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Building an old-fashioned padlock-powered drag car


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#1 Gator Bob

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 11:40 PM

Something I've been messing with.

 

All NOS parts.

 

Tasks to complete:

  1. Install bracket for com. wet wiper.
  2. Add body mounts
  3. True rear tires
  4. Find a set of matching fronts (or change rears)
  5. Send body out for paint
  6. Mount body
  7. Fill fuel tank with Nitromethane / horn Castor Oil mix   :good:
  8. peelout.gif

IMG_2602s.jpg


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#2 bluecars

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 08:10 AM

:) That brings back some memories. Is that a Pitman or a Kemtron? Never seen one of those com wet wipes. It looks like a great idea. That reminds me, I need to get to work on my Ram 222 car. I have all the stuff just not the time. Maybe if I hide my laptop from myself. LOL!!! :sarcastic_hand:


Robert "Red" Valantine :diablo: 


#3 Joe Mig

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 09:25 AM

What are you going to use for a body?
Joseph Migliaccio. Karma it's a wonderful thing.

"Drive it like you're in it!!!"

"If everything feels under control... you are not going fast enough!"

Some people are like Slinkies... they're really good for nothing... but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

#4 Gator Bob

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 10:01 AM

Hey Red, that is Kemtron power. :bb:  I think you're too busy prepping cars and winning races but .... make some room on the bench for the 222

 

Joe, I set the wheelbase and track width for a  :secret:  1963 Plymouth Valiant 2dr body bought from Pattos.   


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#5 George Blaha

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 10:34 AM

hey gator,

 

Your Kemtron powered brass chassis is really the most. Show us the way to make the fine wire straight contacts from lamp cord innards or lead wire. Love it!

 

Shakey George

 

P.S. What voltage class ?



#6 Lone Wolf

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 12:53 PM

Very cool. Ditch that Rannalli guide and plastic spur. Just my opinion

 

Why not go with an AWB hard body like these. Rear wheel wells moved forward on both. These are a real hoot to race. They wheelie to about half track and then settle down softly like a real car.

 

DSC03371.JPG

 

DSC03372.JPG

 

How about a proxy race for drag cars. Four classes, scratchbuilt chassis, store bought chassis, Big motors like DC85, Ram 857 et al and another class for DC65,any Kemtron etc.  No holds barred on motor mods, anything goes, run what you brung. Every part must be vintage.  Anybody?


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Joe Lupo


#7 Mark Johnson

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 05:47 PM

No holds barred on motor mods ??? I'm game .



#8 endbelldrive

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 06:56 PM

...How about a proxy race for drag cars. Four classes, scratchbuilt chassis, store bought chassis, Big motors like DC85, Ram 857 et al and another class for DC65,any Kemtron etc.  No holds barred on motor mods, anything goes, run what you brung. Every part must be vintage.  Anybody?

Me and Proxy deadlines have been an "issue" the last few years...but I figure I'd better do something with my old junk.  Uncle Fred (Correnti) is a wealth of information on the old magwinders.  I've always wanted one but they cost an arm and leg and another arm these days.

 

Vintage AMT 40 Willys flip front Gasser and a vintage Revell Fiat

000_0320a.jpg

 

Old funky Aurora 1934 Fords from 1962 or 3

gallery_396_336_67465.jpg


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#9 Lone Wolf

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 07:22 PM

Bob, I'm with you on obtaining a complete Magwinder, on the cusp of unobtanium. I have one and a half unfinished Magwinders from the 60's. Not mine, somebody else started them. Been a dream of mine to complete them. They need so much work and I'm currently not up to all that drilling,filing etc.

 

Love your body choices. Willys and Fiat are AMT and currently available for trim pieces etc. Those Aurora Fords are very rare. If you have the whole kit don't pirate the bodies, if not, who cares. Go ahead and use them.


