537 replies to this topic

[MSwiss]

Mr. Gr 27 of his time.

Randall must of wrote for SARN or sold sort of slot part because I remember him listing
his mailing address as C/O The Danish (or Denmark) Bookstore. LOL

[Mopar Rob]

God damn hippie freak. Where's my shot gun? Do you got your captain America chopper parked outside with the dope in the gas tank?

I thought the dope was in the battery of the dirt bike and the money from the dope sale was in the gas tank of the Captin America bike?

[Rick]

I thought the dope was in the battery of the dirt bike and the money from the dope sale was in the gas tank of the Captin America bike?

10-4...........

[Duffy]

What's the big deal? We've been stuffin' our money down the filler pipe for years, every man Jack of us, and most of us don't even get high. Or look like Dennis Hopper.
Or, for that matter, get blown away by rednecks. Unless we're still mightily impressed by the Charlie Daniels Band or something, but that's different.

~300-odd responses into this thread, I'd figure slot racing faded from shifts in interest.
Why ask why?
Why did Disco fade? Or Crock Pots? Smoking? (It has, y'know, statistically.) The Tango/Hula Hoop/Tapeworm Weight Loss/ECT?
Tastes change.
Some continue to dig it, whatever "it" it may be.
With Slots, we're still digging it. Enjoy that. it'll never be like it was, and we're weeping over our personal diminishment a lot less than the Iceboat Racers are. I'm kinda feelin' lucky about that; how 'bout you?

Duffy

[boxerdog]

I know in my case, around 1964-65, there were all kinds of motorized things to attract my meager funds. Motorcycles, karts, cars, etc. And "social activities" as well, so we all moved on, temporarily. Why the hobby never back-filled is a mystery to me, but perhaps, as others have said, because that era was also a time of great unrest in the US after the Kennedy assassination, the draft and civil rights protests. There were more important things going on, and we just were not kids having a good time any more.

The other question I have is, why do a lot of us retain the interest in slots after all of these years and transformations? We could have just moved on for good and not looked back. It might be as simple as recapturing adolescence, but maybe not??
dc

[Jim Webb]

Ice Boat Racers? What/who is that?

[Rickard Five]

Randall must of wrote for SARN or sold sort of slot part because I remember him listing
his mailing address as C/O The Danish (or Denmark) Bookstore. LOL

Mike it was Paris Book Store, another Dallas Racer got me a Job there @ 16-17, I only worked with Randall a few weeks before he passed, but working in an adult Literature store in the3 RED LIGHT district of Dallas,with guys that I raced toy cars with was quite the educational opportunity !

[Gus Kelley]

Hey All! Shades of Spider-Man in the SF Bay area. '60s, Grundy Gazzette. Gus in Sacto

[MSwiss]

Yes, Paris Book Store.

I knew it had some reference to Europe. LOL.

Ironically, one of Texas's top racers was named Pat Paris.

[Rickard Five]

Ironically, one of Texas's top racers was named Pat Paris.

Now there's a name I haven't heard in a very long time...

I raced at his track (Starlight), and when I got old enough to have enough money to build high horsepower drag cars Pat sold me some by-then obsolete Pony Can motors, flat back cobalts, and a Trinity Infinity, all of which ran like scalded apes in Pro Stock back when it was still a pro class!

Along that same thought do you know the name Bobby Morton? When I was ~16ish, I had got hold of a 27 wing car, and I was gonna race with the big boys. So during qualifying I kept popping off in the dead man, and this old guy (Leo Winters) grabs my car and throws it at me, mumbling a something about learning to drive a box stock before racing with them. So any how before I could pistol-whip that old geezer with a Parma 1/2 ohm controller, Bobby puts his arm around me and says, "Don't worry about it, I'll help ya out", and he glued for me and even fixed my car a few times, even though he was in that race! Old Leo was so burned when he came in LAST!

I still have and am running some PK arms Bobby gave me for like $2 each because they were "dogs". Got one right now in a Falcon 6 setup that ran .746 @ 84 MPH last weekend. That is the kind of guy we need back in this sport.

