91 replies to this topic

[dc-65x]

A 36D POWERED R&C PRO CAR!

 

I couldn't help myself......"I got's ta know!" That is I've got to see how a 36D inline would run in 1966 R&C garb with a rewound motor and a low slung inline chassis.

 

My plan is still very, ah, "gaseous"........kind of like when the universe was first forming.    The plan is not completely solidified yet except that it will be 36D powered and a Sports or GT Car. I'm not even sure if this project will be a "What If" Team Russkit, or RAM or whatever type build.

 

Here is the beginning of the madness:

 

 

A couple of choices for a motor is this early Lenz rewind I got from Dave Lenz, Bob's younger brother:

 

 

 

I've also got a really cool French rewound arm:

 

 

Here's a few 36D inline motor brackets:

 

 

Here are a few of the bodies I could use:

 

 

 

 

Right now I mocking things up with my Rick's Jig to see how everything would fit inside the various bodies. This is the Lancer Ford GTX:

 

 

This is a cool Revell Genie Ford I've always wanted to build:

 

 

I love these R&C style cars!

[Jairus]

Just crazy enough that it just might work.... 

[SlotStox#53]

I love these R&C cars aswell Rick

Certainly looking forward to seeing a 36D inline powered one that's for sure!!!

Nice little selection of motors bodies etc to choose from don't know what's more appealing ,the Lenz complete or that nice French wound arm!

[dc-65x]

That French arm is tempting. It has some timing cranked in and is only .45 ohms. Maybe some ARCO magnets..........

 

It is also nice to be able to use some of the scale bodies with the giant wheel wells of the period. My rear tires have to be 1 1/8" in a non-hypoid gear setup with a 1/16" track clearance. I might as well put some 1" tires on the front.

 

Decisions, decisions!

[Hworth08]

Hoping someone would try a big block!

The first commercial track I ran on in 1965 was a modified figure 8 and about a 100 foot with short straights. The torque of the 36D's made them competitive and the short straights were actually an advantage of sorts. Either a Pittman type or 36D was more than a 16D could handle on that track.

That store stopped racing slots and the next track was big 240 foot Engleman. The 36d's were so fast on the straights that we couldn't get them stopped! The Pittmans couldn't hold up with the just released 26D motors. When Champion released the better 507 style motors they were the King!

The 36D could wail down the straights with the by then common 707 as fast as any Mura or Champion 517. But they just couldn't get slowed down. When the tires got some grip the rein of the 36 ended.

[SlotStox#53]

Great to hear about those honking great 36d's ruling the roost for a while!!! Love the sound of them hurtling down the straights, bet it was quite a spectacle!!!

What year did the 707 come out Don?

Love those big arches Rick, grabbed a shark racing shell "Hussein" off epay the other day, its a beauty! With large arches (wheel wells)

This large motor,large tire theme for R&C cars is just so cool !!

[dc-65x]

Thanks for the insight on the 36D Don. At my raceway in SoCal I only remember running the Kemtron's and Pittman's and then......BAM! We were rewinding the 16D Mabuchi's. One vivid memory I have is one of my rewinds catching fire down the main straight.

 

I think my lack of experience with the 36D has fueled my interest in "seeing it move". So, I buzzed up this sorry Champion 707 on the power supply:

 

 

When I then buzzed up the Lenz and the Bay Area powerhouse sounded pretty strong........so I popped it open to see what there was to see:

 

 

She's got a French-Tradeship comm, mild timing and reads .7 ohms Here she is spruced up a bit:

 

 

Here's a comparo on the timing with the French arm on the right:

 

 

This is fun!

 

[Hworth08]

The CW arm appears like the classic Lenz arm of the period. The green cast on the stack is from dipping in high temperature varnish. From what I've learned from my recent dipping, Lenz would let theirs hang and drip a day or so and then bake. The dipping varnish stays "wet" a couple weeks or so if it's not baked dry. By letting it drip several hours the coating on the stack is smooth. Mura seems to have only let theirs drip till they stopped dripping and then baked. Result is the varnish on the stack is rougher with some bubbles, Lenz is smooth and prettier.

I first thought the Tradeship arm was using aggressive advertising listing .045 ohms. After seeing the windings I wonder if it ohms that HIGH! LOL Ain't much wire there. George Jones would say that one was hotter than a $2 pistol.

And Paul, the 707 came out about mid-1966. The RTR with the sidewinder aluminum frame was a good tough car and real popular with the non-scratch builders at our track. Expensive but a real good seller and fast down the straights when powered with the 707.

[Champion 507]

Hi Rick,

 

Here's my 2¢ worth:

 

1. Lenz motors are cool, especially since you got it from a Lenz family member. However, I see a stock brown Mabuchi comm on this one. It might hold together, but not very bullet froof in my opinion. To me, the motor looks like nothing more than a rewound Revell SP600 with a FT36D endbell. That's not a downgrade, just an observation. Why take a chance on destroying a nice original piece?

 

2. The French, to me, would be a step up, especially since it has one of their comms on it.

 

3. Not because I'm a Champion fan but because the 707 is just a more bullet proof motor. You know about the story about 3 of them setting a world's endurance record back in the day, a record that has never been broken to this day. For the day, they had the best comms, the best magnets and ugly but good balancing. They came with can ball bearings and if you can find one, their own free breathing Celcon endbell...all period korrekt for what you want to do. But if it doesn't buzz up to what you think you're gonna need, it's kinda a moot point.

 

Anyway, that's my observation. You always build first class stuff and this one will be no exception.

