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I just want consistent motors


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#51 Phil Hackett

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 10:14 AM

Maybe the ultimate solution is not to race on tracks that demand the elite motors. Flat tracks seem to even the motor thing out. King tracks accentuate motor importance.


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#52 Half Fast

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 10:25 AM

Regarding the TSR and Falcon, they had nowhere near the longevity of the Hawk Retro, thus making them more expensive (race to race) than the HR.

 

Cheers,


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#53 Steve Deiters

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 10:49 AM

Kind of a tangential question. Are there any over the counter endbells that will fit the Retro Hawk? Just curious.



#54 MSwiss

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 10:55 AM

You can get endbells to fit on the can, but they are not of any use with the stock arm, because they are timed to work with the stock endbell, which does not have the brushes at 3 and 9 o'clock.


Mike Swiss
 
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#55 Steve Deiters

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 10:59 AM

You can get endbells to fit on the can, but they are not of any use with the stock arm, because they are timed to work with the stock endbell, which does NOT have the brushes at 3 and 9 o'clock.


I'm think putting a different arm with compatible timing. Any brand names on the endbells?

#56 Cheater

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 11:08 AM

- The evidence and testimony suggests pretty overwhelmingly that the new batch is as a whole slower than the old batch.
- The fact that Sam, Howie, or Tom got fast 7R motors does not change the fact that the new batch is slower.

- The fact that it's not JK Tim's fault also does not change the fact that that the new batch is slower.


Here's my only quibble with your thoroughly excellent post, Jim.

 

So far, all the evidence I've seen regarding the peformance of the 7R is what is called apocryphal or anecdotal and I don't feel any definitive conclusion can be drawn. There is no hard repeatbale data yet available to support such a claim. 


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#57 Cheater

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 11:14 AM

Maybe the ultimate solution is not to race on tracks that demand the elite motors. Flat tracks seem to even the motor thing out. King tracks accentuate motor importance.


I wouldn't argue with this, but what can be done about it? There is a segment of the 1/24 racing community that basically refuses to race on anything other than King tracks.

To me, this is just another example illustrating how the complete lack of leadership in the overall 1/24 slot racing arena over the years has impacted the commercial raceway industry. If there had been an industry association advising that smaller tracks were a more profitable, sustainable choice for raceways (supported by solid historical data), we might be in a different place today.


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Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#58 Arne Saknussem

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 11:23 AM

You are very much like today's media - slanted and biased! 

 

OK... this is off-topic, but since it's out there... media bias is in the eye/ear of the consumer.  These days you have the luxury of selecting that medium which conforms to whatever warped worldview you subscribe to. The concept of "fact" is under serious attack.

 

Hey! Now that I've typed it out, I see that it's no so off-topic after all.


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#59 Noose

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 11:29 AM

Maybe the ultimate solution is not to race on tracks that demand the elite motors. Flat tracks seem to even the motor thing out. King tracks accentuate motor importance.

 

We don't race on all Kings and the ones that used 7Rs on the fastest one we have here - Port Jeff - were more than just fine. We have flat tracks, Engleman, and Hillclimbs in our series.


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#60 Cheater

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 11:43 AM

A further point: anyone who has raced on commercial racks for a long time knows that what performance a particular motor exhibits is not solely determined by the motor alone. The particulars of the track's power source and the wiring arrangement feeding the lanes is a non-trivial part of the equation.

 

And that is seemingly being completely ignored in this contentious discussion.


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#61 MSwiss

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 11:58 AM

I'm think putting a different arm with compatible timing. Any brand names on the endbells?

 

The Pro Slot or JK Hawk are probably it.

 

But then using the existing Pro Slot and Koford arms for mini-motors, you need to shorten the can.

John Havilcek has built numerous motors like this, making his own custom arm. IIRC, he calls them Walnuts.

Anyway, when you were done, with the closed end can, you would essentially have a physically stronger version of a Pro Slot or JK mini-motor.


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#62 tonyp

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 12:09 PM

I wouldn't argue with this, but what can be done about it? There is a segment of the 1/24 racing community that basically refuses to race on anything other than King tracks.

