339 replies to this topic

[SlotStox#53]

I must admit these old motors still look so cool!! Especially seeing what you have done to the inside


Definitely got these babies down to a fine art John !

[havlicek]

Thanks Paul    ...and this motor will run and be fast/fun even by today's standards.  It's not like the old Mabuchis can't be coaxed, anyone who raced back then will confirm.  It's getting them to stay together where things get a little dicey  If I could have, I would have worked for one of the rewinders for free as a kid to learn more about this stuff.  That would have been a lot easier than trying to figure this all out "one-wasted-motor-at-a-time" the way I've been doing it.    Anyway, I do have something of a "system" (if you could call it that) at this point 

 

-john

[Gator Bob]

John,

That should be a real sweet little runner.

 

And it sure looks classy in gold. Nice!  

[havlicek]

Thanks Bob  I haven't found a regular gold in metallic (close to the Russkit color) that is durable.  The "hammered" colors by Rustoleum are very durable, so I use them a lot.  Rustoleum's "textured black" is another good one for durability.  Sometimes I'll shoot that color first and then overshoot it with one of the "Hammered colors" for a little variety.  For white, the only one I've found that's at least "OK" is the "Appliance Epoxy"...again by Rustoleum.  White and about all the light colors don't seem to work as well or even get as hard once cured, even when baking them in my EZ Bake oven.

 

-john

[havlicek]

     Every once in a while, I'll go down to "the dungeon" and start looking at parts for inspiration.  Sometimes it's for a "more or less" correct project, sometimes it's for one of those "well, if I cut this and sand that, I might be able to fit the other doohickeys to the whatchamacallit" projects and sometimes it's for one of my "I don't give a dang" projects.  So last week, I found a pretty nice Mura "B" can with a butchered end bell.  The can got stripped and flattened, and I installed a nifty ball bearing in it rather than replacing the *REALLY* worn bushing, but the end bell's screw holes were all stripped and there was no hardware!?  Since Mura C hardware will fit (I know...the period police will gasp!), a running motor could easily be fashioned, but it would have to be an "I don't give a dang" motor.

    So, after staring at the pieces for a while, I started to look for some nice magnets and I do have some...BUT...I also started staring at some D-motor magnets which are PLENTY strong and sort of a good fit (actually...a little too tight with the thin metal "clips" normally used with those).  My demented brain (or what's left of it) started considering options and I came up with the formula: B+D+BDA/KDW= NP (B motor + D magnets + Big Diameter Arm divided by some Krazee Double Wind = New Project).  So I sez to myself..."self, make an arm and do a fairly stooooopid double wind, then stuff that thing in the B".  Being totally oblivious to the concerns regarding the B motor's proclivity for getting into BBQ territory, I dun-did me a #27 double wind on the .560" x .460" blank I cobbled together for this "I don't give a dang" project.  Welp...the arm is all done except for going out for balancing and it will be a fire-breathing sonofagun for sure...coming at .103 ohms.  Best part is, it meters precisely the same across all three poles.  Double winds (for me anyway) will usually have a point or two variance just because it's hard to keep them neat.  Here, the big diameter arm blank allowed me to get the right number of turns on there in only four layers like a normal single wind, so things stayed pretty neat...for a double wind anyway.  I'm going to look through my "pile-o-stuff" to see about a clean B end bell while it's out for balancing.  That way, even though it's so incorrect on the inside it would make a purist cry, it'll at least look the part on the outside  Anywho, this one oughtta really dim the lights in Fresno, since it's a #28 double wind!  So that's my story and...oh yeah...here's a super secret spy photo.  

 

 

-john

[havlicek]

     Here's a "funny thing".  Over the years, as I got more comfortable with all this stuff, I've been moving more towards the reliability side of things (I haven't done a #23 or even a #24 wind in a long time), figuring that even the old G20 motors were PLENTY fast.  Having started selling motors on eBay, I get questions all the time about making motors as hot as can be.  Seems I'm going one way and everyone else is going the other!?

 

-john

[Gator Bob]

Not ME  .... I'm likening those Challenger II, Super Wasp 'cranks' in vintage 'small blocks' 

 

Maybe some Mura 15s will find a home too.

[SlotStox#53]

It seems you can't please all of the people all of the time John!!

Think the last #24 you did was for Bob? The "BIG" armature give away,the last phat winds you did to cure your big wire itch along with the #25 you did for me to go in that mint green can

Or was it one of your armature auctions with that range of Hawk arms you did think it went from #25 ish upto #29 with that skewed lam Hawk I won

[Gator Bob]

 "Have it your way" It's a BK not an FK

 13t/23w @ .079    

[SlotStox#53]

 

 13t/23w @ .079    

Ah yes......... full short racing at it's best !! You tried it out yet Bob?

[havlicek]

...well there's always the exception  It seems that there is clearly two kinds of slotters (and I'm not complaining)

 

1)The kind who figure "fast enough is fast enough".

2)The kind who figure there's no such thing as "fast enough".

 

I'm thinking of doing a #27 double for the second kind, after I clear away a bunch of arms I have to do.  Maybe I'll have another whack at a triple #28 when my "mind" gets cleared up.  

 

-john

[SlotStox#53]

Lets see if I remember correctly.... a double wind actually corresponds to a single wind 3# down ( 28 double = single #25) ?

