163 replies to this topic

[Bryan Warmack]

FWIW here, since the West Coast has gone through all this FK motor tampering stuff in the past and it still continues now with the magnet zapping...
 

 
Early on I made an attempt to see if I could open one of these motors and do it such a manner that it would be undetectable. At first I just used a small punch to just open the tabs enough to remove the end bell which is rather tight. I made a fixture with a very small internal step machined out of aluminum tube so the motor can be held securely when pushing the end bell out. I took it apart and simply just put it all back together with the same small punch. Upon inspection the evidence of tampering is minimal but when you compare it to a stock motor the damage to the small tabs can clearly be seen.
     
Next I decided to make a small set of pliers to see if I could keep the damage to the tabs and surrounding plating to a minimum. I ground up some Harbor Freight needle nose to be able to push the tab back instead of hammering on it. No problem and the end bell was easily removed and replaced. Again the evidence was minimal but still the tabs could be clearly seen to have been damaged.
 
At a later date I made another, better set of pliers, and tried again. This time the overall damage was a bit better but if you know exactly what you are looking for and compare it to an untampered motor the damage is again easy to spot. We're not talking about something that is obvious at first glance as everything is so small, and if you took 10 motors and took apart 5 and had a few racers try to tell the difference and didn't tell them what the difference was, I don't think they could spot them... But if you showed them the difference, here is what the opened ones look like and here is what stock looks like I think they all could identify the bent tabs. I tried to post some pics but my camera doesn't do the job but basically the damage is exactly what you would expect. Metal distortion, misalignment, plating damage, etc, etc. Very small but very noticeable especially when compared to stock unbent tabs. I'm not saying that it is ABSOLUTELY impossible to get one of these things apart without any evidence... Maybe some special plastic pliers and tools but you would still have the subtle surface damage to the plating. Maybe a lot more time and determination. If you tell some people not to do something or that it can't be done that simply motivates some competitors to see if they can do it!  I've spent (wasted but necessary) a lot of time and so far I haven't come up with anything that can't be spotted immediately if you know what to look for. I'm sure as I write this someone is thinking up ways to crack these things open... We've ran into a couple out here that looked like they were set upon by a chisel!!   We let em go through tech and just watched and none were faster. We certainly have been watching... for a long time... and now we have magnet zapping and the debate rages on and NOTHING one way or another settled here. A suggestion has been made to just go back to hand-out motors for EVERY race and also install multiple surveillance cameras!
 
Also I have several Falcons that clearly have comm timing modifications and clearly haven't been opened. One runs good and maybe better than normal and one runs OK??? Just SO many variables, and SO many opinions, and so few facts about what is basically just a cheap throwaway motor. 
 
When the TSR D3s first came out Pete Zimmerman and myself took several apart just to see what made them tick. Pete went on a quest to see if he could improve them and I was just watching. Pete said he tweeked the comms, dewound them, shimmed the magnets, ground the magnets, moved the magnets, zapped the magnets... tried just about everything reasonable to improve them and just gave up and said, "These things are pieces of s**T and they'll always be pieces of s**t!!" Pete spent a lot of time trying to tweek these things and never ran a tampered motor that I was aware of and never ran anything that was so fast as to be suspect.  Pete was also later to be heard one time after a rough day on the Kingleman, "These pieces of s**t are too f*****g fast!!" Only Pete!

I'll add anything relevant as it shows up out here... :heat

[Phil Hackett]

The protesting thing works. A little story: back in the 1990s Dennis Hill and Mark Brown were racing the USRA Group 15 series locally. I would hear every Monday after raceday about all the cheaters and how fast their motors were... I finally got a little tired of hearing about it and one Friday before the race I took out a $100 bill and handed it to them and told them "Here is money for protesting. Use it if you must but at least give me a big story on Monday."

 

The following Monday they came into work and said it was amazing that when they entered the track and pulled out the $100 bill and declared it was protest money that many of the racers ran back to their boxes and changed motors.... for slower ones... That $100 bill was never used but the motor problem went away and stayed away for that entire year...

[jimht]

Ron's   ability to stir things up is undeniable, and just like Ken O, the smoke and mirrors allow him to smile all the way to the bank... when it works.