 

To me, this is just another example illustrating how the complete lack of leadership in the overall 1/24 slot racing arena over the years has impacted the commercial raceway industry. If there had been an industry association advising that smaller tracks were a more profitable, sustainable choice for raceways (supported by solid historical data), we might be in a different place today.


Since the start of commercial slot car racing since the early '60s, the quest was always to have the biggest, baddest track around. Things like American blacks and Hillclimbs were considered junk and kiddy tracks. I pitted plenty of times on a Hillclimb while racing on the "real" track, a King or Engleman 220.

 

If the tracks were smaller all along and/or 1/32 was the preferred scale, slots would probably be much healthier now.


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#63 don.siegel

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 12:36 PM

Don't kid yourself, Tony - when I started racing in France, the classes were all 1/32 and the intro class was production, with a Parma International 32 chassis and a spec motor from Italy, called SME (seems it was a windshield wiper or car window motor originally). We had all the same problems, with some motors being a lot faster than others, some lasting 10 races while others barely lasted one, etc. They were theoretically sealed, but it seems any good DIY guy could take it apart and advance the timing, without leaving any traces - sound familiar? 

 

This was done to avoid having to police the standard Parma 16D motors, but still doesn't seem to have worked all that well. Plus, there were restrictions on bending the chassis to get a lower CoG, but that was always a rather vague area. I eventually worked my way up to where I was a semi-final contender, and occassionally a final - but there was still a pretty big speed gap between the top handful of racers and the rest, probably down to natural tuning and driving talent more than anything else, but the rumors were still there. 

 

Nonetheless, I had a lot of very enjoyable races! 

 

After a few years the national federation switched to 1/24 Flexi/Super 16D and X12/open chassis cars - probably a bit more consistent, but the best guys still won - drat! 

 

On the other hand, we had mostly flat tracks, but a few were still longer, where speed counted more. 

 

Don 


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#64 Cheater

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 12:43 PM

Don,

 

I won't speak for Tony but my comment was mostly concerned with the less square footage required by the smaller tracks, thus making for more affordable, sustainable rent/lease payments for the raceway owners.


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#65 don.siegel

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 12:55 PM

Ah, duly noted Greg, I kind of jumped the gun on that... but of course the whole point is to have a track, in any scale, where you can really unleash your car! 

 

I thought Tony was referring more to 1/32 cars being equal, lower cost, less competitive... 

 

Don 



#66 tonyp

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 12:58 PM

I was on the same thought process as Greg.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#67 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 01:10 PM

JimF wrote: Pointing out that JK Tim has to fix it is silly. He can't fix it. It also doesn't matter what happened or why. It is what it is. The various governing bodies can't fix it either. But... It is however, the responsibility of the governing bodies to figure out how to deal with it.

 

Jim hit the nail right on the head!


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#68 Howie Ursaner

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 01:25 PM

My F1 at the Sano had a 7R motor in it. It is the same motor that is in it now and the same that was in it when I got to Chicago. I never paid attention to which markings were on my motors. Mike pointed out to me at the race that i had a 7R. To say anything about it being anything else is ridiculous.

 

I don't know if it is a punch bowl winner or not but it was fast at Chicagoland. The picture I posted of the motor shows the markings and i had to shoot a few pics to catch the 7R markings. The flash in the tech sheet pic wiped out the detail of the markings.

 

I have been getting two fast motors out of 10 with all my Hawks, whether they are marked Made in China or R Made in China, so if Hansen has two 7R fast ones out of 6 he is doing really good.

 

If we need to do hand-out Retro Hawk motors at big races or whatever, it doesn't make any difference to me.


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#69 Tim Wilkins

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 01:48 PM

Fastest of R Hawk Retro motor is faster than Fastest of 7R Hawk Retro motor. That has been verified by the manufacturer.

 

Fastest of the R Hawk Retro motors are still out there in unknown quantities but can no longer be purchased.

 

Punch bowl King track races is where this discrepancy will mostly likely show up.

 

As mentioned before by myself and others, "It is the responsibility of the governing bodies to figure out how to deal with it."


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#70 Cap Henry

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 01:58 PM

Everyone can send me their fastest of the R motors and I'll happily "dispose" of them LOL.
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#71 John Streisguth

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 02:16 PM

Fastest of R Hawk Retro motor is faster than Fastest of 7R Hawk Retro motor. That has been verified by the manufacturer.
 
