71 replies to this topic

[GTPJoe]

Rick,

Oh yeah, 5/8" fronts like PdL's Group 20/7 car. It seems like all the later "pro" cars went with 5/8"s.

Would it be possible for you to post a picture of your center section jig with some measurements??
While my Rick B jig is awesome for D3 stuff, I need to build something else for the center section layout and soldering.
And Bill (from NH) has given me a real Parma drop arm which I'm saving for the No Glue car build.

Is there a certain angle used for the motor box area?? I've got a number of vintage Muras now and wonder how to make sure they fit.

Thanks again.

[dc-65x]

Joe,

I'm going to be making a new jig soon and I'll have a drawing I can send you then.

I set the motor angle the way Lee Gilbert did in his Car Model magazine "how-to" articles. I get the motor and gears I'll be using and set them up in the jig at the shallow angle that will still allow the gears to mesh and the magnet to not contact the axle.

I did a complete construction article with a zillion pictures that's now hosed with the current forum. It was my first post with a digital camera and I didn't resize the pictures properly. I will get that post fixed and reposted. In the mean time here is part of that old post that deals with motor angle. The chassis is a three-bearing so that's why I talk about cutting the center out of the rear axle tube. For a conventional two-bearing chassis it would remain just as it is in the pictures:

Here's the motor, axle tube, gear, and jig wheels, all centered up in the jig:



The axle motor is temporarily soldered to the axle tube with a wire brace. The axle tube is 1.250" long and is notched for motor clearance. The notch is .100" from the gear side and .250" from the end bell side. The depth of the notch is about half way through the tube. After all the rear axle bracing is installed I'll cut out the center of the axle tube to make room for the third axle bearing.



It's time to solder in the main rails...

My digital camera skills are still lacking but here goes. Here are the four main rails of the chassis. I leave ends LONG until I've "convinced" them to take the shape I want. Piano wire is cheap. Oh, one thing I noticed with this batch of hobby shop piano wire was that some of the pieces were not straight... kind of wavy. Now I spin each piece with my fingers to see if its straight and running true:



Here's the start of the center section in the jig. Next comes the two rear axle braces and cutting out of the center of the axle tube:



I'll also need to trim the main rails to length. For that I'll need the drop arm with all its plumber hinge tubes and bumpers installed. Here are the parts for the drop arm:



The wire sitting on the drop arm is .047" and is cut to the width of the drop arm. The two 3/32" diameter brass tubes are .475" long. The .062" dIameter wire bumpers are left long to be trimmed even with the pans latter.

These are the soldered up parts in the drop arm jig:



And the finished drop arm awaiting the Diamond front axles:

[GTPJoe]

Rick,

Great!

I see now one of the constraints is the 1.250" long axle tube. Get that centered, motor in place and gears meshing, soldered to axle tube temporarily. Then from the last jig pin that's holding the center section that bend to the tube is the angle for the motor. If it comes straight back it misses the tube but the bend goes right in front of the can and attaches to the tube. That's how you're able to build for different motors.

OK, it's coming together now. I won't drill my Garolite till I see your jig setup.

Thanks again!

[dc-65x]

Joe,

Usually I add the width of the two rear wheels, the spur gear, bearing flanges, and any spacers I want to use. Then I subtract that from the maximum allowable width (usually 3-1/8" or 3" for older cars). That gives me the length of the rear axle tube. It usually works out to about 1.200" for a 3-1/8" track width.

Have you downloaded the Lee Gilbert Pro Car How-To articles he did for Car Model magazine? The first anglewinder I built I had a lot of trouble with. After reading Lee's articles it all made sense.

[TSR]

This is the one Jan was selling to the public:

[dc-65x]

That's like the first one I show on page 2 of this post except my gear side axle brace was missing and I must have soldered the replacement on backwards :



So this style was a later version sold to the public? I've had several of these:

[GTPJoe]

Rick,

Is the Lee Gilbert article posted here on Slotblog??

[dc-65x]

Here's his motor building article. I guess it's the only one left from all the different forums.

Pro Motor Build

I'll check to see if I still have the scans and can post them again.

[JerseyJohn]

Here's his motor building article. I guess it's the only one left from all the different forums.

Pro Motor Build

I'll check to see if I still have the scans and can post them again.

Hello Rick, I race with TonyP and Noose. I just wanted to say your restoration work, and duplicate work is incredible. Thanks for sharing them with us...

