1441 replies to this topic

[Guillermo Suar]

I have a question for the BoD - Do you think we might make bearings an option on Flexi GT? Aside from JK Spec, you have the option on every other class of IRRA™ cars. I'm just requesting that we allow ball bearings to be used on Flexi GT. To me it's a maintenance issue. While ball bearings COULD be more expensive initially, in the long run, they are actually cheaper.

This question was lost in the middle of the guide tongue debate, and I believe it deserves some more attention.

I was thinking exactly the same, and I would also ask it for the JK Spec class. Ball bearings not only save money in the long term because of the longer life (of the axle, too). They also allow a more precise setting of the gearing, extending the life of the crown gear and the pinion, because the side play is almost zero. This also adds reliability to the car, and it probably adds less than $3 to the total cost of a ready-to-run car.

[Noose]

It is still being addressed.

[Ron Hershman]

This question was lost in the middle of the guide tongue debate, and I believe it deserves some more attention.

I was thinking exactly the same, and I would also ask it for the JK Spec class. Ball bearings not only save money in the long term because of the longer life (of the axle too). They also allow a more precise setting of the gearing, extending the life of the crown gear and the pinion, because the side play is almost zero. This also adds reliability to the car, and it probably adds less than $3 to the total cost of a ready to run car.

I have never "worn out" an axle using oilite bushings. But then again, I use "drill blanks" for axles. Hint... Parma is the only one that sells true "drill blanks" for axles. So if you're using another brand... that's your problem in regards to worn axles.

In fact, most of my Can-Am cars have oilite bushings in them versus ball bearings. No problems with gears or axles.

As I have said many times before... most of these wear problems are caused by the oil some of you use.

One more time... 50W Mobil 1 Synthetic... that will cure most of your problems. Add in some Lucas Oil Treatment and that makes it even better.

[Jacob Shiplet]

As I have said many times before... most of these wear problems are caused by the oil some of you use.

One more time... 50W Mobil 1 Synthetic... that will cure most of your problems. Add in some Lucas Oil Treatment and that makes it even better.

I don't know, Ron, the "secret sauce" from Rick M. is the good stuff.

[Josh Crutchfield]

Josh,

No, you can't use two pieces of steel.

The guidelines have already been published here and on the IRRA™ website.


And this...


Mike's piece does not have to be approved. It meets specs as the rules are written.

Furthermore... Flexi nosepieces specifically aren't allowed.

Mike's piece is NOT cut from a Flexi chassis.

Mike's piece meets the current specs.

(posted for the IRRA™ Board by Joe Neumeister)

Thanks for the answer.

The rules don't state that the guide tongue is limited to one piece.

From the outside looking in it's hard to figure out why I need to purchase a steel guide tongue manufactured by an IRRA BoD Member when I can cut my own from a flexi chassis. Just the way I see it.

Josh

[Noose]

Josh, you buy bodies from an BoD member and you have bought painted painted bodies from me, a BoD member. I know you can paint your own. Mike just happened to make the piece and remember he is also a raceway owner and manufacturer.

The decision made by the BoD has nothing to do with the fact that Mike made the piece.

[Josh Crutchfield]

Noose,

My point is the BoD decided to make using the guide tongue of a Flexi illegal and now an identical piece is manufactured and is deemed legal to use.
I'm just trying to understand. They both look identical and serve the same function. The only difference is someone is going to profit from one and not the other.

With the BoD making the decision to eliminate the Flexi tongues I find it surprising someone on the BoD would reproduce an identical piece months later and it be usable.

Josh

[Noose]

They are not the same. One is from a center section (Flexi) which has been banned as noted here. The other is a piece made that is coined.

JK will not lose sales from the sale of Flexi center sections to make this part I'm sure. The piece was made to the rules, thus it is legal.

Also note the Flexi ban took effect 19 months ago, not just "months" later.

There is no need to discuss this any further.

[DirtyHairy]

Josh, I'm with you.

