126 replies to this topic

[Phil Hackett]

But there's no need to take up surfing to enjoy that sort of scenery at the beach...

 
Being a surfer has higher social status than being a slot car racer in the eyes of females.

[MSwiss]

Haven Raceway & Hobby had neither a party or a rental program. Space and staffing due to the hobby side of the business made it at best a losing proposition. We were a hobby shop with a race track, not an amusement center. 

Also, quite frankly, that moves the goalposts. A party has no interest in the cars as long as they don't break, or the format, or the PRODUCT of slot car racing as a whole. 

"Fun" isn't quantifiable. I can't bottle it or hang it on a peg or assure it to any customer. I can laugh and joke and encourage until I'm blue in the face but I can't put it into my spreadsheet and say "Yes, every racer definitely had fun." 

I appreciate what you fellows are trying to say. Yes, a happy, hospitable, well-presented track with several thriving avenues of revenue has the best chance of succeeding.

 
Without a rental program, how do new people get to try it, to see if they want to get involved?
 
That's why I use good cars (JK21s, with Puppy Dog motors and a GT1 body) vs. WhisperJets.
 
PS: Thanks to all on the kind words. It's much appreciated.

[sportblazer350]

I don't think that a commercial raceway has to sell "speed" in order to maintain a business model. You can race all types of cars, at a variety of speeds, from slower vintage cars, slower hardbody cars (e.g. BRM, Scaleauto RTR, model bodies and H&R Racing brass chassis, etc.), to the fastest wing cars, and everything in between. No matter how fast or not, any grouping together is competitive.
 
For example, while racing HO scale, i built a traction magnet stuck down lightning fast car, can't remember all of the various parts anymore, and it was a blur on the track to watch. In a race, it was full throttle. period. That was boring!!  Then back to racing Aurora ThunderJets and AFX cars in a variety of classes, then TycoPros and Riggens: now that was slower, but fun!! 
 
Same applies for today's 1/32 plasticars: with or without traction magnets, fast to slow, all types of classes. All are good and competitive. So if you need to go faster, you can simply race all of the various classes in any given scale, and everyone wins. The raceways can stock and sell more product to more people: racers, hobbyists, and the average fajily that wants to have some play time fun. 
 
For those who do not agree, and only view going faster as the only and best way to go: my reply to you is this: there simply are not enough of you to sustain the slot car hobby if you disapprove all of the other aspects of the hobby. And to those who think that scratchbuilding is the best way to go? Why don't you then build more chassis, sell them to your local raceway owner, so they can sell them and sell RTR assembled cars so people like me, that don't have those skills, can buy and race with you.
 
Rember this hobby's beginnings: it was all scratchbuilt, including hand-carved bodies, in the beginning. Making your own club tracks. Move forward some years to large tracks at commercial raceways with factory-built RTR cars, and all of the home sets and cars sold everywhere, and the hobby overall grew to it's heights in the 196s. I am not against pro racers, pro builders, pro sponsored teams at all. But that alone cannot sustain the hobby. It can and should be part of the overall hobby. We need the average consumer to be part of this hobby to keep it alive.
 
Mike Swiss, I really enjoyed your story and what you did with the family that came into your raceway for a night of fun.

Hopefully they will return and get more involved with your racing programs.

[Justin A. Porter]

Without a rental program, how do new people get to try it, to see if they want to get involved?
 
That's why I use good cars (JK21s, with Puppy Dog motors and a GT1 body) vs. WhisperJets.
 
PS: Thanks to all on the kind words. It's much appreciated.

 
We maintained demonstration cars for "try before you buy" for fresh faces that were built to be representative of our Juniors and GT1 class cars. Very effective - certainly much more so than WhisperJets - and we had solid starter set sales (alliteration is so much fun) for the past four years.

Admittedly, we also highly encouraged new faces to consider HO and 1/32 home sets because of the greater product variety and lower maintenance needs.

