163 replies to this topic

[Cheater]

So, is that the official opinion from the IRRA™ Board of Directors?

John,

Official opinions from the IRRA™ BoD are posted using the IRRA™ user name, so they are easy to discern.

[John Miller]

I posted before you edited your post and added:

If you want to ask that question officially, go to this LINK.

 
I didn't edit anything. You didn't read it correctly or Cheater edited my post.
 
Thanks for the link.

[Ralph Thorne]

So as long as the motor is zapped and no other mods are made it's legal from what I understand, is that correct?
 
Greg, I was assuming that was being all that was done. I'm not a motor guy so I really don't know exactly what can be done.
 
Is there a factory timing range these motors are set to?

[MSwiss]

Sounds like the Retro Hawk may have security issues...  Didn't the west coast guys weld the endbell to the can to prevent such antics?
 
When the Puppy Dog motors were perceived to have a security problem the TM Bod made the manufacturer add motors screws. 
 
Question to the TM BoD:  Will you consider having the manufacturer weld the endbell to the can on the Retro Hawk motor?  This would eliminate the doubt and controversy that they are being disassembled and worked on away from the track.

John,

We've been using and racing FK motors since 2007.
 
Why is it seven years later that you bring up that style of motor might have security issues?
 
Our last motor chairman served for five years and he never was concerned enough to push us into getting the cans welded.

[John Miller]

Read the above thread that Mike Swiss posted. That is why.

[MSwiss]

John, what is different about how a Retro Hawk is sealed vs how a Falcon 7 or TSR motor is sealed?

[John Miller]

Mike, it is my understanding that they can be disassembled and reassembled without detection. Welding will erase any doubt that they have been tampered with. I recall the West Coast guys welding them for just that reason, correct?
 
Isn't this the same reason for having Pro Slot add the motor screws to an already-sealed motor?

[MSwiss]

I recall the West Coast guys welding them for just that reason, correct?
 
Isn't this the same reason for having Pro Slot add the motor screws to an already-sealed motor?

The West Coast guys haven't woke up yet. LOL
 
They'll need to tell you for 100% certainty.
 
But if you go HERE, to the top and bottom shots of the winning cars, I don't detect any welds.
 
But who knows, maybe they are really neat?
 
As far as your bottom question, my unofficial opinion is you can't compare the adhesion of a foil seal vs the mechanical crimping of an FK motor.

[John Miller]

Here is a pic of a welded can to demonstrate that is was, and can be, done.

[John Streisguth]

My opinion... if there are people who are cheating to win, then they really haven't won. I hope they are happy with their plaques, must make them proud when they look at it hanging on the wall (then again, they probably just throw them in a box in a dusty corner of their basement).
 
Some people just have no pride... but I refuse to allow that to affect my enjoyment of racing slot cars. You have to wonder what other parts of life they "cheat" at?

[Phil Hackett]

[MSwiss]

Here is a pic of a welded can to demonstrate that is was, and can be, done.

Never said it wasn't ever done.
 
It just doesn't appear they do it anymore.
 
I certainly don't see anything like that on Retro Racer #1, Matt Bruce's winning Can-Am car at this year's Checkpoint.

[MSwiss]

John,

I talked to Bryan earlier and he confirmed they don't it anymore.
 
He said they did it for a few handout races 2-3 years ago, probably pre-SCRRA era.
 
He cites the reasons for discontinuing it as
1 - It was a pain in the ass.
2 - Some guys insisted the motors were slower than unwelded ones.
3 - He added he probably couldn't anymore, even if he thought it was necessary, because with his eyesight not being as keen as it used to be, he doubts he could consistently perform the somewhat tricky procedure.
 
John,

How does Ron and the LLC weld the Demon, Evil 9, Hawk 7, and Falcon 7 motors allowed in their Retro Flexi class?

[stemmy]

You could always cut the weld with a cutoff wheel on your Dremel. Then put a little solder on it when you reassembled or just weld it if you have a welder.

[John Miller]

How does Ron and the LLC weld the Demon, Evil 9, Hawk 7, and Falcon 7 motors allowed in their Retro Flexi class?

 
I don't know, why don't you ask Ron yourself.  Are you afraid to call him?

[MSwiss]

The point is you seem to expect us to do it, but don't expect Ron to.

