1441 replies to this topic

[Bryan Warmack]

What Is the purpose of the original extensions any way?

 

Bill,

 

As far as I'm concerned the extensions or "bumpers" definitely help protect against broken guides and also do a great job of helping to push deslotted cars out of the way. 

 

Several years ago I had the opportunity to run one of Rick's unique Can-Am cars in a monthly BPR King track race that also featured front bumpers in front of the guide and incorporated pin tubes so the car had six body mounts. The car ran awesome (I won!) but other than the super handling, another the thing that stood out was the way the car literally "plowed" through several wreaks without an off and hardly skipping a beat!

 

I've been building some sort of front protection bumpers on all my Can-Am cars (see Mike's pic) ever since and after seeing his F1, I may try something similar... 

[MSwiss]

Despite any needlessly discourteous remarks toward me, I already had a fix planned for my next F1 chassis build, so before this degenerates into a pointless social media micturition match, and since it is an easy refit to the chassis in question, I decided to post it up here for your perusal.
 
So, if I place a wire running between the two front tines as pictured below, would that help allay any concerns? Let me know if its okay, and Ill put it on tomorrow. (Busy tonight well, not really, just doing something else for fun)
 
Rick / CMF3
 
A218-e3-x04ae.jpg

  

Another quick break from having fun
 
Mike,
 
No kidding. Regardless, until such time that there are specific rules written that apply to everyone regarding min-max dimensional components of chassis structures that would be applicable to the front tines on my F1 chassis and cars, I will not be undertaking any such modifications as youve suggested. It would be easier just to design and build another chassis that would fit those rules as written when the time occurs...
 
Greg,
 
I try respectfully, if I had to design and build my chassis/cars for every possible hypothetical situation of debatable probability (and especially in this case after more than six years and about a dozen F1 chassis with no problems of any kind, and foregoing any comments about the relative safety of other classes of slot cars), I just wouldnt bother
 
As for the proposal of a rule stating no chassis component forward of the guide post, that would knock out every chassis/car I have.

 
Well, you went from being reasonable, to not, in an hour and 22 minutes.

Congratulations.

[Taylor Davis]

Rick does have a right to be a little upset about his entire fleet of cars being obsoleted by a possible rule change. I definitely wouldn't be to thrilled.

[MSwiss]

that would be applicable to the front tines on my F1 chassis

 

tine
[tahyn]
noun
a sharp, projecting point or prong, as of a fork.

[Half Fast]

OK, so I understand the reasons for the design. Bryan's approach is much safer but probably wouldnt work on an F1 car.

 

However good the design is, the safety of the marshals and spectator must take precedence and very valid concerns have arisen.

 

Who said the task of the BoD was easy. 

 

Cheers,

[Samiam]

Rick does have a a right to be a little upset about his entire fleet of cars being obsoleted by a possible rule change. I definitely wouldn't be to thrilled.

 

Nothing a cut-off wheel can't fix in 30 sec.

[MSwiss]

Rick does have a a right to be a little upset about his entire fleet of cars being obsoleted by a possible rule change. I definitely wouldn't be to thrilled.

 

While other racers suggested it, I missed where any member of the IRRA^® BoD suggested any sort of rule change that would obsolete his fleet.

I took the time to print out a pic of his proposed chassis fix, and show him the way that it would be least dangerous to the marshal.

I personally am fine with wire in the front. I would sooner get hit by a car with the proposed fix, or Warmack's car, than the front of a guide.

A few months back, I got hit by a car that had the old style Red Fox guide on it.

It hit my hand hard enough to break one of the braid pockets, draw quite a bit of blood, and delay the race, for me to take care of the wound sufficient enough that I wouldn't bleed on the track and the other cars I was going to marshal.

IMO, if I got hit with an .062" loop, or loops, it would have still hurt, but it wouldn't have drawn blood.

[Cheater]

Rick does have a right to be a little upset about his entire fleet of cars being obsoleted by a possible rule change. I definitely wouldn't be to thrilled.

Anything is possible, but the odds of Rick's fleet being obsoleted by a rules change are so infinitesimally small that it isn't worth worrying about IMO.

[Eddie Fleming]

I think I was the first in this discussion to mention no chassis parts forward of some designated point. I don't like complicated rules. They are hard if not impossible to enforce. Chassis-wise I tend to go back to the very old school rule of you can run what you want as long as it fits in the set dimensions for the class. It is much easier to deal with a rule of you can't use this space than it is to try and define what you can do in a space.
 