[Phil Hackett]

In all of this industry introspection there are a few successful raceways, either through good management and marketing or fortunate situations or both. I would defer to Jim Honeycutt or Tom Thumb Raceway, for example, on this forum as to make a track appealing. *Decades* of survival and making a living through a track surely is signs of making it work correctly.

[Racer36]

Agreed, Phil, and my post was not intended to take away from other successful raceways.

The idea is that there are several individuals who have taken what looks like a hopeless business case and made it work.

[MSwiss]

A party has no interest in the cars as long as they don't break, or the format, or the product of slot car racing as a whole. 

 

It seems like you had no interest in casual people walking in. It would be great if there was enough enthusiasts to make running a raceway viable.

Thursday, typically, is my enthusiast night.

The 59-year old guy is sitting next to a 72-year old guy, who is next to the 67 year old guy, all soldering or Dremeling away, or using my sander, bandsaw, drill presses, or paint booth in the back.

A 70-year old, semi-newbie pulls up a chair to BS, while watching the other three. Then a 65-year old, real newbie, comes over from his pit for advice and help from the first three.

Then the 90-year old guy walks in, with his 66-year old son, to run their fleet of old, stamped cars, with Parma Turbos with the brake wire removed.

So, there is a limited amount of people who want to do this as a hobby, and most, are older.

But there is almost an endless supply of kids who want their party by me, or four to six-year olds who are intrigued by the speed of my rentals, even on 6-7v, and the opportunity to chant "I'm winning... I'm winning."

[Cheater]

One thing that has always hurt slots, especially as the cars get faster, is that it is not a good spectator sport. Even Retro racing cars are too fast for the casual observer to follow. Today we consider Retro cars to be fairly slow, but they are faster than Group 7 cars were in the early '70s.

 

This point seems always to be remarked upon and while it's true that slot racing is unlikely to have ever been a spectator sport where tickets to view could be sold (although I think it has been tried a couple of times), I fail to see why this is viewed as a negative factor. 

And in the cases where tracks have been set up in malls or hotels where the general public had access, it seems to me that the average J & J Doe in the crowds did do a fair amount of spectating. Can't say if any of them were intrigued enough to get involved in the hobby, but it's certainly possible it happened.
 

And to those who think that scratchbuilding is the best way to go? Why don't you then build more chassis, sell them to your local raceway owner, so they can sell them and sell RTR assembled cars so people like me, that don't have those skills, can buy and race with you.

 

There are a number of prolific Retro builders from whom Retro chassis or cars can be easily acquired. There are even a few who market through the raceways, though the direct sales channel is far more often utilized. The point I would make is that someone who is not able to build himself should have no problem at all purchasing a decent legal Retro car these days.

 

Really slot car centres are a bit like hardware stores... you're less likely to go to the one with a limited range because the big store one caters for everyone.  

 

Good analogy. One that occurs to me is that raceways too often roughly mimic a department store that only offered dress shirts and pants and eschews T-shirts, polos, blue jeans, shorts, etc., etc.

[Half Fast]

For those who do not agree, and only view going faster as the only and best way to go: my reply to you is this: there simply are not enough of you to sustain the slot car hobby if you disapprove all of the other aspects of the hobby. And to those who think that scratchbuilding is the best way to go? Why don't you then build more chassis, sell them to your local raceway owner, so they can sell them and sell RTR assembled cars so people like me, that don't have those skills, can buy and race with you.

 

Adding to what Greg said above, there is no class of racing slot car from HO to Group 7 that you cannot buy from a pro level builder. The car will be instantly competitive, if you know how to drive it.

 

All you need is the funds and the desire to race.

