66 replies to this topic

[Mr. M]

Whoa, back up a second!! What's that about done with slot cars PdL? Could joy clarify this a bit?

[Mr. M]

Could you clarify a bit? Sorry about the spelling miss.

[Gator Bob]

Chris, I think Dokk means the car 'stops on a dime' when saying "Right Now".

As in ... 'not' much of a_Space Coaster_{like us}.

[MSwiss]

 

 

3) Gearing

Because of the 1/8" shaft, the motor cannot be geared correctly because you cannot find a pinion small enough to gear it right, that will fit over the shaft. Two solutions to this:

- Use an 11t 64P pinion about 1/4" wide and machine a 1/8" hole in half its thickness. This will allow the pinion to fit over the shaft while retaining enough strength once soldered over the motor shaft. See illustration below over the 1/8" shaft of an SS-101 that uses the same armature:

 

bulk 2048.jpg

 

Be very careful as there is almost no metal left under the teeth! For example, if you try this with a 10t pinion, there is not enough material for drilling the 1/8" hole.

- Find an older Weldun or Tradeship setscrew pinion, 48 or 64P, with the smallest number of teeth you can find.

 

Cool solution, especially if you have a lathe and a soft collet the right size.

[TSR]

Yes indeed, one needs a lathe for this, and I am lucky to have an excellent Emco at my disposal. I did not use a collet, I stuck the pinion directly in the 3-jaw mandrel and made sure that it was straight and concentric, and drilled from the tower with a fixed drill. First I tried a 10T (64P) and the teeth fell off, but on the 11T, it worked perfectly.

Not everyone has access to a lathe, and it is not so easy to find a 1/8" Weldun or Tradeship setcrew pinion that would be small enough... this is probably why you don't see too many cars fitted with Globe motors around! 

[Gator Bob]

Thanks for the pointers gentlemen!

I may reconsider the disassemble because this is the only one I have.

What was the RPM rating on these ... something crazy like 100,000 if IIRC?

 

So I have to go in-line based on the brass or Dynamic bracket and this is what I have come up with gearing so far..... It will a drag type car.

Or a 48p / 16t in this kit http://slotblog.net/...or/#entry476696

The Kemtron 1616B does not say 48 pitch and it sure doesn't look like it ether.

So I looked at this http://www.vsrnonlin...on/CatC_p15.jpg  and it looks just like an 1803.

 

Anyone know about these gears?

 

I would like to go at a minimum of a 6:1 ratio and found this Dynamic 48p/48t.

I had it set aside in a bag with a brass 6 tooth pinion....for an 8:1 'rainy' day..... lol

[SlotStox#53]

Do you have to use the same precaution with the Wilson motors? As in don't remove the armature otherwise the magnet loses a lot of its power?

Cool looking motors to mess around with.

[TSR]

Paul, I do not know, I have never opened a  Wilson or read anything about their own "round" motors, I drove a car fitted with one once, and that did it for me... 

Maybe someone here knows.

[SlotStox#53]

Thanks, Dokk.   Don't need anymore interesting motors.     

Got enough to be getting on with breathing life into that 507R.
 
Good luck getting this motor in a car, Bob.

[MSwiss]

Bob,

How cool.
 
An 1/8" shaft, 48P 8t.
 
I have a friend who said he ran for Team Veristec and always complained about having a hard time being competitive with the SS-101, because IIRC, he said the smallest pinion you could get was a 10t.

[Gator Bob]

Wow, Team Versitec sure does have a nice vintage 'ring to it ...  

"Team Globe  or Team Screamer"  would sound about right in todays 'world'.

 

Geez .. I am not sure it is a 48p .. those Kemtron parts are old and I would think they may have been available and would have been used by those guys... 

 

BTW: I found the advertisement ... it is rated at 40,000 RPM not that much higher then a Mabuchi (600) 36 type ... at less then $4.⁰⁰  Lighter, cheaper and shorter lived has been winning the motor and light weight war all along.

 

But !!! ....  with a factory rating of 1/20th of a HP at 12v @40k RPM  ..... maybe it doesn't need so much gear. 

[MSwiss]

I read it closer.
 
I get it now.
 
They made a spur (1810) that worked with (most) 48P gears that was different than the one (1800) that worked with your 8t.

[Gator Bob]

The part #s and the documentation are confusing.

Seems like the logical thing to do is run the 64p 21t Weldun and a very 'big' modern aluminum drag gear and modern rear tires. But ... that Kills the whole vintage thing.

An 1/8" motor shaft and a 3/32" axle ..    

 

I would rather see some big old threaded Classic 'Jumbos' or Mila-Miglias.

I'll check if those alum 64p crowns come in 1/8th...and paint or arm dye it. 