Joe Lupo


#10 Hworth08

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 07:48 PM

Maybe re-think a Proxy drag race. Can't remember the details other than to just get the story started but perhaps Howie had a car disqualified in a big, maybe Car/Model, proxy race not because it was illegal but was way faster than it was supposed to be. Details just not clear but maybe occurred in 1966 or 67.


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#11 Lone Wolf

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 08:02 PM

Just for fun, no real strict rules. Heads up run what ya brung. Fastest car in class wins. Simple as that. I think Sandy had a 1/32 drag car with a Ferrari body disqualified as well. Much faster than anything else, just did not pass tech. Maybe that's the car you are thinking of Don.


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#12 boxerdog

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 08:29 PM

I like the proxy idea. No track prep, toggle switch even start!!

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#13 Hworth08

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 09:29 PM

Joe,

 

You may be right, Sandy and Howie were sort of...twins at that time. I just mentioned the story hoping someone did remember all the details.


Don Hollingsworth

#14 Gator Bob

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 11:22 PM

Wow ... lots of interest in vintage drags.

 

This is what I was thinking.... a Ramchargers 413 powered SS/SA pushbutton (left thumb :good:)  Mopar lightweight.

Pattos list this body as a 1963 but it really is a 62.

1962 predates the AWB A/FX class creation in NHRA by one year, the new models would be on the dealers showroom in the Sept. time frame. That would make the 62 Valiant available in Sept. of 1961. :victory:

IMG_2615s.jpg

 

 

 

hey gator,

 

Your Kemtron powered brass chassis is really the most. Show us the way to make the fine wire straight contacts from lamp cord innards or lead wire. Love it!

 

Shakey George

 

P.S. What voltage class ?

George,

I think I know what you're saying and I will go for it ... yes it will get the WireGator treatment ... love the idea and thanks for the inspiration.

 

Class... LOL... I've been told I have none.

Voltage ... low ..  local 1000 footer is 14.8 IIRC

 

Very cool. Ditch that Rannalli guide and plastic spur. Just my opinion

 

Why not go with an AWB hard body like these. Rear wheel wells moved forward on both. These are a real hoot to race. They wheelie to about half track and then settle down softly like a real car.

 

attachicon.gifDSC03371.JPG

 

attachicon.gifDSC03372.JPG

 

How about a proxy race for drag cars. Four classes, scratchbuilt chassis, store bought chassis, Big motors like DC85, Ram 857 et al and another class for DC65,any Kemtron etc.  No holds barred on motor mods, anything goes, run what you brung. Every part must be vintage.  Anybody?

Joe,

It's a Revell gear, I wanted to use 64p Weldun but tooo wide.

Cool cars you have there !

 

Proxy ... ??? :shok:  :clapping:

 

Me and Proxy deadlines have been an "issue" the last few years...but I figure I'd better do something with my old junk.  Uncle Fred (Correnti) is a wealth of information on the old magwinders.  I've always wanted one but they cost an arm and leg and another arm these days.

 

Vintage AMT 40 Willys flip front Gasser and a vintage Revell Fiat

attachicon.gif000_0320a.jpg

 

Old funky Aurora 1934 Fords from 1962 or 3

attachicon.gifgallery_396_336_67465.jpg

EBD, Looks like a great headstart for some 'nifty' hardbody cars :crazy:

 

I like the proxy idea. No track prep, toggle switch even start!!

Toggle Yes!

That car looks... 'Fun,Fun,Fun'   ;) Till Daddy'O keeps you in-line.  

 

============

Don, Join the fun !


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#15 boxerdog

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:03 AM

The Valiant is great!  My T-bird is a little crude-looking, not great body detail, but I wanted to build one of my old-time Kemtron frame kits and that's what happened many years ago.

 

It might be nice if we had 24v + like the "old" days, but if you've got a spot, we should race regardless. Padlocks and maybe open-frames only.