[JerseyJohn]

To all of my friends,

Very few are involved in this turmoil. Most Retro racers don't care. They just want to have fun and race. The splitting of orgs is like a divorce where the friends of both are put in an awkward position to chose which one they support. NO ONE WINS as everyone is left with discord and bad feelings. He said, she said, it's there fault blah, blah , blah. What we have is hurt feelings acting out on the internet.

I don't know what the answer is but I think everyone should take a break from posting about this BS. Have a drink, smoke a bone, get laid. Whatever calms you down. To quote the Tina Turner song, "I don't care who is right or wrong, I don't want to fight any more."

Regards,

JJ

[Cheater]

The one aspect of all of this crap that really sticks in my craw is the attitude many exhibit suggesting that there's equal blame to portion out for both sides of this Retro situation and that's simply ignoring the facts.
 
We are where we are today in Retro because of the deliberate actions of one individual. Racers can choose to ignore it or sweep it under a rug, but it is an indisputable fact, like it or not.
 
Hitting the road for the R4 right now, so if anyone wants to tell me I'm full of feces on this claim, it'll be a while before I'll see the reply.

[John Miller]

Mike,
 
You are missing the point. There has always been a security issue with the FK motors in the past, and present. Look at what happened at the Sano in recent history.
 
Previously, no one ran the old FK against the Puppy Dogs because they didn’t live on most tracks. Now, with the new Retro Hawk, the game has changed as it’s a faster motor and lives longer. Kudos to Jerry for producing a viable FK motor.

Now, that the Retro Hawk may soon be the motor of choice because of the improvements, more guys will be running them and hence “working on them to find that extra bit of speed.” This is exactly what happened with the Puppy Dog motors. Guys were taking them apart, matching magnets, changing the timing on the arms, and et cetera, all in an attempt to find that extra bit of speed.
 
So, when a question is asked to discover, or consider an option to improve the security of the Retro Hawk, why do you get so defensive, change the subject, or turn this into an issue about Ron Hershman?

[MSwiss]

Sounds like the Retro Hawk may have security issues...

 
Then why did the LLC approve it, unwelded?
 

IRRA LLC MOTOR APPROVAL…

Effective Nov.1, 2013 the following motors will be legal for use in the IRRA LLC
Retro-Flexi class ONLY:

JK Retro Hawk motor

Revised Topline Falcon 7 motor

[John Miller]

Again, you need to talk to Ron and stop changing the subject... LOL.

[MSwiss]

You are missing the point. There has always been a security issue with the FK motors in the past, and present. Look at what happened at the Sano in recent history.
 
Previously, no one ran the old FK against the Puppy Dogs because they didn’t live on most tracks. Now, with the new Retro Hawk, the game has changed as it’s a faster motor and lives longer. Kudos to Jerry for producing a viable FK motor.

Now, that the Retro Hawk may soon be the motor of choice because of the improvements, more guys will be running them and hence “working on them to find that extra bit of speed.” This is exactly what happened with the Puppy Dog motors. Guys were taking them apart, matching magnets, changing the timing on the arms, and et cetera, all in an attempt to find that extra bit of speed..
 
So, when a question is asked to discover, or consider an option to improve the security of the Retro Hawk, why do you get so defensive, change the subject, or turn this into an issue about Ron Hershman?

Didn't see this post when I posted the last one.
 
As I said before, in my personal opinion it would be much easier to get PD seals printed than get a pr. of pliers/crimpers/whatever one would use to open an FK and not leave any marks.
 
Bottom line, John, welding isn't going to stop cheating.
 
The only way to stop cheating,is just like what I told guys when I worked at Koford,  is willing to protest the guys you suspect of it.
 
Complaining to me (when I worked at Koford) won't do any good.
 
End of story. Too much work to do.

[Gator Bob]

What JJ said, .... there was a divorce and that forces most people (read: family and friends) to choose sides.

Anyone that has been through it knows to some extent.

Get it straightened out  .. we are family.  

 

Taking this stuff so serious is harmful to your health. I know some make their livelihood at this but it is still not worth all the stress.

 

Check your blood pressure and your ego too.

 

Note: Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

[Gator Bob]

Notes:

 

• If you mind your own business more than your competitors it runs better.
• Phones work both ways. (send and receive calls).

[Gator Bob]

Then why did the LLC approve it, unwelded?
 
IRRA LLC MOTOR APPROVAL…

Effective Nov.1, 2013 the following motors will be legal for use in the IRRA LLC
Retro-Flexi class ONLY:

JK Retro Hawk motor

Revised Topline Falcon 7 motor

 
Because Ron is the biggest cheater the whole slot car world has ever known.