Fastest of the R Hawk Retro motors are still out there in unknown quantities but can no longer be purchased.
 
Punch bowl King track races is where this discrepancy will mostly likely show up.
 
As mentioned before by myself and others, "It is the responsibility of the governing bodies to figure out how to deal with it."


And does anyone have details of exactly how this was "verified"? Was this on a dyno? Was this on a track? If so, what kind of track and car? What break-in process was used (if any)? If it was simply taking a sampling of motors straight of the production line and putting them on a power supply and taking some readings, it may or may not have anything to do with how the motors perform on the track.  
 
There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that "rocket" motors are in the 7R batch, too.  
 
We still have not had any word about the possibility of undersize wire being on some motors, or some issue that would cause the armatures to ohm out higher than the previous batch. IMO, no conclusion can be made at this time about what the "situation" is, and what (if anything) can or will be done about it.  
 
Geez, so many people getting their panties in a bunch before all the information is available.   :dash2:


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#72 Zippity

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 02:18 PM

Go flat - Go fast - have fun.   :) :)

 

Track800_600wm.JPG


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#73 MSwiss

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 02:22 PM

Fastest of R Hawk Retro motor is faster than Fastest of 7R Hawk Retro motor. That has been verified by the manufacturer.
 
Fastest of the R Hawk Retro motors are still out there in unknown quantities but can no longer be purchased.
 
Punch bowl King track races is where this discrepancy will mostly likely show up.
 
As mentioned before by myself and others, "It is the responsibility of the governing bodies to figure out how to deal with it."

 

JK Tim hasn't verified anything. Everything he quoted were dyno numbers.

His goal was to eliminate any motors with out of spec, high or low timing.

Whether there were 1, 10, or 100 of those motors, with that out of spec high timing, who knows?

And whether they would translate to anything useful on the track is debatable. Along with higher dyno RPM readings, comes less brakes and less bottom end.

Bottom line, the only real verification is Howie's recent win at the Sano, and the recent wins at BP, by Sam Rackham and Duran's team, with 7R motors.

PS: Looks like John S posted basically the same thing as me. LOL.


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#74 DOCinCocoa

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 02:40 PM

Looks like Mike Swiss beat me to it. Tim: your first line is wrong. JK data is from a dyno. It is not on-track data.


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#75 Tim Wilkins

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 04:23 PM

Bottom line, the only real verification is Howie's recent win at the Sano, and the recent wins at BP, by Sam Rackham and Duran's team, with 7R motors.

 

Mike,

 

Even though you touted the winning 7R motor of Sam Rackman in the Boola Bash F1 race, Sam never broke 4.2 in best lap time of the A Main. Previous winners in the F1 race for several month's past were in the 4.0s. The Can Am race the same day had podium winners running 4.0's with R motors. I would be willing to bet Sam has some R motors in his box or other cars that are faster than his winning F1 car.  Team Duran winning the Enduro with a 7R motor? Totally different type of race as the word "Enduro" suggests.

 

Several of us have purchased 7R motors that are noticeably slower than the R motors we were used to. Let me give you an example. I purchased a 7R motor for the monthly Wing car race at BPR as my last motor had worn out. This race is full punch no braking for six of the eight lanes. In other words, no driving skills required other than allowing for an occasional pass. My best time was 3.4 laps where I was in the 3.2s previously. The rest of the field was running 3.2s or better with the R motors. Time will bear all this out with the current batch of 7R motors.

 

I'm not saying just throw out the whole batch of 7R motors. JK Products made a big investment and we will support them with our purchases. However, there is a discrepancy and adjustments should and need to be made, especially in the big races. Making excuses is not the way to handle this issue. Listen to the racers, accept the discrepancy, make adjustments, and let's race.


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#76 MSwiss

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 04:38 PM

What does 4.0s in the Can-Am race and 4.0s at previous F1 races have to do with the race Sam went 4.20 in?

The answer is nothing. You conveniently left out no one went faster than 4.15 in the same race, on the same day, with the same track conditions.

I'm sure Bryan will come up with a solution to your issue.