 

Cheers,

[JimF]

Speed sells? IMO.... mebbenotsomuch. IMO and YMPWV is that speed is relative. Often, when on track testing or whatever and maybe running one of my slower cars... say... a Retro NASCAR with a Mini Brute, an onlooker will say oh!!! that's soooo fast. Driving even a Retro Can Am well is not something that everyone can do. Chop a second/lap or more off of that, and even fewer can do it. This is sorta the same opinion about biiiiiig tracks. The newbie or casual hobbyist has no clue that a small Kingleman or little American Black is a small track. They don't know any different. They don't know that a Mini Brute (etc.) is a "slow" motor.

 

If you want to attract "racers" they may turn up their noses at Mini Brute motors or shorter tracks. OTH, if you want to attract and nurture a "new" clientele, it may well be that slower cars and smaller tracks are a good way to go about it. Not that I am going to open a commercial raceway!!! But... if I were, I'd maybe do a Kingleman or Paperclip and a 100' black as a two track mix. I'd promote slower motors and not worry about the 'racers' who would eventually show up to bloviate about what "we oughta' be doin'."

 

Not even $0.02... just sayin'.

[Justin A. Porter]

It seems like you had no interest in casual people walking in.

 
That's actually quite where you're wrong, Mike. I had a true interest in selling slots cars to casual customers as well as racers.
 
The difference that I speak of is that I see a "slot car" and "slot car racing" as two completely separate products. If casual folks weren't interested in slot cars, Carrera wouldn't be the world's largest slot car manufacturer. Ignoring that would be intensely foolish.

1/24 commercial track racing is an entirely different matter. The products and marketing are geared almost entirely towards promoting that the latest new items make your car faster and make it easier to build fast cars. I have brought this up countless times to point to the tremendous retail hurdle that racing presents.

[Cheater]

The products and marketing are geared almost entirely towards promoting that the latest new items make your car faster and make it easier to build fast cars. I have brought this up countless times to point to the tremendous retail hurdle that racing presents.

And that speaks to the point I was trying to make originally. Just 'slot car racing' virtually never covers the cost of just housing the track.

How about some simplistic math, with some assumptions...

 

25' x 40' track footprint (sound familiar?) - 1,000 sq.ft.

Don't know what your cost per sq. ft per month was in Elyria, but a little research says $0.50 per sq.ft per month is at least possible.

So 1,000 x .50 = $500. To make $500 per month in gross profit per month from the slot racing activity, assuming 65% cost basis on parts, you'd have to sell $1,428 in parts just to your racers. There'd be some other revenue, from entry fees, snacks, etc., of course.

Of course, that's ignoring a very long list of other costs (some of them prorated): track maintenance, electricity, gas, taxes, licenses, salaries, etc., etc., etc. Probably could double or even triple the needed sales volume to just break even, forget about making a profit. This is just to cover the cost of the space for the track, mind you.

 

... I see a "slot car" and "slot car racing" as two completely separate products.

 

And I view that as largely an artificial distinction based on preference. It would be like operating a donut shop and only selling 3-5 varieties because you don't like all the other kinds of donuts that could be sold.

 

The 'prime directive' in business is to generate sufficient revenue to offset the costs of doing business and to make a profit. The penalty for not making that the central and necessary objective always gets enforced, sooner or later. You may guess how I learned this...

(And, Justin, please don't feel I am kicking you when you're down, as that is not my intention.)

[Bill from NH]

Is the distributor discount to tracks for parts now 35%? I ask only because it had been 40% for the better part of 50 years, but I haven't bought much slot car anything for about nine years.

[Cheater]

Good question, Bill.

 

I was working from memory and it ain't what it once was. Someone chime in and I'll re-do the numbers if it is usually 40%.

[axman]

The difference that I speak of is that I see a "slot car" and "slot car racing" as two completely separate products.

 

That's true, Justin... but only if you break it into two categories of customer.

 

1) Toy/hobby shop sale: Usually HO or 1/32 'home set.' The customer walks out the door and is no longer your concern. If you're charming and knowledgable they may come back for extra track, parts, or even another car but your pricing better be pretty good because now you are just another retailer and the customer has no loyalty.