[sportblazer350]

Great chassis building, i wish i had a tiny bit of the talents of you chassis builders on this blog.

So...here is a car i race using one of the $19.99 REH chassis. I simply use a $8 Cheetah-II motor, and this baby performs well! I do not know anything about chassis set ups, and this car handles great as i got it, no mods at all, except for soldering on a motor to rear axle tube brace to hold the motor in better. this makes for a very inexpensive and fun car to race.

[dc-65x]

Thanks John .

Glenn, these old anglewinder are a lot of fun aren't they . If you want to go from fun to a real rush, stick a modern GP20 C-can in it

Rick

[dc-65x]

I took Adam's 2008-888 to the track last weekend and here's how our version of a Big Dog angle winder worked out (the tires pictured on the car are old junkers as the "good" tires are in their air tight tube in the fridge)



I made one change at Adam's request. He liked the "Aero Style" heat sinks on my Tony P ISO Can Am Turbo motor so I swapped out these Parma clones:



for these modified Mura's:



At the track it handled absolutely bitch'n . I couldn't be happier with the handling. The Eddie 20 (a vintage Mura C-can setup with modern GP20 drag arm and magnets) had good power. For comparison Rodney ran his Parma "Sliding Plumber" chassis with a vintage Mura C-can and a vintage tagged GP7 arm. The Eddie 20 pulled the GP7 down the straights and was about .3 per lap faster.

Then I decided to compare the 2008-888 with its Koford 20 arm:



to my Starship with it's ProSlot 20 arm:



The ProSlot powered car just seemed a little better all around. It had a little more speed, slightly better brakes and even ran cooler. The armature air gap, brushes, brush springs and gearing are all the same. The Koford also drew more amps during the break in as I remember. I’m not sure how long this motor will last. I’ve absolutely hammered my ProSlot powered Eddie 20 and it just keeps going and going…………..

Maybe the Koford powered motor will pick up with some more track time..........or maybe it will go up in a ball of fire . I will ship this car to Adam and let him have fun wringing its neck and whatever happens will happen but its next arm will be a ProSlot .

So if you see this car running at BPR



and it goes POOF! we won't be surprised. We'll just rebuild that good old Mura 2-hole C-can with a ProSlot arm and it will be even faster .

ONWARD............

[Jairus]

I love those aero heat sinks....

[JohnnySlotcar]

Way too much timing. Either go down a tooth on the pinion, or risk meltdown.Next time go 38 degrees.

[dc-65x]

Hi John,

My current ProSlot is a 44 but it looks like they now only list 35, 38, 40 and 46 at PCH online. My current 44 runs great but I don't trust that 46 degree Koford. When I buy another one I'll take your advice and go down to a 38 (or maybe a 40 ) and stay away from the 46. We are running 8 - 42 gearing currently.

Thanks for your input,

Rick

[Bill from NH]

Rick, next time you have those arms out of a can, it won't hurt to check their actual timing as compared to the advertised. Some are closer than others.

[dc-65x]

Hi Bill,

I don't have a gizmo to check arm timing. What one do you recommend I buy. Sounds like a nice addition to my "Tools For Retirement"

[Bill from NH]

Rick, the two tools I own aren't being manufactured any more, but are essentially just a protractor with a pointer. The best one I've seen recently is the Proformance Racing tool. Here's a link to it on the PCH site. Comm Timing Tool

[MarcusPHagen]

The Mura two-hole C-can setup is plentiful on eBay. I bought this lot...

... which yielded these usable parts:

That "plentiful" may have been true 11 years ago, but it's pretty slim pickin's these days!

Did you set aside the "non-usable" cans & other parts, or just toss them? Most of what's on the Bay now doesn't look better than your discards in this pair of pictures, so it's getting discouraging trying to build up some of these cars. I may have to settle for "work-alikes" as Rocky Russo described his motor choices to keep his cars operating.

Marcus

[dc-65x]

Hi Marcus,

 

I sold off lots of my extra C-can motors and parts over the last couple of years for cheap.......unfortunately!    I even struggled to get $20 for "kits" like this with nice new parts:

 

 

I guess it's just a matter of timing. When I was selling my surplus the demand didn't seem to be there.

[olescratch]

Rick, you gotta learn how to hoard better lol!

[Bill from NH]

John, what Rick has that we don't know about would probably surprise us.