David Cummerow

#16 endbelldrive

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:35 PM

...Love your body choices. Willys and Fiat are AMT and currently available for trim pieces etc. Those Aurora Fords are very rare. If you have the whole kit don't pirate the bodies, if not, who cares. Go ahead and use them.

Hi, Joe

I got lucky last year and found another one buried in one of those online auctions for boxes of junk.  Could barely see a corner of it in the photos but took a chance anyway.  :dance4:

 

DSCN1069.JPG


Bob Suzuki

#17 Gator Bob

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:16 AM

There have been a few guys interested in a vintage drag proxy.

Can we get 16 cars for a proxy to run here in Sunny Florida? 

 

45621319.jpg

 

 

More than one car per person is OK. $5.00 per car entered.

One Trophy to the overall winner and a box plaque for car judged best appearing and best engineered.

Time slip for all runs.

Run them Heads-up with a DPST switch so it is all about the car.

 

 


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#18 don.siegel

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:36 AM

You betcha Bob!

 

How many volts would we run on?

 

Don


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#19 boxerdog

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:53 AM

Sure Bob...don't know about best engineered ,most of the period-correct stuff was pretty crude by today's standards. I'd be happy to send a couple of cars.


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#20 Uncle Fred

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:11 PM

Very cool......
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#21 Gator Bob

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:43 PM

Great !

 

With the growing interest I think it would be time to set the basic rules which is more of a vintage component timestamp.

 

Lets pick a 'no later than' year from the early to mid 1960s for the components ...

 

Don, I'll get the exact voltage and report back ... IIRC it's a low 14.8.


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#22 don.siegel

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:43 PM

Thanks Bob, that's kinda what I figured. 

 

We ran some vintage drags 8 years ago or so in Bordeaux, alongside the vintage race, and I think we used a 16V power pack. Very interesting: at that voltage, the rewound Mabuchis were definitely faster than the laminated pole motors, although I'm sure we hadn't tuned them anywhere near their potential... If I remember right, I was turning about 1.7 seconds with some period DC85s or DC857s, and the fastest 36Ds were more like 1.3 or maybe a bit better... But the track was nowhere near level enough and there were also a lot of flying cars and breakage.... 

 

Time to break out the Graupners...

 

Don 



#23 Gator Bob

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:55 PM

I just confirmed the track voltage at 14.7.

No batteries...a power supply only with large storage capacitors.

 

As you can see in the picture it is a smooth and level surface.


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#24 George Blaha

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:20 PM

hey gator,

 

just do it.......the ups or usps man will get tired delivering the cars........charge enough to cover the shipping.........use some really good batteries and various voltages to have an American stock car class all the way to AA fuel!

 

Shakey George Blaha

 

P.S. I'm ready!



#25 George Blaha

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:25 PM

hey gator,

 

I was typing while you were entering information,.........sorry........but I'm still ready.......no matter what! 

 

 

Shakey but humbler George



#26 Bill from NH

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:35 PM

Bob, do they have cars hitting the windows at the end of the shut-down area? Or is this an optical illusion?

Bill Fernald
 

My wife says I don't pay enough attention to her, or something like that.  :unknw:


#27 Gator Bob

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:52 PM

Bob, do they have cars hitting the windows at the end of the shut-down area? Or is this an optical illusion?

  I've never seen it but I think some did before the GLUED Shutdown and foam/soft pillow as a last resort. Standing a the starting line it could be an optical illusion till you here the sound ^_^  :laugh2:

 

But .... We hit and go out the door off the green oval to the left, 4.5" FCR Dirt Late Models hit the glass really Hard :shok:

Of course we all (except for the guy who car it is) get a good :laugh2:   out of it. .... "TRAckkk "... BANG!

Marshalls could use a cup  :heat:


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#28 Gator Bob

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 01:14 AM

Here is what I'm thinking...

 

I was just putting an old drag car together for the fun of it, now if we all get to race it's fun x16.

 

Some rough ideas with trying to keep it simple and real for the first round - please share any of your ideas.

