1441 replies to this topic

[James Grandi]

I would hazard a guess that it had far too much forward weight distribution. With that much nose weight I would figure the tires would have trouble hooking up, and the weight shift from acceleration/braking would be interesting!

[Gator Bob]

I am building my first F1 and looking for a rule clarification please.
 
The statement in red seems to conflict with the one in green. 
 
2c. All chassis parts, to include the guide flag,
must be covered by the unmodified body with
the following exceptions: the guide may be
visible on the sides of the body when the guide
is turned and scale-appearing suspension or
other cosmetic devices are allowed. The chassis
can be visible through or on the sides of the rear
sections of the body only if the full-size car was
open in that area. For example, flat areas
between the exhaust pipes may be left clear (but
not removed), and chassis parts may be visible
on the sides of bodies where the exhaust pipes
gather in the center over the gear area. Chassis
visible from the top via a legal opening, such as
the front or rear axle area, are permissable in
this class, providing no part, other than the axles
and/or axle tubes, exceeds the maximum 1.625"
chassis width.
 
Also, are there some examples of "scale-appearing suspension or other cosmetic devices"?
 
Example - Are upper and/or lower control arms (A arm or Wishbone) considered a scale-appearing suspension component? 

[DOCinCanton]

Bob,

Let me save you a lot of time. Do not have ANY chassis parts or components showing outside the body.

[Samiam]

Thin wire to look like control arms. I will sometimes use body pins. They are shiny.

[Noose]

Also, are there some examples of "scale-appearing suspension or

other cosmetic devices"?
 
Example - Are upper and/or lower control arms (A arm or Wishbone) considered a scale-appearing suspension component? \
 
There are no examples since no one has done it. If you chose to to have lower and upper scale appearing suspension they cannot be part of the frame as it would exceed the max allowed width.

[Gator Bob]

Would thick stickers/painted plastic attached to the body or metallic A-arms mounted to the axle tubes or spacers be allowed? 

[MSwiss]

Bob,

I think the easy rule of thumb would be are you adding anything that could affect the handling characteristics of the chassis other, of course, the higher center of gravity. LOL.

That said, my personal opinion is adding anything that can easily fall/get knocked off, during normal racing, is inconsiderate to the other racers.

IOW, if your left lower A-arm falls off and gets lodged in the slot and someone hits it and launches and wads up their car.

[Gator Bob]

Inconsiderate?  ... That already happens when my whole car 'falls off' in the A Main and wads up half the field.    

 

Thinking about it... It is even more considerate to stay away unless I have a real driver lined up.

 

I get the feeling you are trying to discourage my attempts to win concours.   

 

So back to the original rule question...  I'm trying to understand .

[MantaRay]

Tilting???

[DOCinCanton]

Bob, I bought the concourse plaque with you in mind, however, to be eligible for the concourse plaque, you must pass tech.

[Noose]

Bob, no one in the 7 years of retro has added faux suspension and entered any race I have been in. Many a concours has been won without it.  The point is whatever you choose to add within the rules should be firmly attached so it doesn't come off in any main.

[MSwiss]

So back to the original rule question...  I'm trying to understand .

I know you enjoy turning Retro rules into splitting the atom, but I think your question was answered twice.

If you need more than that, I suggest you check with the guy who will be teching the car.

He's the one who ultimately will be interprets the rules.

[John Streisguth]

I hate when some interrupts the rules....let them finish what they have to say!

 

[MSwiss]

I hate when some interrupts the rules....let them finish what they have to say!
 

And I hate when my cell phone tells me what I want to say. Lol

[Danny Zona]

I know you enjoy turning Retro rules into splitting the atom, but I think your question was answered twice.
If you need more than that, I suggest you check with the guy who will be teching the car.
He's the one who ultimately will be interprets the rules.

Like you say Swiss, "Its Bob being Bob". Lol

We might not like it, but we better learn to love it. Lol

[Gator Bob]

Machine tilted .. I'll put another quarter in.. LOL

 

 

Doc for 'your 500 race' it's IRRA^TM rules correct?.

 

 Would thick stickers/painted plastic attached to the body or metallic A-arms mounted to the axle tubes or spacers be allowed? 

[MSwiss]

Like you say Swiss, "Its Bob being Bob". Lol
We might not like it, but we better learn to love it. Lol

If my Uncle Ted was still alive, this would be the time he interjected
" Bob, you're Bob Hope's brother, No Hope". Lol

[DOCinCanton]

Bob, based on post 1203, 1205, 1207, 1210, 1211, along with the "dangerous" rule, stickers/painted plastic, etc. are not allowed. Detail the body as much as possible, as well as, the driver. If there are molded in velocity stacks or exhaust pipes, do some detailing here.You will have an excellent chance to win concourse.

 

Bob, look at the IRRA approved body list. Look at the detail of the Cooper Maserati, totally awesome. Also, check out the Ferrari and the BRM. All are concourse candidates.

[John Streisguth]

It seems from this discussion that maybe this rule needs to be looked at and changed.  I think it's safe to say anything added on that would not be robust enough to influence handling is probably not robust enough to stay put during crashes. 

 

Can you imagine a piece of small diameter piano wire coming adrift and scraping the track for a couple of laps?  If I was the track owner, I would be beside myself.

[Gator Bob]

I know you enjoy turning Retro rules into splitting the atom, but I think your question was answered twice.

If you need more than that, I suggest you check with the guy who will be teching the car.

He's the one who ultimately will be interprets the rules.

Atoms, hairs, cans, seals or rails ... it's all the same ...LOL

I don't write them only read them.

 

In business I've learned that to have an International rule set and/or operational guidelines that are left up to individual tech director in any region or country is not in the best interest of the organization.  Training of Region Directors and Technical Inspectors to conform with a clear and concise Rule Book would be a sound policy that the BOD and it's managers should be held accountable to implimenting. Consistency of operational control and delivering value in its offering begins at the top of an organization.  

 

And ... 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease' ... LOL

 

 

 

[Gator Bob]

Gottcha Doc, Thanks !

 

It seems from this discussion that maybe this rule needs to be looked at and changed. 

We have a Winner!

 

Rules that make no sense will be considered nonsense.

[DOCinCanton]

Bob, I take your two comments above personally insulting. Concerning tech inspectors: Marty, Tony and Grant have been teching cars in GRRR for 4 years in a very consistant manner. We have not had any issues, with the rules or their application. Then you come along. Maybe it would be best for you to stay home on May 24.

[tonyp]

Anytime you want to sit down and write a better set That covers all the nonsense points you bring up feel free to do it.  Ill be glad to proof them If I live long enough for you to finish them covering every possible point that could ever be possibly brought up. 

[Noose]

Bob, I go through at last 80 audit a year in my real job and I see auditors "interpret" international standards differently all the time. 

 

Please give me us break.

[stemmy]

When was the last time gator entered a race.