94 replies to this topic

[idare2bdul]

Not everybody is a painter. I enjoyed concours but can understand those that don't. I think having a separate award is good. How to do it with the debate between scale and art can be hard. Rewarding both has merit.

In F1 RC airplane racing you get a slight head start based on your plane's appearance. There are lots of ways to reward effort in this area.

[tonyp]

After all this hobby did start out as model car racing, not slot car racing. There should always be a place for the model car racers. With two concours events a guy could enter the one he wishes and possibly when the mains are set up all the scale guys could be put together so they run against each other. This might encourage more people who are into concours to go all the way with really trick cars, knowing they don't have to get passed by Ron every five laps...

Although there should be some provision for Noose's driver's head falling off at the start of each race and eliminating all that drag. LOL...

[Noose]

It didn't fall off... he tucked his head down.

[The Bugman]

And in our D3 racing, be it Can-Am, F1, Coupes, Retro of all kinds... we race for absolutely nothing. In fact we pay to race for nothing, how would YOU reward the concours winners, they already get their car photos "ON THE COVER OF THE ROLLING STONE", aka... K. Tanaka's site...

And no one is gonna get a head start in the race, for having THE PRETTIEST car.
Yes, some us of that paint... know damn good and well we'll never paint to CONCOURS ability... nor do we care. My stuff and my teammates are satisfied with my work, that's what's important to me... and yes, the racing part, too!!!

You great painters are to be rewarded for your fine work... but it won't help you or the person who buys your wares, go any faster than my or anyone else's regular schemes.

Some of you guys bitch about the dumbest stuff.

And some of us who reply... are bitchin', too.

[JerseyJohn]

IMO one thing in life I'm sure we realize is that "no matter what the rules are, there will ALWAYS be those that are not happy."

My advice to everyone is, within the context of the rules; express yourself, whether simple or complex, all chrome or a Noose job. It's ALL good.

Relax, have fun, and for goodness sakes, quit sounding like you sit down to PEE!!

[tonyp]

Noose, I saw that head bouncing down the straight. LOL...

[Ron Hershman]

Were his "nuts" following close behind???

[Larry Mattingly]

I think it is important to remember that we are attempting to appeal to the masses, and recreate the spirit (yeah, I said it... LOL) of past eras with the retro concept. Look at the photos from back in the day. All of them were well painted and detailed.

One way to attract new people is to have the cars look 'nice'. In that respect I feel the general appearance of the cars is VERY important. There should not be clear sides, flat pro drivers, see-through paint jobs, etc.

No one is asking you to go into as much detail as Noose. I will NEVER beat Noose or Jack Beers for a concours trophy, but I have pledged that our cars will look better in the future.

Like a chassis, motors, tires, etc., the body and interior are a part of the car. And that is the part we present for view to the public.

Can't paint? Buy a decent one. If you can't solder, you have to purchase a chassis. A Red Fox body costs $20... If you can afford to spend that much on bearings, you can spend that much for a body.

Many have said that this form of racing is not supposed to be 'inexpensive'. Spend a few dollars on appropriate numbers and sponsor decals.

I would be supportive if the tech nazi sent people back to mount a presentable body to meet the intention of the rules. No excuse for crappy-looking cars.

LM

[Noose]

There are plenty of affordable painted bodies out there. Red Fox for one, Sprays by Mac and Al Reeders too, that are all relatively inexpensive.

If I could, I would do "production" bodies like I did back in the day but I don't have the time. Real work gets in the way.

[tonyp]

Larry, you are right, but outside of making sure drivers are 3-D, painted and the bodies do not have clear sides and see-through paint, that is all you can do. You can not turn someone away from tech due to bad taste in a paint job, the person who painted it may think it's beautiful, god knows if that was the case I would not have raced much the past year.

Even if you look at the old Rod & Custom and Car Model Races there were crappy-looking bodies being run. It will always be an issue as long as we are racing rather then running slot cars.

I personally love Noose's work and appreciated a killer paint job, but I consider bodies to be like tires - disposable. I mount them to last one race with the greatest performance. This is why I really hate to run any of Noose's stuff for a our series races. It is too good to waste.

[tonyp]

Noose, I think it is time to teach your wife how to fire up the airbrush. LOL..

[Noose]

The stepson, since he's the graphics major now in college. Hmm... he'll want way too much money for it.

[MG Brown]

Isn't Paulo (in Brazil) paying his way through college painting bodies for Red Fox???

[Noose]

I'm on the reverse plan... working my way to retirement!

[Larry Mattingly]

Tony,

I was referring to turning away clear sides etc.

Ken Swanson became my hero at R4...

His cars were pretty and fast...

And everything on his cars was 'throw-away'... bodies, chassis, axles, you name the part...

Seriously, I would think personal pride would prevent you from wanting to run a 'crappy' looking car.

To each his own. Run 'em ugly. But, at least eliminate the clear sides, so the chassis can't be in view.