 

  • Sixteen 'run what you brung" cars.
  • Full power on starts.
  • ALL Vintage parts or hand made - Guide flags to wires and tires.
  • Only laminated motors, any mods - no Neo or Cobalt magnets.
  • Bodies - Reproduction or vintage - hard body model, vacuum pulled clear,  or hand craft made (wood, tin, plastic, brass, etc.).
  • No modern Pro/Mod looking bodies regardless of year the concept was created from Parma promod s.jpg . you get the idea
  • I'm looking for some help on the cut off year for components... What do you guys think?

Edited by Gator Bob, 01 February 2014 - 10:23 AM.

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#29 don.siegel

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 04:51 AM

Hi Bob, 

 

That sounds good; I'm just not too clear on the bodies - no hard bodies? Seems like anything vintage or vintage looking would be fine. 

 

For the cutoff date, I'd say something like 1968; there didn't seem to be much drag activity after that, until the revival, but I'm not really that up to date on the drag scene. 

 

In any case, with the stipulation of vintage parts and laminated motors, that pretty much defines it. Also, how about all open frame motors in general? There were a fair number of DC706 type motors in the early years - probably wouldn't be competitive, but would be even easier to build a dragster! And then of course there's the Pittman DC9003 boat motor... 

 

Don 



#30 Gator Bob

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 11:12 AM

I clarified the body rules, it was confusing the way it was written. Let me know if it is clear and simple after the edit.

 

Good point on the DC706 type as open frame.  I was thinking along the lines of the "Heavyweights" which is why I didn't put open frame.

IMO the DC706 is a 'heavyweight' but the 196, 66, in-line types are lightweights.

I would be fine with "laminated OR open frame" motors if you guys want that option.  

 

BTW, Approximately 1/24th scale Body Cars and Rail Jobs, ..... i.e. No 1/32nd scale body cars 196 powered VWs. if  'open frame' motors are approved.

 

Keep in mind I missed this whole 'commercial' high voltage drag race scene back in the day and look to those that were there for guidance.  

As far as time/date/year for components I was thinking about the 'pre-Mabuchi invasion' period for these cars.

 

I didn't want to put a min. weight rule but have been thinking "Heavy Honker" type cars and motors are totally 'retro - flashback'.

 

The older the better... and the less rules the better 'run what you brung' concept.


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#31 don.siegel

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 11:44 AM

That sounds good Bob. In fact, I'd allow all open frame motors, since they were all available at the time - but I think the small ones would be at a pretty serious disadvantage because of lack of torque - I assume that's why they weren't used in 1/24 at the time... But either way is okay for me. 

 

Here's a couple shots of period dragsters from my photo archives. Starting with a short wheelbase magwinder - the usual Ram adaptation if I remember right. 

 

Magwindershort2.jpg

 

Magwindershort3.jpg

 

A more conventional magwinder setup, although a little the worse for wear...

 

Magwinder1.jpg

 

Magwinder2.jpg

 

And a rather interesting Mustang funny car with a homemade motor - ring magnet and all! 

 

Mustangmagwinderdragster.jpg

 

Mustangmagwinderchassis1.jpg

 

Mustangmagwinderchassis2.jpg

 

And a period chassis I found on ebay, which I'm pretty sure is the same as one featured in a Car Model article on a drag race, made of brass tubing for a Pittman DC704 type motor - which is why I thought of those! 

 

DragsterPittman705.jpg

 

Don 


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#32 Paul Jurczyszyn

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 01:40 PM

God looking at those heavy motors I can't believe that they could be fast. Compared to today's motors.lol
Nice start ill be watching.
Parma Paul
Humble student of the master slotters

#33 Lone Wolf

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 01:57 PM

Bob S, nice find on the Ford. Don, very cool stuff. Especially love the "shaved" motor on the rail.

 

As far as rules, I think 1966 should be the cutoff for bodies and parts. Most all slot cars were "can" powered after that.