 

His current inability to supply product indicates his plans may have gone somewhat awry... but all this free advertising is certainly keeping him in the public eye while he sorts it out.

 

And, he can thank the OP for that.

[Hot Deuce]

My opinion... if there are people who are cheating to win, then they really haven't won. I hope they are happy with their plaques, must make them proud when they look at it hanging on the wall (then again, they probably just throw them in a box in a dusty corner of their basement).
 
Some people just have no pride... but I refuse to allow that to affect my enjoyment of racing slot cars. You have to wonder what other parts of life they "cheat" at?

 
The point is - they think they win because they are smarter than you and can rub your face in it. After following previous posts, I'm sure they see the plaques as an example of their superior intelligence.

[usadar]

We are "racing" slot cars. Let us have fun and thrill of fair competition.

Although at home I enjoy watching crime dramas such as Law & Order, Criminal Intent, I prefer "racing" at raceways.
 
Good Racing,
 
Haruki

[MSwiss]

When the TSR D3s first came out Pete Zimmerman and myself took several apart just to see what made them tick. Pete went on a quest to see if he could improve them and I was just watching. Pete said he tweeked the comms, dewound them, shimmed the magnets, ground the magnets, moved the magnets, zapped the magnets... tried just about everything reasonable to improve them and just gave up and said, "These things are pieces of s**T and they'll always be pieces of s**t!!" Pete spent a lot of time trying to tweek these things and never ran a tampered motor that I was aware of and never ran anything that was so fast as to be suspect.  Pete was also later to be heard one time after a rough day on the Kingleman, "These pieces of s**t are too f*****g fast!!" Only Pete!

I'll add anything relevant as it shows up out here... :heat

Bryan,

Thanks for taking the time to post.
 
If anything, just to chronicle the escapades of the late Pete. LOL.
 
I too have my doubts that anyone could open one up without some indication they did. Especially in the case of the Retro Hawk and the IRRA™, with the heavy plating and the sharp eye of Noose.
 
And I also agree with Pete.
 
What are you going to do to improve them that can't easily be spotted from the big inspection hole? Advanced timing can easily be spotted.
 
And thank goodness the Retro Hawk and the other FKs have the comm better attached than older FKs.
 
Not sure if you ever raced a Falcon 5, but the impact of a crash would advance or retard the timing, and the car would speed up or slow down accordingly. LOL.

[John Streisguth]

John Lamb:
 
I cannot control how others think or what they think, I can only control what I think and do, and how I feel about what I do. I could not enjoy it if I had to cheat, that's just how I roll... if others cheat to win, so be it, in my mind they are losers at life.

[Gator Bob]

Not sure if you ever raced a Falcon 5, but the impact of a crash would advance or retard the timing, and the car would speed up or slow down accordingly. LOL

 
That's not where the term 'bump the timing' came from is it?
 
What about "knock balancing"?

[Dennis David]

Haruki,

 

If you like TV crime dramas you should watch the British ones like George Gently and especially Broadchurch.   

 

Brian, 

 

I love your story. 

[Samiam]

I cannot control how others think or what they think, I can only control what I think and do, and how I feel about what I do. I could not enjoy it if I had to cheat, that's just how I roll... if others cheat to win, so be it, in my mind they are losers at life.

John S,

I couldn't agree more. Any win secured by cheating is an empty one. Even if it goes undetected.
 
Pushing the rules to their limit or delving into the grey zone is one thing. But to blatantly engage in purposeful cheating is inexcusable. A real low life move.

 

 
 

[usadar]

If you like TV crime dramas you should watch the British ones like George Gently and especially Broadchurch.   

Dennis,

I like British ones, too: the Prime Suspect, Trial & Retribution, the Inspector Linly.

French one is also good, Spiral, but a little bit goofy.

Haruki

[Chewy]

Now, who wants ice cream?

[Gator Bob]

I'm on a diet but... OK
 
Burrrr  ... Won't be melting on you today... ay... Jeff?

[BackAgain]

Ron's description of how to cheat sounds like a big-hitting baseball player describing how to take steroids without being detected... and denying he does it...