done in 1:1. Perhaps this could be the next push for the LASCM in sponsoring research and publication regarding our hobbiy's history.

Dennis David
    
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#40 HarV Wallbanger III

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:16 AM

Dokk will someday finish his 2nd book..... See his first book Dennis for a start....


Barney Poynor
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Hello my name is Barney and I was... I am addicted to glue, magnets, and wings... I have been clean and sober years now... NOW I'm hooked on 1/32 club track racing! Dang!
 

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If you remember
screw-on braid, motors that look like padlocks, that dang fuse wire in Cox controllers, "hand" painted bodies, the very first can motors from Mabuchi, and the smell of wintergreen then you are OLD!... like me!

Enjoy life! Race Slot Cars and read SlotBlog!


#41 Jocke P

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:44 PM

Back in the late nineties I found two n.o.s. Mabuchi FT16 in a hobbyshop in Vejle, Denmark that has the same can as FT16D-74, but with white endbell, they had green painted Comm and green wiring.

Store owner claimed they were leftovers from the slot era. I still have them, one still has the original armature.

I am still very confused as to what is 16 D and what is 36D...a lot of the Engines on sale as 36 D look just like my FT 16 D...guess I will have to purchase one to find out what the difference.is...


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#42 zipper

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:52 PM

The size!


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#43 TSR

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 05:12 PM

Joakim,

There were four sizes of Mabuchi 'can' motors in the 1960s.

 

In 1963, the first two were born:

 

The FT16 was what is called today a "16D" and found in most 1960s 1/32 scale kits and RTRs produced in the United States.

The FT36 was the big and fat one used in most 1960s 1/24 scale slot car kits and RTRs by Monogram, Cox, Classic...

Both these evolved and became in 1965, the FT16D and FT36D, with updated parts.
 

The smallest was issued in 1965 and was a very narrow motor called the FT13UO, and was the one used in the Monogram 1/20-scale Midget and 1/32 scale F1 cars.

 

In 1966, a new "medium size" motor came called the FT26, commonly called "26D".

 

As far as the "FT16D-74" it was a motor issued in... 1974 from all-new tooling, of the same size as the original FT16. It can be found in mid-1970s RTR cars such as the one produced by Riggen-Gayla or Winnwagons. Mabuchi made those until the late 1970s when the demand became so weak, they gave up on slot car motors until the early 1990s.

 

I hope that this is clearer for you now.



#44 Jocke P

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 05:12 PM

Ok, got it, I will order one on my next purchase from Professor Motor, Pekka, do you have some measurments from a 36D can, maybe diameter of the Armature as well? It will help me plan for the Project. Thanks.


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#45 Jocke P

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 05:39 PM

Thank you Philippe, I will get one 36D as well.

I will  build some cars similar to what you run at Buena Vista in order to generate some interest for 3D here in mid Sweden.

Seems the 36D is the only old motor still used regularly.

 

I have enjoyed your welth of knowledge and desire to share it for a ong time.

 

Joakim


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#46 zipper

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 04:34 AM

36D, Atlas 906, 26D, 16D side by side, thanks to our French friends. 36D has a .93 axle, all other slot motors .78 axle.

36D, Atlas 906, 26D, 16D.jpg


Pekka Sippola

#47 don.siegel

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 07:01 AM

French? What did we have to do with this?

 

Small detail: the shaft on the 36D is more like .091", not .093 (which is 3/32" and is the standard shaft size for most of the PIttman style open frame motors used in slot cars). I think that's 2.3 mm, whereas the 13D, 16D and 26D all have .078" shafts (I believe 2mm).

 

Not really sure about the shaft size on the Atlas...

 

That 16D on the right must be a different version, because it has a large bearing housing, unlike most of the standard 16Ds - maybe a slightly later version, or using a different endbell...

 

Don



#48 zipper

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 07:24 AM

French? What did we have to do with this?

 

 

Loaned the pic from: 

http://www.forum-fol...es.htm?start=90

(where some well known French slotracers do appear...) 


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#49 don.siegel

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 07:36 AM

Yes, I know Zip... in fact, I started that thread, but didn't remember the exact photo - which was in fact posted by a French guy who's lived in England for almost 40 years, and speaks perfect English!

 

Don



#50 havlicek

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 08:11 AM

 

 

Small detail: the shaft on the 36D is more like .091", not .093 (which is 3/32" and is the standard shaft size for most of the PIttman style open frame motors used in slot cars). I think that's 2.3 mm, whereas the 13D, 16D and 26D all have .078" shafts (I believe 2mm).

 

This comes up from time to time, but the shaft is smaller than that Don.  It's somewhere around .0895", and Mabuchi still uses that shaft size on motors in that size range (round cans) that they produce for automotive and other purposes in both 3 and 5 pole versions.  It may even be .089" (I'd have to recheck), but the .093" size is the one I see often and I don't know where that comes from.  The actual shaft size is a "bastard" size and there is no actual metric equivalent, only the "nearest" equivalent.  

 

-john


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