 

Onward, sir

[Steve Okeefe]

Rick,

 

Cool idea!  

 

Something I'm sure you know but have not mentioned yet... 

 

With a motor as big and powerful as the 36D, this does not have to be a super-light weight car!  In fact, given that it is a tall motor, you're gonna need some weight down low (in the chassis) to keep the C.G. down.

[don.siegel]

One of the faster cars in our vintage racing is an inline 707 in a Dynamic frame, with several large chunks of lead! It uses cut down Candies, since we have no glue racing and allow silicones, and that thing is a rocketship. 

 

In other words, yes, weight is good in this case. 

 

Another excellent looking project Rick... I mounted one of those Tradeship arms in a stock SP600 in a Revell Cobra, but don't remember being very impressed with it - of course, I just tried it quickly and didn't do any tuning, so that may not have been a fair test! 

 

And thanks for the anecdote Don - in fact, I was always struck by a Car Model race report from about 69 or even 70, where a 36D powered car won a race on a Figure 8... 

 

Don 

 

PS: here's a photo of the 36D winning car, but I don't seem to have indicated the date! 

 

[/UR

another strange 36D car from about that time, whenever it was...

 

[URL=http://s56.photobucket.com/user/dgersh/media/Print/36DFWDstocker.jpg.html]

[Hworth08]

Hi Rick,
 
Here's my 2¢ worth:
 
1. Lenz motors are cool, especially since you got it from a Lenz family member. However, I see a stock brown Mabuchi comm on this one. It might hold together, but not very bullet froof in my opinion. To me, the motor looks like nothing more than a rewound Revell SP600 with a FT36D endbell.

A good chance the Lenz is just a stock rewound Revell, most likely when this arm was wound there wasn't a single after-market item available. Even the brush holder end bell and pins are probably an update.

I've got two early arms like that one that arrived in French cans. Both had blown comms. An identifying feature to it's early age is the white spacer on the can end.

Very unusual 36 powered cars Don, a real nice post!

[dc-65x]

Lots of interesting info guys, thanks! I not very informed about 36D's so I appreciate the insight.

 

The comments about the Lenz were especially insightful. I remember Dave Lenz telling me how his brother started out in slots. He was working as a Senior Mechanical Technologist at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. A Technologist is a sort of "jack of all trades". They can weld, machine, design, precision assemble and do some electronics. I forget what exact slot car he started out with at his local track but it was powered by a 36D. Just like Tim Allen on the Tool Time TV show, he wanted more power so he "rewired it!"

 

Dave's most vivid memory of working for his brother was testing Lenz motors before putting them in their packages. He said he quickly learned to hold the motors by the sides of the can. If they blew up and you were holding on over the top and bottom can cutouts, well, you only did that once!

[n.elmholt]

 

I got this babe from a Slotblog auction - would that be a suitable motor for this kind of project ??

 

Niels, DK

[Tex]

More Havlicek sweetness! Beauty!

[gluebomb]

Very much looking forward to this build - I'd love to see you build up that Lancer 330 P3 but whatever you do here will be awesome I'm sure !

[Champion 507]

Professor Motor sells NOS Champion 707 arm blanks:

 

http://www.professor...t-p/mot3698.htm

[dc-65x]

That French arm is tempting. It has some timing cranked in and is only .45 ohms. Maybe some ARCO magnets..........

 

It is also nice to be able to use some of the scale bodies with the giant wheel wells of the period. My rear tires have to be 1 1/8" in a non-hypoid gear setup with a 1/16" track clearance. I might as well put some 1" tires on the front.

 

Decisions, decisions!

 

I goofed! But it's a good thing:

 

 

By the way, not to be picky about it, but the 36D is .885" tall, which means you "should" get a solid 1/16" track clearance with only 1.032" (not 1.125") rear tires and no hypoid...

 

Steve

 

Time to reevaluate my wheel and tire choices..............

[Steve Okeefe]

 

[SlotStox#53]

Nothing like a sweet BIG BLOCK

Wonders what the new wheel & tire choices will be

[n.elmholt]

Rick, Steve, would the Havlicek motor be acceptable for a recreation in this categori ?? 

 

Niels, DK

[dc-65x]

Hi Niels,

 

A Champion 701 36D motor was certainly available in 1966, although I bet not is a finely built as you John H version! I would think you can certainly build a R&C car using it.

 

However, if you review the period race reports you'll see that the 36D motor is not listed as being used by the top racers. I'm using one in this build because I enjoy seeing how various motors compare with the standard 16D Mabuchi's and Hemi's.

 

So please build on!

 

Be sure to read the original R&C rules posted and if you ask, we will be happy to make sure your components were available during the 1966 series.

[SlotStox#53]

Rick ,would the post protectors of been on the 36D's in '66? As reading in the rules and looking at the pictures ,plus with what You,Steve,PdL say they weren't thought of for the 16ds that early..

Or could that be considered as part of the "what if" ?

[dc-65x]

Good point Paul. All the pre-1967 Champion magazine ads I have show their motors without post protectors. None of the pictures in the race reports show them. They should come off.

[Hworth08]

Needs verifying but there might not have been post protectors yet because there weren't any springs with large enough holes to fit over a protector.

 

We "recovered" end bells where the spring had melted into the post by cutting off the delrin post, drilling a 16th hole in the center of the original post, and using 3/32nds tubing held with a 2-56 screw. Springs will fit over that size tubing. Drawback was having to remove the screw if any spring work was required.