[SlotStox#53]

Ooo classic jumbos or Mila Miglias ,sweet choice of wheels Bob

[NSwanberg]

Years ago, in a galaxy far far away... We used to manufacture windshield wiper fluid reservoir assemblies where I currently work. The motors that drove the windshield washer pumps always looked suspiciously like the Globe motor. It was round, all metal and unvented. I wonder, if in fact, the original function for the Globe motor was for just such an application?

At one time I think we even manufactured the motors here but that was just for a short while and way before my time at FoMoCo.[/size]

[don.siegel]

The Globe motors were originally aerospace/defense items, which explains the cost and standard ball bearings and pigtails.... believe they were used on missiles, probably to drive some kind of actuator. According to the guy I talked to at Globe Motors a couple years ago (yes, they still exist, are still a major manufacturer of miniature precision electric motors, and they belong to a French corporation, Safran, which happens to be my biggest customer!), some of the Globe engineers were into slot racing, in '63-64, and they realized that one of their motors could be a good slot motor with slightly different windings, hence the Globe Screamer and then the Versitec division... (Mike, Team Versitec? never heard of that one - could you ask your friend for more details?)
 
In fact, a lot of these industrial motors all look the same: I've seen many over the years, at least on eBay, and they're generally round, sealed, and high precision. Even picked up a couple, just to have around...
 
I believe I even have a 6 tooth Kemtron pinion like that - really strange!
 
Don

[dc-65x]

Do you have to use the same precaution with the Wilson motors? As in don't remove the armature otherwise the magnet loses alot of it's power? Cool looking motors to mess around with

 
No worries swapping arms in the Wilson. The motor's instructions say you don't have to remagnetize and I confirmed that with my gauss meter.
 
Here's a link to a Wilson motor build:
 
Wilson 890 Golden Screamer

[Michael Rigsby]

I can remember when I was first getting into slots, the raceway in Vero Beach on Miracle Mile was a family owned concern.  The son of the owner was a very good racer and builder in his late teens and managed to get his hands on a couple of Globe motors. I was running early 16D stuff at the time in my Cox,Dynamic, home built chassis, and had just gotten my hands on some early Mura armatures.  The son saved up the money and sent both Globe motors off to Globe to have the armatures rewound and the motor magnets zapped. 

 

When they came back, they were a thing of beauty and he put one of them in one of his very nice scratchbuilt chassis and started breaking it in.  I can remember that it didn't have brakes for squat, but it was fast.  He regeared it to get a little more brake and we raced against each other that night and he broke the track record for lap total.  I coudn't even keep up with him on the straights , and gained a little in the corners.

 

It was only after I built a new chassis and got my hands on a little stronger Mura arm with an endbell that wouldn't frag after 15 minutes that I could outrun that thing.  Those Globes were potent in their day, but I don't ever remember one that had really good brakes, even after coming back from Globe and getting a complete rebuild and zapping.

[Paul Kovich]

Just curious, but why not grind the shaft down to a diameter that has more pinion availability. The same way eurosport racers go from a 2mm shaft to a 1.5mm to use 6 tooth 80 pitch gears ?

[TSR]

I have a friend who said he ran for Team Veristec and always complained about having a hard time being competitive with the SS-101, because IIRC, he said the smallest pinion you could get was a 10t.

 

And of course, that was a 48-pitch pinion that made things worse...

[MSwiss]

I thought of the same solution, but hesitated to suggest because of the danger ruining the arm.

 

Bob,

If do decide to do it, of course practice the technique you are going to use on a couple motors/arms that you have zero emotional attachment to.

[don.siegel]

By the way, I tach'ed a couple of these, and they did run at least 40k minimum, at least the ones that were working well... I think the best was about 47,000. No, this wasn't huge compared to the top rewinds, but remember these came out in 64, when a 20k motor would have been considered hot... The SS101 was rated at 53,000 rpm. 

[TSR]

Mine runs like a raped ape...

[MSwiss]

 

And of course, that was a 48-pitch pinion that made things worse...

IIRC, his semi-heyday was still in the inline era.

 

Did the serious inline racers ever use 64P ?

 

Or even was there such a thing ?

 

When I  first met him at the hobby shop,  I eventually went to work at, it was the advent of anglewinders and he seemed pretty far removed

from competitive slot racing.

[Gator Bob]

I thought of the same solution, but hesitated to suggest because of the danger ruining the arm.

 

Bob,

If do decide to do it, of course practice the technique you are going to use on a couple motors/arms that you have zero emotional attachment to.

 

No way... I have some other arms that were 'turned down' ... one that I should have too...lol 

eBay

 

I'm a scared to even 'open' this one.  But.... I probably will.