Tomato, tomatoe... potato, potatoe... How is the man in charge of tech going to say what's Mike's part or a Flexi part? If I take the plating off and I tell them that's how I cut it down... then who's to say? As long as it meets the requirements then there's no way for them to not allow it... Who's gonna tell me what part I used?... Or unless you are willing to say that you cut it off of a Flexi chassis, we'll just keep it a secret... I guess it's the same as filing a chassis compared to grinding it... what they don't know won't hurt them

If the piece is made or cut out... and it meets the size limitations then it should be allowed... There is no need to discuss it any further... That's something we all should agree on

[NJ Racer]

Noose:

This new part does need to sit on top of the wire or brass nose piece or center section just as with the Slick 7 steel guide piece that many of us have used for the same purpose, does it not? I understand it can also be used to reinforce the JK brass kit as Mike indicated?

[Noose]

Ray,

There were a couple of pieces and this discussion is centered around one that is coined and can be used directly between the main rails. It meets the specs thus it is legal. It surely will make it easier for the beginning scratchbuilder.

[Jacob Shiplet]

So a coined nosepiece and GT (integrated) is allowed to be used? So we can use a steel nosepiece/GT as long as it's coined and available to everyone, is that correct?

[Guillermo Suar]

I have never "worn out" an axle using oilite bushings. But then again, I use "drill blanks" for axles. Hint... Parma is the only one that sells true "drill blanks" for axles. So if you're using another brand... that's your problem in regards to worn axles.

In fact, most of my Can-Am cars have oilite bushings in them versus ball bearings. No problems with gears or axles.

As I have said many times before... most of these wear problems are caused by the oil some of you use.

One more time... 50W Mobil 1 Synthetic... that will cure most of your problems. Add in some Lucas Oil Treatment and that makes it even better.

Ron,

I did not say I had a problem. In fact, I'm actually still using the first set of oilites and the same axle since I've built my JK Spec chassis. Never had to replace the gear either.

You don't want to use them, ot's your choice. I still believe ball bearings are better for the rear axle and don't see a reason to ban them in the class. That's all.

[NJ Racer]

Thanks, Noose, for the clarification.

It's great that Mike's new part can be used between the rails as well. Simple and strong solution for the builder.

[Pappy]

how is the man in charge of tech going to say whats Mikes part or a Flexi part? if i take the plating off and i tell them thats how i cut it down,,,then who's to say? as long as it meets the requirements then theres no way for them to not allow it....who's gonna tell me what part i used?..or unless you are willing to say that you cut it off of a flexi chassis, we'll just keep it a secret

There you go, Justin. Just do it, no one will know the difference. Your problem is solved.

I'd be interested in knowing how many of you guys complaining about not being able to use parts from a Flexi actually used them when they were legal. Is it easier to cut up a Flexi than to just make a nose piece/guide tongue? Does the Flexi part work better than one you make? Is it cheaper for a guy just getting into the hobby to buy a Flexi and cut it up vs just buying Mike's piece? In the three years I teched cars in the Ohio Valley series I never once saw anyone make a chassis using a part of a Flexi chassis. Why don't you just cut up an old Warmack or JK Spec chassis that you don't use anymore instead?

Mike made a piece that is strong and makes it easier for guys to scratchbuild a chassis, way easier than cutting up a Flexi. Isn't that what we are trying to do, make it easier for beginners to make a chassis and get started in our hobby? Isn't that why guys like Rick make jigs and wheelblanks to make chassis building easier and more accurate? Should we outlaw Rick's building jig because they didn't have anything like it in the '60s? But they did have steel nosepieces/guide holders in the '60s, Cobra made them. Aren't the Warmack, JK Spec, R-Geo, and Slick 7 kits available because they make it easier for a beginner to build a chassis?

What's amazing is you have a group of five gentlemen "donating" their time to come up with rules so we can all have fun. And then some want to spend their time trying to find technicalities and loopholes in the rules just to stir up sh!t.

[Rick]

Butch,

No matter how much you guys try to candy coat this thing, it's just wrong.

The only one using a loophole is CL.

The steel guide tongue, IMO, should have never been permitted in retro at all, but it was, almost universally as an overlay and/or on top of a piece of brass plate.

Butch, you stated Retro was going down the road of USRA and you certainly were correct...

[Pappy]

Butch, no matter how much you guys try to candy coat this thing, it's just wrong.

You may think this is wrong, Rick, but deep down you know I'm right.

Murphy's Law "no good deed shall go unpunished".

Would it make all you guys happy if the whole board quit?