In the meantime, the IRRA® will wait for some hard data from JK.


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#77 Tim Wilkins

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 05:20 PM

In the meantime, the IRRA® will wait for some hard data from JK.

 

You can't have it both ways, Mike. You can't dismiss the fact that JK said the fastest of the R motors were faster than the fastest of the 7R motors by stating, "Everything he quoted were dyno numbers." and now say "we will wait for some hard data from JK."

 

Ultimately I predict your data will come from the track where the fastest R Hawk Retro motors will consistently beat the fastest 7R Hawk Retro motors.


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#78 MSwiss

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 05:31 PM

Hard data on the exact size of the armature wire.

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#79 tonyp

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 05:44 PM

We still don't have an answer on the wire and how many motors are out there. Once all data is available to the board, as Mike has repeatedly said, we will make the best decision we can. Will it satisfy everyone? Probably not but you can be assured it will be discussed fully and probably fought over by the board and will be what we feel is the fairest way to handle it for JK and the racers.


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#80 John Luongo

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:48 AM

Interesting discussion on the results of production variations to products and their acceptance by the end users: "us."

Things change all the time, even if we don't like to admit it. Some don't like change, especially slot racers. Unfortunately, we can either accept the changed product and deal with it or hang on to our "old design" motors and go kicking and screaming. Either way doesn't stop change.

However if a new design is advertised as "better, stronger, faster" and does't deliver the performance, we vote with our wallets and don't make the purchase. I would suspect that to make a $10 motor perform at a consistently high level would make it a $60 motor for the end user.

I am guilty of using motors past their prime hoping that during the next race the motor will come "alive" and become a scorcher, when in fact I should have tossed it two races ago. After five races I don't figure that $10 motor owes me anything.

Best,

john
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#81 Pappy

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 08:27 AM

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what RPM and torque these motors are rated at. The torque is rated in gm-cm. I've never seen this published for 1/24 motors but most of the 1/32 motors have it.

Jim "Danger" Dunaway aka Butch
 
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#82 Dominator

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 09:18 AM

I believe the motors are rated at 50,000 RPM. With that being said I have had most motors run between 50-55,000 RPM. Rarely any below 50,000. I will say the two 7Rs I tried only ran up to 47,500 RPM at 12 volts.
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#83 Noose

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 09:25 AM

I have never tested any Hawk Retro on the dyno at 12 volts new. Right out of the package and at 6 volts they typically show  23,000 RPM. After a short break-in they range from 23,500 to 24,500 at 6 volts. Now, when they are fully broken in I have seen RPMs as much 27,500 again at 6 volts.
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#84 tonyp

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 09:31 AM

Ditto.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#85 Steve Deiters

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 09:39 AM

I don't mean to throw more gasoline on the fire, but it is my understanding that the Retro Hawk is a motor that has been re-purposed for use in slot racing. It's original purpose is powering mirrors in automobiles. 
 
Based on the RPM numbers listed above has any consideration been given to standardizing on any number of candidates from the 1/32 scale home set manufacturers that may be in that range. I would assume (correctly or incorrectly)  that these motors were designed for use in slot racing to higher QC standards for a motor operating at variable and high RPM ranges rather than one that would only be used for seconds at a time in application where variations in speed from motor to motor are not relevant.
 
The challenge would be to find a motor stout enough for Retro service and one that can be sealed and tamperproof (if that's even possible) in some way.
 
Just a thought.
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#86 Pappy

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:19 AM

Steve,
 
I've mentioned this to the board before but they don't even want to give it a try. The reason I asked for the torque rating is because they have 1/32 scale motors that are rated from 164 to 365 gm-cm of torque and from 20,000 to 50,000 RPM. So maybe you wouldn't need a 50,000 RPN to get the same speed as a Hawk Retro, just a different gear ratio. The motors are $18.
 
Here's a LINK to NSR motors. There're other ones available. 

Jim "Danger" Dunaway aka Butch
 
Danger is my middle name, that's why I race slot cars.

 

Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.
 
"In the beginning of a change, the PATRIOT is a scarce man, and brave and hated
and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it cost
nothing to be a PATRIOT." - Mark Twain, 1904

 

 


#87 Bryan Warmack

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:27 AM

Regarding the TSR and Falcon, they had nowhere near the longevity of the Hawk Retro, thus making them more expensive (race to race) than the HR.