I see no chance of a rule change in any class that would eliminate forward-extending chassis parts, but I think everyone should look at chassis designs with safety in mind. I think Rick's modification with the bar across the front is a good one. The less sharp edges on a chassis the better.

[DOCinCanton]

FWIW: I see no safety issue with Rick's Can-Am or Stock car chassis which are pictured in the race report from the last Pinellas Park race.

 

Also, my rule suggestions above are meant to be a starting point for reasonable rule changes concerning the safety issue that has been pointed out here.

[The Number of]

So, Doc, you support reasonable chassis control? When pointy chassis are outlawed only outlaws will have pointy chassis!

[Half Fast]

Doc likes pointy chassis, just not when they impale his hand!
 
Cheers,

[Arne Saknussem]

Easy fix for the safety-conscious.
 
Cut-Resistant Gloves
 

[DOCinCanton]

So, the challenge is to craft rules that would allow Rick's Can-Am and Stock Car chassis but not allow the type of construction shown in his F1 chassis. Easier said than done.

[Racer36]

Not that difficult I don't think. Put in place a rule that specifies that a leading edge must be of a certain thickness and/or be of a minimum radius. Rick can install the "bumper" rod he showed on the F1 and round off the "spears". For full bodied versions the minimum radius rule would work to prevent points on leading edges. 

Requires a bit of thought to not make illegal some chassis, but there is enough collective brain power here to pull it off.

[Samiam]

New rule...
 
Owner of car must be willing to place a bare hand in front of his car as it speeds from a standing start 8 feet away.
 
That should take care of forward facing spikes.

[Greg VanPeenen]

We need no new rules. We already have way too many rules!!!

 

What is needed is a little common sense. Which Rick has already demonstrated with his fix for one man's problem with his F1 chassis. I'am sure if that one person had addressed his issues with Ricks F1 chassis the results would have been the same. Changing rules because of one man has an issue with something another man is doing with out ever talking to the other guy to address his issues is just BS. What is needed is communication, not rule changes. Try it you might see that it works just like it did in this case. 

 

What the BoD should be spending all of it time on instead is a resolution of the only real problem that is need of being addressed. That being a replacement for these worthless repurposed toothbrush motors that we are using to power our Retro cars. That is the nagging problem that is begging to be resolved.   

[IRRA Retro Racing]

The IRRA^® BoD has discussed this privately and the decision voted on and passed is to add an additional bullet point to the IRRA^® General Rules in the Tech Inspection section. Here is what will be added:
 
· The Race Director and/or the Tech Director, at their sole discretion, may disallow any chassis deemed potentially to be unsafe to the marshals and spectators.
 
(Posted for the IRRA® BoD by Greg Wells)

[Shiggy]

Your chance of getting injured by a slot car, even a G7 open wing car going over 100 MPH, are less then getting hit by lightning...

 
I have had fingers cut open by flexi cars while marshaling twice in the past six months.

I have never been hit by lightning.

[Arne Saknussem]

We need no new rules. We already have way too many rules!!!

 

More correctly, slot racing is afflicted with too many rules of dubious value.

[MSwiss]

GVP,

 

Your theory doesn't hold water.

The most successful race series in the US is Retro East, with obviously our rules, and a tough, but fair, tech director.

[Grant G.]

I teched Rick's F1 that is in question and shown in the photos. His designs are always intriguing. 

 

After pushing my thumb into the front "tangs," "forks," whatever you want to call them I found them to be slightly duller than a ball point pen. In hindsight they could probably be a little safer. 

 

I have chassis in all classes with pans and rear motor brackets with corner radii less than 1/64" of an inch that feel roughly the same to me. 

 

In the last six races I am pretty sure I have seen Doc take a shot to the family jewels no less than two times while turn marshaling as an errant car flew off the track during a wreck.These cars don't always take the path or direction you think they will.  

 

I can probably count on one hand the number of flesh wounds I have witnessed racing Retro in nearly 10 years and none of them requiring a trip to the ER,

 

Maybe the .010" thick bodies are part of the reason why we don't see more injuries? 

[DOCinCanton]

Several good points in Grant's post. The fact that you could get hit by the back of the car, I round the front and rear corners of the side pans and the rear construction of the chassis.

[Tex]

I round off corners, too... maybe not enough but it's better than getting hit with a sharp corner or point.

 

And I do not put my hand down in front of a speeding slot car(rider). I may try to grab it, but I'm not gonna put my hand down like some fleshy brick wall.

[John Streisguth]

Ever have your hand hit by another car while marshaling one?