[Rick]

You may think this is wrong Rick, but deep down you know I'm right. Murphy's Law "no good deed shall go unpunished"

Would it make all you guys happy if the whole board quit?

Right about what? splain Lucy............lost me on that one?

[Pappy]

Mike made a piece that is strong and makes it easier for guys to scratch build a chassis, way easier than cutting up a flexi. Isn't that what we are trying to do is make it easier for beginners to make a chassis and get started in our hobby? Isn't that why guys like Rick make jigs and wheelblanks to make chassis building easier and more accurate. Should we outlaw Rick's building jig because they didn't have anything like it in the 60's. But they did have steel nose pieces/guide holders in the 60's, Cobra made them. Aren't the Warmack, JK Spec, RGEO and Slick 7 kits available because they make it easier for a beginner to build a chassis.

What's amazing is you have a group of 5 gentlemen "donating" their time to come up with rules so we can all have fun. And then some want to spend their time trying to find technicalities and loopholes in the rules just to stir up sh!t.

Right about what? splain Lucy............lost me on that one?

Just re-read what I wrote, it pretty much explains it. Since the steel nose piece/guide tongue is legal why don't you get on the band wagon and start producing them. We can always use more parts to make scratch building easier.

[Mr. Frank]

Me too, I'm lost I guess???

Mr. Frank

[DaveM]

Ok I'll bite...................Some explain to me why using the stamped steel car's guide tongue is any different than buying a steel tongue from approved vendor?? If i scratch build a copy of one that's legal isn't it??

[Larry Mattingly]

There you go Justin, just do it, no one will know the difference. Your problem is solved.

I'd be interested in knowing how many of you guys complaining about not being able to use parts from a flexi actually used them when they were legal. Is it easier to cut up a flexi than to just make a nose piece/guide tongue? Does the flexi part work better than one you make? Is it cheaper for a guy just getting into the hobby to buy a flexi and cut it up vs. just buying Mikes piece? In the three years I teched cars in the Ohio Valley series I never once saw anyone make a chassis using a part of a flexi chassis. Why don't you just cut up an old Warmack or JK Spec chassis that you don't use anymore instead.

Mike made a piece that is strong and makes it easier for guys to scratch build a chassis, way easier than cutting up a flexi. Isn't that what we are trying to do is make it easier for beginners to make a chassis and get started in our hobby? Isn't that why guys like Rick make jigs and wheelblanks to make chassis building easier and more accurate. Should we outlaw Rick's building jig because they didn't have anything like it in the 60's. But they did have steel nose pieces/guide holders in the 60's, Cobra made them. Aren't the Warmack, JK Spec, RGEO and Slick 7 kits available because they make it easier for a beginner to build a chassis.

What's amazing is you have a group of 5 gentlemen "donating" their time to come up with rules so we can all have fun. And then some want to spend their time trying to find technicalities and loopholes in the rules just to stir up sh!t.

Butch

If a rule is passed/changed, I think everyone would be happier if said rules were just based on dimensions. IE: Coined steel guide tongues are legal. providing they meet the following dimensions etc... Does it REALLY matter where they came from?

A possible reason that you never saw anyone using chassis with flexi pieces is that the IRRA announced a full year in advance that they would be illegal. Most didn't want to bother, when they knew the chassis wouldn't pass tech down the road.

'Easy' really isn't the issue. If Josh, Justin or anyone else want to spend their time cutting up a flexi-chassis, why shouldn't they be granted that opportunity, provided the part meets all the specified DIMENSIONS set forth in the rule book?

You of all people, should realize that 'money and cost' to many racers outweigh the 'easy' factor. If you have a box full of old, bent-up flexi chassis, and WANT to spend the time, why spend another $5.00 for a tongue?

LM

[tonyp]

Who cares anymore.

[Larry Mattingly]

Who cares anymore.

Apparently the folks making posts on the subject...

LM

[Pappy]

Who cares anymore.

Tony, let's just hope the five board members don't cop that attitude for the sake of Retro.

Larry, I really don't know what the problem is. Just change the rules in Penn/Ohio to make the flexi parts legal. Isn't that what you guys do? The board said no to .790 tires because it would have required a lot guys to purchase or make new chassis which cost a lot of money. So you change the rules to allow .790 tires and lower the clearance. So you broke two rules, third times a charm.