Actually, the TSRs out here at BPR were a great value for a long time on our King track races. Super reliable and there wasn't any search for the "magic bullets" as with the Falcon 's and Hawks as they were remarkably equal in performance so you didn't need to buy so many of them. And now some of the Hawks are showing up with soft brushes so they're good for maybe two races, the same as the TSR.
 
The TSR is still a great motor for our Flat track races and $1 cheaper. :)


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#88 Tom Thumb Hobbies

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:28 AM

Butch, you mention "give it a try" as if it is just that easy. It's not.

 

I have tried them because I stock some of the motors you are talking about. But a real test would require talking at least eight people to buy these motors and run them in several races over a period of time to accurately gauge their speed, drivability, reliability, etc.

That is the real challenge.


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#89 Steve Deiters

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:29 AM

That prototype you (Butch) put together using an ancient Retro Can-Am chassis is what I was thinking of when I wrote it.  I drove the car. The power and brakes were quite surprising even though the chassis was old and the tires were a bit crusty.



#90 MSwiss

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:35 AM

Two questions, Bryan.

What was your reason to go to the Hawk Retro?

Did I ever contact you, suggesting the SCRRA adopt the motor?

The reason I ask is, Tim N has blamed me here on Slotblog, and Mill has blamed me on the SCRRA Facebook page.


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#91 Cheater

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:57 AM

Butch, there are other factors, too.

 

Most 1/32 motors are a different size than the FKs and that's a problem from an existing chassis standpoint, as well as the chassis bracket standpoint.

 

And few if any of the 1/32 motors that might be considered are available through the 1/24 distributors most raceways use.


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#92 slotcarone

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 11:10 AM

Does anybody really believe any of these other motors are more consistent and/or reliable than the Retro Hawks we are using?? Get real, folks!! Just because they are rated at a certain RPM means nothing for consistency!


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#93 Steve Deiters

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 11:24 AM

Butch, there are other factors, too.

 

Most 1/32 motors are a different size than the FKs and that's a problem from an existing chassis standpoint, as well as the chassis bracket standpoint.

 

And few if any of the 1/32 motors that might be considered are available through the 1/24 distributors most raceways use.

 

Cheater,

 

You make some valid points such as brackets and distribution availability, but both are things that can be worked around.  Slot racers are generally mechanically inclined so I think they can solve any mounting issues and distributors & tracks will stock products that they can sell. If this works the motors will be there.  My guess is that the holes for mounting are some industry standard and shouldn't be a problem. I might be wrong.  In summary I don't see the issues you mention as a stumbling blocks.  Also it is very early in the conversation.

 

My suggesting of this as I said was not to add fuel to the fire, but perhaps provide some alternative considerations or at the very least a "Plan B" motor.  If track owners Mike McMasters or Mike Swiss want to buy a lot of eight of these motors for the purpose of testing put me down for two-one for CanAm and the other for F1.  The NSR 3030 seems to be the highest RPM motor of the EVO series. http://cloverleafrac...roducts_id=1069  Perhaps others in this brand group should be considered. I don't know.  The notation in the spec that I liked is that these are "...not suitable for home racing wall pack power supplies" so that should tell us something.  The only negative I see is that the motors are $17.99 each which is a bit of a jump from what we are paying now, but if it solves the problems........

 

Now that only leave six more motors to be placed for evaluation. Hopefully some racers in the upper 1% will step forward to give them a try, do some testing, and see what happens.  Those at the top and bottom of the spectrum on this issue all have a vested interest in retro succeeding.

 

SD


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#94 Tim Neja

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 11:25 AM

My last post on the subject---I never "blamed" you for SCRRA changing! I DID say that you were and STILL ARE relentless in your soap box stumping for the Retro Hawk. I ALSO said long ago----that IF we ever allowed the Retro Hawk it would KILL the TSR just like it did the puppy dogs because it's a FASTER motor!!! And ANY time you introduce a faster motor--- it will KILL ALL the others!! 