[Ron Hershman]

Yep remember Bob Morton 1987 USRA Gr 7 Nats Champion.

Last rumor I heard.... he was on the inside looking out

You know anything of him of late?

[JohnnySlotcar]

Snorting sand chasing little girls in Tolouse France much to the chagrin of J.P. at the Worlds in 87!!!!

[Rickard Five]

Yep remember Bob Morton 1987 USRA Gr 7 Nats Champion.

Last rumor I heard.... he was on the inside looking out

You know anything of him of late?

 

Nope he's on the outside looking in.   Last report I had he showed up at the last Nats for a day, down at that other slot car track in Dallas. I'd died a little bit that I couldn't be there to say hi!

[tlbrace]

Thought question. While I believe a lot of things contributed to the decline of the popularity of slot car racing: fads come and go (hula hoops, frisbees, cabbage patch dolls, pet rocks, etc.); the nicest looking slot cars (hard bodied Monogram, Cox, Revell, etc.) often were the least competitive if you wanted to race at a commercial track; casual and moderately casual hobbiests could not keep up with the go-fast technology...the guys who took it seriously were relatively few in number; Oscar and Auto World, for all the good things he did, created a cheaper way to get anything you wanted than buying at the local slot shop; the square footage needed to put up a couple of big 8 laners simply could not be sustained by track time alone, and the fickleness of hobbiests combined with the ability to buy cheaper mailorder cut the primary revenue stream...

...here's another twist to think about. You know how sometimes you think about if one small detail had been changed, how much things might have turned out differently? Kind of a variation of the butterfly effect?

What if commercial tracks had not gone to an 8 lane standard, but maybe a 5 or 6 lane standard? The footprint needed, overall, to sustain 5 or 6 lane tracks would have been MUCH smaller than that for 8 lane. And let's face it, an 8 lane track is about as far from realistic for scale afficionados as you can get. You might be 'racing' in a heat against a guy literally three or more feet away from you, lane 1 to lane 8.

What if nominally better realism, and a substantially smaller footprint lowering the overall costs of operation had been the way to go? Would that have at least extended the 'boom' a bit. Would a 5 or 6 lane setup really have changed how a race night ran?

Just a different twist, how something as seemingly inconsequential as changing the number of lanes might have altered, but not saved, the industry.

Thoughts?

[Rickard Five]

....... the square footage needed to put up a couple of big 8 laners simply could not be sustained by track time alone, and the fickleness of hobbiests combined with the ability to buy cheaper mailorder cut the primary revenue stream...

...here's another twist to think about. You know how sometimes you think about if one small detail had been changed, how much things might have turned out differently? Kind of a variation of the butterfly effect?

What if commercial tracks had not gone to an 8 lane standard, but maybe a 5 or 6 lane standard? The footprint needed, overall, to sustain 5 or 6 lane tracks would have been MUCH smaller than that for 8 lane. And let's face it, an 8 lane track is about as far from realistic for scale afficionados as you can get. You might be 'racing' in a heat against a guy literally three or more feet away from you, lane 1 to lane 8.

What if nominally better realism, and a substantially smaller footprint lowering the overall costs of operation had been the way to go? Would that have at least extended the 'boom' a bit. Would a 5 or 6 lane setup really have changed how a race night ran?

Just a different twist, how something as seemingly inconsequential as changing the number of lanes might have altered, but not saved, the industry.

Thoughts?

2 lanes 5 or even 10 it wouldn't matter much,The big issue is, and I've been struggleing with it for years
1. )The "King" 48 ft x 21 ft, 155 ft is Roughly 1,000 Sq ft of floor space. Now let's do the Math Childrens, on a good Fri night you'll be lucky to get 8-12 Racers. or let's just assume BEST CASE 16 Racers and if Each one Spends Outrageous Numbers $125 or about $2000 Retail, or $800 cream + $160 race Fees so a total of $0.96 / sq ft per week
2. ) Conservatively Based on an average night @ our track Drag Racing 20 People spending $50 on parts or about $1000 Retail, or $400 cream plus 96 entries and 40 buybacks about $408 in race fees the Drag Strip takes 80 sq feet so about $15.10 / sq ft. Per week
I hope this Economics lesson will once and for all show the LOW Economic Viability of any kind of Road Track, the only way for any slot car track to survive is though the good will and Monthly infusions of Cash from the track owner!