LM

[Phil Smith]

And some of us who reply... are bitchin', too.

I'm bitchin' about all the bitchin'...

Seriously, why can't the nice paint job guys just do thier thing and leave the non-nice paint guys alone? The guys with bad paint jobs don't complain about the nice bodies. Maybe the guys with nice looking cars are snobs, and enjoy puttin' everyone else down!

Maybe we should start making fun of everyone that's more than 5% off the winning pace as well. "Worthless no drivin', no wrenchin' morons!"

[JerseyJohn]

Three cheers. Bob. Well said, my man.

... Until the next topic

[JerseyJohn]

FYI Sharpie makes OIL paint-based units in different colors and widths. Extra fine for body lines, medium for numbers, etc. Real paint for real racers!!!

[Noose]

I'm bitchin' about all the bitchin'...

Seriously, why can't the nice paint job guys just do their thing and leave the non-nice paint guys alone? The guys with bad paint jobs don't complain about the nice bodies. Maybe the guys with nice looking cars are snobs, and enjoy puttin' everyone else down!

You never heard me complaining, Phil. The conversation taking place revolves around a couple of things. First, how concours should be judged in the future. Second, all racers presenting suitable bodies. The definition of suitable is what is really at hand here and FWIW bodies with clear sides are not presentable and that will be addressed at future races.

As far as concours judging is concerned, it is matter of determing how it can be improved upon in the future. That's one thing the IRRA insists upon: improvement.

[Noose]

After reading all of this concourse discussion and the verbal lashing Noose gave at the R-4 in tech I took some important steps to improve the looks of my cars in the future.

But, Bob, you would have surely won concours for your F1 chassis. As Dennis and I both told you in person, that was a work of art.

So I'll tell that Tech Nazi to cut you some slack on your sack.

[Mopar Rob]

Those guilty were advised at tech. No more five-second paint jobs... having to paint the sides will increase production painting time by an extra two to four seconds.

Are you still going to be able to meet Tech Time with the extra two-four seconds or will we need to have an RIW to fix it?

Hey Mods:

Someone or something edited my post and changed Takt Time to Tech Time. It wasn't a typo, it was in reference to Ron stating his production painting time will go up 2-4 seconds.
CLICK HERE

Takt Time is defined as:


Where:

• T_a = Net Available Time to Work eg. [minutes of work / day]
• T_d = Total demand (Customer Demand) eg. [units produced / day]
• T = TAKT Time eg. [minutes of work / unit produced]

Net available time is the amount of time available for work to be done. This excludes break times and any expected stoppage time (for example scheduled maintenance, Team Briefings, etc).

As an example, if you have a total of 8 hours in a shift (gross time) less 30 minutes lunch, 30 minutes for breaks (2 x 15 mins), 10 minutes for a Team Brief and 10 minutes for basic Operator Maintenance checks, then;

Net Available Time to Work = (8 hours x 60 minutes) - 30 - 30 - 10 - 10 = 400 minutes.

If Customer Demand was, say, 400 units a day and you were running one shift, then your line would be required to spend a maximum of one minute to make a part in order to be able to keep up with Customer Demand.

In reality, people can never maintain 100% efficiency and there may also be stoppages for other reasons, so allowances will need to be made for these instances and thus you will set up your line to run at a proportionally faster rate to account for this.

[Noose]

Rob... OK, OK... I get it... I need to tech faster and Ron needs to develop an improved "Fast Ones" spray technique.

[Mopar Rob]

The definition of suitable is what is really at hand here and FWIW bodies with clear sides are not presentable and that will be addressed at future races.

Shot down before I had a chance.

Sano Dave was checking out my cars at Swiss's for rattle can primer and clear sides. I told him he would have to wait awhile, since I still had too many painted bodies in my R4 paint scheme, When they get beat up I would change to the primer, now I'll never have the opportunity. I still need work on begging, borowing, or painting an interior since I had to return my borrowed one back to Ray Price. I just don't have the patience for interior painting.

[Phil Smith]

You never heard me complaining Phil.

Joe,

No, I didn't, and I don't want anyone to think I'm against anyone painting nice bodies. In fact, I use to do some fairly decent painting myself. I was several notches below your league, but I have lot of airbrush equipment (in storage) and at one time did "OK". And, Mac just painted a body for me in my colors that's awesome, so I'll actually be running nice bodies. Also, having painted quite a bit myself, I can appreciate the great work that you top painters are doing.

But if a guy doesn't want to spend time or money on a nice body that's going to be torn to hell anyway, or chooses to run a lightly-sprayed body that has a performance advantage, I say that's their choice. Maybe it should be required that the sides are painted, but that's it.

I think everyone should just worry about their own car and leave everyone else the hell alone.

[Mike Patterson]

I've been thinking about just painting my cars white, then using different colored Sharpies® to create a design. They would be easy to touch up after a race, as well as remove completely, and start over. Would something like this even be allowed? I gar-ron-tee I could draw up some pretty neat stuff!

Mike Patterson