 

I've ALSO said all along---that FASTER is not BETTER!! Going to the Retro Hawk has done NOTHING to make us better racing!! It's FORCED us to ONE motor--that is NOW exhibiting ALL the same problems we had before and MORE!! It's NOT as not as reliable in it's consistency as the TSR's were---but it has MORE rockets and MORE duds!!! BUT---it obsoleted the TSR once it became legal.  It's NOT the magic bullet you kept telling everyone it was---BECAUSE Tim keeps tinkering with it causing lot's of changes that are not necessarily for the better!! Like the short shaft debacle, and NOW---the inconsistency of both brush hardness--and the NEW 7R's being both SLOWER and FASTER as a batch of motors!! 

 

I"m tired of BOTH you and Greg putting words in my mouth. YOU said Tim was asking for changes to these motors to try to make them MORE reliable/ consistent.  That's NOT what has happened---I don't blame him--I just wish he'd STOP and leave well enough alone.  ALL of this motor BS had calmed down from his short shaft fiasco---now it's back again with even more questions/problems that NO ONE is answering and lot's of finger pointing and posturing --- just stop changing things.  Leave it alone.

Done---going racing!! :)


She's real fine, my 409!!!

#95 S.O. Watt

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 11:31 AM

This is an untrue statement taken completely out of context. Period

The R7s are running slower than the Rs I have by around .2. Period
 

Howie PM'd me with this: "Hansen has a couple of 7Rs that are fast, he bought six - two duds, two good, two fast."


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#96 Cheater

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 11:48 AM

My observation is that the actual facts of the situation don't seem to concern you very much. Many less than factual claims in your post #95 IMO.

 

For just one example: "Going to the Retro Hawk has done NOTHING to make us better racing!! It's FORCED us to ONE motor."

 

Really? The motor "forced" you? IRRA® "forced" you? JK "forced" you? 

 

BTW, while I certainly may have misinterpreted a couple of your statements, you'll have to show me where I put "words in your mouth."

 

Tim, can't say I'm sorry to see you bail on this civil discussion, assuming you actually do as promised this time.


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#97 Cheater

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 12:09 PM

But a real test would require talking at least eight people to buy these motors and run them in several races over a period of time to accurately gauge their speed, drivability, reliability, etc.


And on all the diferent tracks like original Kings, Gerdings "speedbowls", Hillclimbs, etc., which have a fairly wide range of track voltages, some in excess of 14v.

It's not a given that the success some of the 1/32 motors achieve on 1/32 tracks would be duplicated in 1/24 Retro. And it's also probably not an accurate assumption that they'd be any more consistent performance-wise nor have any better availability over time.

Gregory Wells

Never forget that first place goes to the racer with the MOST laps, not the racer with the FASTEST lap


#98 MSwiss

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 12:15 PM

This is an untrue statement taken completely out of context. Period
The R7s are running slower than the Rs I have by around .2. Period


Apologies, Tom.

I just posted what Howie volunteered to me, unsolicited, in a PM confirming his success with a 7R at the Sano.
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#99 John Luongo

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 12:32 PM

Just a thought. come up with a memorandum of understanding that would allow the use of these alternate motors for the last few races (3-4) in your season/series. Should generate a ton of track data under racing conditions. When the season/series ends, have the board evaluate the motor performance data and racer feedback as a guide on whether to accept any new motor designs for the next season/series. That would give racers, shop owners and manufacturers time to set up for the following racing season or next series.



#100 MSwiss

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 12:32 PM

Really? The motor "forced" you? IRRA® "forced" you? JK "forced" you? 


Greg,

I PM'd Bryan and requested he post the SCRRA's reason for adopting the Hawk Retro, so we can get an "official" answer.

Blaming the IRRA® or JK is ridiculous.

And I'm tired of my name getting thrown in because I recounted the good luck we had with them in Sano 7, with speed, reliability, and unique to the FK, longevity. Am I wrong to promote a great item to sell?

As far as the SCRRA had to do it because of it being faster, let me point out.

JK already had the faster Hawk 7. They resisted adopting that.
Parma, O/S, and JK had "faster" Ti22 and F1 bodies. They resisted adopting those.

Why couldn't they resist adopting the Hawk Retro?


Mike Swiss
 
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Two-time G7 World Champion (1988, 1990)
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