 

I would like to see two classes. One for the "big" motors, Ram 857, DC85, big Strombecker etc. Then another class for DC65, Kemtrons, KTM etc, etc. Anything but a can that can be verified pre '66.

 

I for one would have no problem turning up the volts especially on the big motors. Be sure to wear googles for flying com chunks and rubber bits though :laugh2:

 

Last question would be should there be a separate class for rail jobs and one for everything else. Other than that I say we leave it wide open for fun and imagination.


Joe Lupo


#34 don.siegel

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 02:05 PM

The "rail and everything else" sounds like a good classification Bob. 

 

Not sure about the Kemtron/KTM motors - they were pretty much the same thing as the big Pittmans and Rams, maybe a tiny bit smaller, but same general layout. Not sure it's worth making motor classes - it's all friendly competition, so let the ETs decide! 

 

I would think the big Pittmans and Rams would hold up pretty well under higher voltage, especially if epoxied and tied (and the Ram coms were welded), but the Kemtrons had a reputation for blowing up more frequently (they were cheaper and made in Japan - but a couple I've seen seem to have more pure speed, maybe because they came in 4, 6 and 8 volt versions... )

 

Don 


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#35 Gator Bob

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 02:08 PM

That's what I'm talking about Don. Old stuff!

Joe, for starters 16 cars one anything goes class, if it grows we can split out classes.

 

 I would love to run at 24 or 36 battery volts but will not request the track owner to make any change to his system. IIRC, He took all batteries out for Code and Insurance reasons.

 

OK guys .. how about this?

 

  • No 'can' motors.
  • Component cutoff date Dec. 31st 1964

 

Steve's Independent Scratchbuilder history section as the timeline guide.

If not listed then a magazine ad or dated race report photo to be provided as evidence of eligibility.


Edited by Gator Bob, 01 February 2014 - 09:21 PM.

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#36 Lone Wolf

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 02:29 PM

Any rules are OK with me. What kind of time to build limit are we talking?

 

Just thought I'd add another cool drag car. This is an MPC original Mr. Unswitchable with a scratch built chassis. The car is currently under restoration. As always, I should have taken a prior pic. Body was a complete mess with the roof glued on crooked and 2 tubes of glue used for assembly, missing parts etc. Still needs to be rubbed out and finished.

Somebody was repoping the decals but now I can't find them anywhere :dash2:

 

DSC03387.JPG

 

DSC03388.JPG


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Joe Lupo


#37 Gator Bob

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 09:30 PM

Joe, that car is way beyond cool.... :sun_bespectacled:

The pipes out the top vs. Zoomies  puts the look 'over the top'.    :good:

 

Was there a real (1:1) flip-top Poncho that ran the exhaust out like that? :shok:


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#38 SlotStox#53

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 09:45 PM

It appears so Bob :D

 

Unswitchable 1.jpg

 

Unswitchable 2.jpg

 

Really neat design!  Love the MPC original Joe :D


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#39 Gator Bob

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 09:56 PM

Thanks Agent53,

:laugh2:  and it's a steel door car too. :laugh2:

 

I love it, I want it, ... but, why can't I remember it ... :dash2:   Oh  ** :lol: **  


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#40 SlotStox#53

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 10:09 PM

:laugh2:

 

scan 1.jpg

 

 

Love the idea of the padlock/Drag proxy Bob ... should be FUN :D



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Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:04 AM

Guys who are interested please 'sign up'.

 

So far;

 

Yes -

  • Don S.
  • Joe L.
  • David C. (2 cars?)
  • George B.
  • Bob I. (1st. alternate if less than 16 cars enter) 

Maybe -

  • Mark J.
  • Bob S.

 

Then those entering can weigh in on the component cut off date (and time needed to build cars).

  • Don is at 1968
  • Joe is at 1966

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#42 boxerdog

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 11:57 PM

I'm OK with either cutoff date-not sure what the implications might be or if it matters.