 

What does a triple wind work out to John?

[havlicek]

 

 

What does a triple wind work out to John?

ummm...really hot.  There's a formula I had around here somewhere, but I don't know where.  I'm sure someone here knows it though!

 

-john

[SlotStox#53]

If you can't remember John, this triple wind is gonna end up one scary wind!

[zipper]

Lets see if I remember correctly.... a double wind actually corresponds to a single wind 3# down ( 28 double = single #25) ?

I'd agree.
Triple = down 4.5?

[havlicek]

Maybe Pekka, all I know is that they're a PITA to terminate neatly at the com tabs.    It's been a long time, but the last triple I did, I had resistance numbers down so low, I had to recheck the meter several times to be sure the battery wasn't dying.

 

-john

[zipper]

I did one - that was enough; quite a mess. Even winding doubles wasn't fun.

[Marty N]

Triples are not a straight up conversion. 30 gauge for instance is 100 circular mills so three times that 300. 26 gauge is 254 but 25 gauge is 320. About 4.75 steps. Best to use a chart.

[havlicek]

Thanks for the info Marty.  You're one of my "go-to" guys when it comes to crazy-motor info! (and I mean that in a good way of course!)

 

-john

[zipper]

I was too lazy to make an exact calculation...
(to dig the table from my slot archives)

[Marty N]

Thanks for the info Marty.  You're one of my "go-to" guys when it comes to crazy-motor info! (and I mean that in a good way of course!)

 

-john

Always welcome John.  

[havlicek]

Here's an example of my "reverse wind" done on a Mabuchi 26D stack for an Italian racer I'm doing some motors for.  The picture shows how the wires end up at the com, which sort of almost looks like a hemi wind...but it's not.  The method produces very compact/tight coils besides being more secure when you need an odd number of coils/layers to do a particular wind.  Picture was taken after welding, but before tying and epoxying so you can see what's going on in there.  On a different subject, it also shows the brazing silver "fillets" at the com tabs.  

 

 

-john

[SlotStox#53]

Very pretty arm John! Some seriously tight and neat winds , doesn't look a whole lot of wire on the stacks !!!!

[havlicek]

Very pretty arm John! Some seriously tight and neat winds , doesn't look a whole lot of wire on the stacks !!!!

 

Hi Paul.  Yes, the method makes for very tight/compact coils, and what's on there is the right number of turns for the gauge...the arm measures a healthy (but sane) .45 ohms    The 26D stack is fairly large, but the one "gotcha" is the short length for it's width, and a lot of winds wind up really close to the bottom of the com...no problem at all with a reverse wind.  I've also used them a fair number of times on the little Hawk motor which has the same type of situation, but on a much smaller stack when the wind calls for it.  

 

Basically, you can have the wire heading back to the com on the top of the coils or underneath them on an odd-number-of-layers wind.  While I'm not AT ALL saying my way is *better* or criticizing those who do it the other way , I MUCH prefer to do it this way.

 

-john

[Kim Lander]

     Every once in a while, I'll go down to "the dungeon" and start looking at parts for inspiration.  Sometimes it's for a "more or less" correct project, sometimes it's for one of those "well, if I cut this and sand that, I might be able to fit the other doohickeys to the whatchamacallit" projects and sometimes it's for one of my "I don't give a dang" projects.  So last week, I found a pretty nice Mura "B" can with a butchered end bell.  The can got stripped and flattened, and I installed a nifty ball bearing in it rather than replacing the *REALLY* worn bushing, but the end bell's screw holes were all stripped and there was no hardware!?  Since Mura C hardware will fit (I know...the period police will gasp!), a running motor could easily be fashioned, but it would have to be an "I don't give a dang" motor.

    So, after staring at the pieces for a while, I started to look for some nice magnets and I do have some...BUT...I also started staring at some D-motor magnets which are PLENTY strong and sort of a good fit (actually...a little too tight with the thin metal "clips" normally used with those).  My demented brain (or what's left of it) started considering options and I came up with the formula: B+D+BDA/KDW= NP (B motor + D magnets + Big Diameter Arm divided by some Krazee Double Wind = New Project).  So I sez to myself..."self, make an arm and do a fairly stooooopid double wind, then stuff that thing in the B".  Being totally oblivious to the concerns regarding the B motor's proclivity for getting into BBQ territory, I dun-did me a #27 double wind on the .560" x .460" blank I cobbled together for this "I don't give a dang" project.  Welp...the arm is all done except for going out for balancing and it will be a fire-breathing sonofagun for sure...coming at .103 ohms.  Best part is, it meters precisely the same across all three poles.  Double winds (for me anyway) will usually have a point or two variance just because it's hard to keep them neat.  Here, the big diameter arm blank allowed me to get the right number of turns on there in only four layers like a normal single wind, so things stayed pretty neat...for a double wind anyway.  I'm going to look through my "pile-o-stuff" to see about a clean B end bell while it's out for balancing.  That way, even though it's so incorrect on the inside it would make a purist cry, it'll at least look the part on the outside  Anywho, this one oughtta really dim the lights in Fresno, since it's a #28 double wind!  So that's my story and...oh yeah...here's a super secret spy photo.  

 

 

-john

Dad-gum John....you know how to tempt me dont you...that is going to be one fun motor....hope you are doing well...Kim