[tlbrace]

2 lanes 5 or even 10 it wouldn't matter much,The big issue is, and I've been struggleing with it for years
1. )The "King" 48 ft x 21 ft, 155 ft is Roughly 1,000 Sq ft of floor space. Now let's do the Math Childrens, on a good Fri night you'll be lucky to get 8-12 Racers. or let's just assume BEST CASE 16 Racers and if Each one Spends Outrageous Numbers $125 or about $2000 Retail, or $800 cream + $160 race Fees so a total of $0.96 / sq ft per week
2. ) Conservatively Based on an average night @ our track Drag Racing 20 People spending $50 on parts or about $1000 Retail, or $400 cream plus 96 entries and 40 buybacks about $408 in race fees the Drag Strip takes 80 sq feet so about $15.10 / sq ft. Per week
I hope this Economics lesson will once and for all show the LOW Economic Viability of any kind of Road Track, the only way for any slot car track to survive is though the good will and Monthly infusions of Cash from the track owner!

I don't think the economics lesson needs to be restated, it's well known and has long been seen as a primary contributor. Perhaps the primary contributor. I'm just suggesting as a thought question what if the hobby had been 'smaller' in the form of tracks taking up about 60% of the space. What additional options for placement of shops? Use of extra space for other retail? Would the type of racing had been different, ie less high speed and more realistic (and attainable/affordable for novices) speeds? Who knows. Sometimes it's just moving one overlooked detail that makes all the difference.

[Don Wedding]

Speaking of Smaller scale , what about the HO racing Boom that happened around the late 60's . Could this have been the last nail in the coffin for large scale racing .

!. Home HO racing exploded with new inovations on how to hop up your Factory car. Speed parts were available by mail order (Autoworld ) and at your local Hobby shop,

2. Wild exotic factory cars were being introduced, AFX, Tycopro, Riggen, and Dynabute.

3. Cost!!! You could have a fleet of cars and race all night on a huge realistic, detailed ( buildings, foilage, etc.) layout in your basement for free.

4.You could have all your friends over from the neighborhood ( no transportation needed).

I arrived at the End of the large scale racing boom and was more involved in HO racing because of age. I was 10 years old in 1968 and was just cutting my teeth when I discovered Commercial Slot racing. I still love and Collect the large scale cars and race them at our local track just for the great memories. I enjoyed building kits and seeing how they performed . I was also a model builder and the Cox, Monogram and Revell kits were a good fit.

[Vay Jonynas]

the nicest looking slot cars (hard bodied Monogram, Cox, Revell, etc.) often were the least competitive if you wanted to race at a commercial track; casual and moderately casual hobbiests could not keep up with the go-fast technology...

 

That I think was the key factor that resulted in a dearth of ten year olds taking up slot car racing as the older fellows "grew up" and moved on to other interests. In 1964 a box stock Revell or Mongram kit could be run competitively against the other kids because that's what they were running too! But technology had advanced so quickly by 1968 that nothing a ten year old was likely to buy/build was going to be competitive with what the more sophisticated, i.e., older racers were running. Moreover, the less the slot cars on the track resembled scale models, the less likely young model builders were going to be attracted to building and racing slot cars.

[Guy Spaulding]

I hated the anglewinder when it first came out because it was so hard for a young teen, such as myself, to build... And you were doomed without one.
 
There was also the beginning of the motor wars. People showed up with $100 motors and wiped the rest of us off the face of the planet. And, if the high price tag wasnt enough, you had to personally know a builder, too.
 
The '80s were OK because you could put together over-the-counter parts to build a $125 cobalt G27 motor, and compete at the regional level.

[Rick]

The fad ran its course, just like the Hula Hoop...