 

I'd like to ask about a little slack or clarification on tires...I know the Pro Tracks on my Tbird are out, they don't look right at all. But black tires and solid rims might make them pretty close...most of my vintage rubber stuff is dried up and I don't feel like playing Ebay these days. It's your call, I can clean up the wires and such no problem. Also, some of the vintage guides might not trip the track sensors correctly, not sure, like the white dynamics.

 

As far as the magwinder stuff goes, we ran them without bodies around here, I assume that was pretty normal??


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#43 mdiv

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:26 PM

Bob,

 

I get RTR cars from a guy named Herm and I just asked him if he'd build me a Dubro VW Bug with a hot kemtron paddock motor in it; problem is if I remember right he's closed jan 1 - april 1.  If I can get this going I'll let you know.

Mikey


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#44 Lone Wolf

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:51 PM

Paul, thanks for posting the pics. Mikey, I have parts here if you need them.


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Posted 03 February 2014 - 02:39 PM

Joe, cool!  You got a PM.

Mikey


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#46 Gator Bob

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:13 PM

I guess it's just a 'time capsule' thing.

 

I'm OK with either cutoff date-not sure what the implications might be or if it matters.

 

I'd like to ask about a little slack or clarification on tires...I know the Pro Tracks on my Tbird are out, they don't look right at all. But black tires and solid rims might make them pretty close...most of my vintage rubber stuff is dried up and I don't feel like playing Ebay these days. It's your call, I can clean up the wires and such no problem. Also, some of the vintage guides might not trip the track sensors correctly, not sure, like the white dynamics.

 

As far as the magwinder stuff goes, we ran them without bodies around here, I assume that was pretty normal??

Modern rubber n' bits sure are tempting but some guys might just want to bring out an old ride, change the braids, soak the tires and just run for pure vintage fun.

 

Rail jobs without bodies like the Magwinders are encouraged.

 

Bob,

 

I get RTR cars from a guy named Herm and I just asked him if he'd build me a Dubro VW Bug with a hot kemtron paddock motor in it; problem is if I remember right he's closed jan 1 - april 1.  If I can get this going I'll let you know.

Mikey

 

WTG Mikey !!!  :clapping:

I bet you were not around when padlocks were in fashion. 

 

"Let Mikey try it" ...  "He likes everything"  :good:


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#47 SlotStox#53

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:09 PM

Just out of curiosity , what sort of chassis would you recommend looking out for to put one of these padlock motor'd Dragsters together? Bearing in mind epay would be the main source of hunting!

Kemtron  or one of the many 2 sided frame chassis for these particular motors be ok?



#48 boxerdog

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 10:14 PM

I am going to dig around and see what I can find as far as rubber, I will keep my stuff as original as I can. Really sounds like a blast!


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Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:16 PM

Paul,

It's wide open ... Kemtron, Rinnalli, Cox, Dynamic, any metal Brass, Alum., Copper, Steel, Magnesium, for scratch frames.

Heck .. you can make it out of a old tin toy or piece of copper pipe...

The only rail job I had back in the day was made with parts from an Erector set and an Atlas motor/parts out of my 1/32 Ferrari. At 8 or 9 years old it felt like a major accomplishment.

 

Guys,

I don't intend to ask the track owner for a special track cleaning or know how that is scheduled ....

The track is 'gluey' so vintage rubber might not be an issue ... as long as they are still round after sitting on the car in your box for 45 years .. LOL

 

Anyone that gets stuck and can't find what they need to finish a car... send me a PM and I will help out if I have it.

 

Fun ... like this  or .....  This  :D


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#50 SlotStox#53

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:52 AM

Thanks Bob :good: no need to put my name down yet ... Will have a look to see what bits I can find... . way too many projects backing up :laugh2: :shok: Look forward to seeing what Dragsters emerge for the proxy :D







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