 

2) Raceway sale: Here's where the dynamics change. You're selling a slot car to a total stranger to race at your place and that's a whole different ball game. A good raceway is more like a drop-in centre. You go there for fun, to learn, to meet up with your mates to discuss and share all manner of subjects. To go fast, or at least be competitive, knowledge and expertise of the the track owner and other regulars are shared with you... and that gives a sense of belonging... and loyalty with purchases to help support what has become 'your' track.

 

You know, some of my slot car raceway mates I have known for over 50 years... would never of happened just lining up to buy a slot car set to take home.

[Mark Wampler]

The title of the thread speaks volumes. Speed is relative. Speed isn't necessarily more fun. Speed doesn't necessarily make better drivers. Speed is expensive. Speed narrows the playing field. Speed lends itself to cheating. Lust for speed takes the fun out of our hobby. Speed kills.

 

I'll think of some more later!

[CDavis7]

My solution to what works and what doesn't is to just keep showing up as often as I can and buying parts from the raceways that I visit.

I'm always chasing speed. And to me, that means buying parts.

Am I wrong?

[Mark Wampler]

Maybe that is an upside to speed. It helps the slot economy. You have one up.

[Cheater]

Chris,

 

No, but IMO there aren't enough guys like you coming into any raceway to pay the bills. It would be great if that wasn't the case, but think otherwise is to ignore reality.

[CDavis7]

Greg- I guess, heres my point. The pursuit of speed is NOT the problem with slots as a business.

How many new, independent restaurants, fail in less than a year? Almost all of them. In fact, the stats are, any business that needs to turn a profit in less than 24 months will likely fail.

Ive never run a raceway so I wont pretend to know what it takes.

But please stop blaming racers for an owners failure as a viable business

[Rob Voska]

 
Being a surfer has higher social status than being a slot car racer in the eyes of females.

 

* No woman wants to see slot car racers without a shirt! 

 

* Mike keeps talking about his adjustable power supplies over and over.  Believe me you guys are totally missing his point.  They work!  No matter what you think of Mike's many, many, many, many legendary personalities he is right about this one.  it plays into the beginners hands & gives them a sense of success.

 

* If a new person bellies up to the counter and says I wanna git me one of those.  He can buy a Scalextric or Carrera in the color or real race team color of his choice and go have hours and hours of dependable fun.  The guy behind the counter goes here ya go, that'll be $XXX.  He don't get asked what chassis, body, motor, gear pitch, gear ratio, hub size, rubber compound, guide, guide nut, lead wire, aluminum pan, lightweight steel pan or the other lightweight steel pan, braid, braid clip, bushings.  Then parts all dumped in a bag & sent home to put it together..... WITHOUT DIRECTIONS!  Even if he makes it back he runs & guys are running over him that isin't fun.  Then he comes back again & the tires are all dried out & there is a newer whatever & his stuff is obsolete.

 

* Maybe shops should look to stable equipment for beginners.  There are always other classes to advance to.  In Estonia they only run Turboflexes.  Inside you might be laughing but if everyone has them what's the problem.  You can only sell so many parts to a racer.  But if you had 25 or 50 racers a week to sell to it's a lot easier to pay the rent.  

[Mark Wampler]

But please stop blaming racers for an owners failure as a viable business

 

 Few, very few tracks operate as a viable business.  Overhead kills even good businesses.  I wish things were different, otherwise, there would be tracks on every corner.

[CDavis7]

 
 Few, very few tracks operate as a viable business.  Overhead kills even good businesses.  I wish things were different, otherwise, there would be tracks on every corner.

[CDavis7]

Mark- I get that. But the OPs point of this thread was that the pursuit of speed is what kills a slot track business. Its like saying that the pursuit of speed kills a local running shoe business.

Thats simply not the case

[Phil Smith]

What's required to make a commercial slot car track successful is not a business I would want to be in.  5% racing and 95% a bunch of crap I have no interest in.