[Les Boyd]

I haven't read all of the posts but during that time the home tracks where getting better and there where several club tracks that started popping up.

Where I lived in Mich. there where two club tracks in the basment of a couple of houses and with them so close there was no need to go to the expensive track down town. And we all ran the same type cars that ran about the same speed and handled the same. That was alot more fun than going to the big track and getting your doors blown off. not only that the people that ran the tracks would treat the kids that had alot less money to spend very badly. If you didn't buy the best and spend alot of money there each week they would let you know that you where not welcome.

I will say I have seen that even today at some tracks, It feels weird when the people at the track treat you like you have coodies, when you are not one of the guys that is there every time the doors are open and spending a s... load of money.

With all that said, what seems to keep people active is change, that is don't run the same stuff year after year. Run differant class cars from year to year.

Make a big hoopla out what is going to be run and don't beat it into the ground by running the series for 30 months before the finals. And be awair of the seasons, Warm weather is always hard on attendance. Schedule the finals before everyone is out mowing their yard , going to the lake, gun club, or ball games on the weekends. You know outdoor activities. 

[Samiam]

<p>To help with an accurate answer to the OP's question I pulled out a copy of Model Car &amp; Science, June,1968. In it I found a build article on the &quot;Flying Door Hinge&quot;. Touted as the next hot thing out of Cali. The main components were piano wire, .032&quot; or .025&quot; 1/4&quot;brass plate, assorted tubing, and a motor bracket. No drop arm with an Iso-Fulcrum front axe ala La Cucaracha. Kind of an in-between stage of a Jail Door and what would be considered a Retro car.The build looks simple to me but to a noob in '68 it must have looked like rocket science not model car science.<br />
<br />
There was the RTR chassis from Champion of Chamblee for $5.95 but it was still all \-brass rod with a .063&quot; solid brass drop arm. And no &quot;bat pans&quot;. And you could order it directly from one of their &quot;Factory Supplied Warehouses&quot;.<br />
<br />
So between FSWs and mail order catalogs like &quot;Auto World&quot; and another I found called &quot;Discount Hobby Distributor&quot;,slotters could either build from scratch or order an already-obsolete chassis direct. It's easy to see how only the diehards marched on and can still be found racing at many Retro races today.<br />
<br />
Cheap stamped chassis like Parma's Flexi-Kar made it possible for anyone to buy or build a car that handled well and helped a small comeback for slots. But astronomical rents and video has taken its toll.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>So do your part to keep slots alive... &quot;Support your local raceway&quot; or there won't be any.</p>
<p>And support those who support the sport.<br />
<br />
Slot on...</p>

[Tim Neja]

I hated the anglewinder when it first came out because it was so hard for a young teen, such as myself, to build... And you were doomed without one.
 
There was also the beginning of the motor wars. People showed up with $100 motors and wiped the rest of us off the face of the planet. And, if the high price tag wasnt enough, you had to personally know a builder, too.
 
The '80s were OK because you could put together over-the-counter parts to build a $125 cobalt G27 motor, and compete at the regional level.

 

The answer is "runaway technology" at ANY expense to go faster on a simple slot car track!! They didn't keep it simple, but allowed a few to think it was real racing - and allowed the "spend any amount" to win ruined what could have been a long-lived profitable hobby!!

 

The savior today - Retro rules that keep runaway technology at bay and hold down the cost of racing toy cars!! That will win every time.

[Tom Eatherly]

Hmmm. As most racers at BPR know, I'm only a part time racer and not a builder; but, I will say this. I think Tim N. pretty much nailed it. The way we and other regions follow Retro inline racing could, and I hope does, keep this wonderful little hobby of ours alive. I'm not as good as I'd like to be, but, damn, I do have fun! Faster isn't always better, just the way we run the inlines, is well, awesome!

Just my thoughts guys. As Tim would say: "Lets race!"

[Bill from NH]

I didn't start commercial slot racing until 1967. I guess the '67-68 fade, if there was any, wasn't around here and just passed me by.