92 replies to this topic

[TSR]

Ha-ha-ha! Matt, you are funny... we will also never run out of Cox Chaparral 2, Lotus 40 and Cucarachas... still many to be found. 

I will re-shovel  the order in my listing when I get time, but basically, several of the cars I listed are the sole examples known to exist, and once again I would like to point out that "bits of a car" do not make a car.
What makes such cars rare in case of 'more than one", is a complete set of parts, assembled at the factory and surviving as such. Boxed examples a premium.
 

[TSR]

Well, yet another previously unknown car has surfaced, one of two now known to exist...
When the first example appeared in 2005 (and I purchased it), I wrongly speculated that someone had "made it up" from a known (but scarce) chassis and an anonymous and equally scarce body. Well, now there is ample proof that it was indeed issued as a RTR model, and that places it in the "Top Six"...

I will put pictures once the car, which appears to be in very good condition and little used, will have been delivered to our museum.

Meanwhile, I reshuffled my listing, since several of the rarest cars are the only examples know to exist. Hence...

1/ Precision "Series 2" (advertised as "Custom Slot Car Products) "Pacesetter Lola T70" and "Pacer Lotus 30" RTRs. At this time, only one each boxed examples, and one Lotus in Don Siegel's hands. Took over 20 years of research to at last, see a real one.

2/ Unique "Mako Shark RTR (only know example, while Don Siegel owns one of its equally scarce "black" chassis in his collection).
3/ Gar-Vic "Lunar" in boxed kit form (so far only one known example of a Gar-Vic kit)
4/ Classic "Stinger Roadster" kit (new, sealed in box, again, only one known to exist in intact form)
5/ Competition Hobbies BRP-Ford Indy car RTR (boxed or even loose, we have one, never ever seen another)
6/ (equally shared, as less than 3 examples of each are currently known):

Cyclonic "Tornado" Lola GT  RTR  (two known), Dugan Lola T70 & Lotus 30 RTRs (two known of each), International "Furious Fiat"  RTR (two known), Pactra "Meyers Manx" dune buggy RTR (two known, the second in body  form only), Pactra Matich SR3 (two known), Calex Chaparral 2F kit (new in box, two known), Testor 1966 "Harrison-Ford" Indy car RTR (only one known in box, possibly three others...) Testor Honda F1 RTR in metallic green color (boxed or even loose, only one known...)

13/ Lindberg Porsche 906 kit
14/ Pactra Ford MkIV & BRP-Ford Indy car RTRs (now 4 known Fords, 2 BRPs...)
15/ K&B Ford MkII RTR in box (about 4 in their boxes and a few "loose" examples)
16/ Monogram McLaren Elva in kit form with painted vacuum formed body (new in box, only a handful known...)

Any suggestions additions welcome.

Now about a listing of the most commonly found vintage slot cars? 
 

[don.siegel]

I think I know which one you're referring to P... thought I'd snatch it myself, but obviously Scott had his eye on it. I did check your list, but since it wasn't in there, I figured it wasn't factory. Then I looked back at the car, and it was awfully clean.... no box, but at least half a smoking gun! (and if I had gotten it, it would have come here before it got to the States...)

 

Most commonly found? 

 

I nominate the Strombecker D-Jag and Testa Rossa! With maybe the Eldon "Ferrari" coming in a close second. 

 

Altho by sheer numbers, it may have been one of the Aurora T-jets: question is, which one? 

 

In 1/24, maybe the K&B Ford GT? the Revell Lotus-Ford and BRM F1s? 

 

Don 

[TSR]

Don, most commonly found in the USA:
yes, the Strombecker Jag is right up there... with the Eldon P4... as well as the  Cox Lotus 40 and  Classic Manta Ray. I see less of the K&B Ford than of those two... and of the Revell F1 cars.
In the HO scale, hard to tell, because I am not looking at them.

One search brings fish...  https://www.ebay.com...assic manta ray


 

[MattD]

All good.    In 1/24  the Classic Manta Ray seems #1 to me.   #2 could be the Cox Chap, Lotus or Ford GT.   Maybe the K&B Ford GT or Porsche  somewhere around 3-5.  Somewhere in the top 10 I think you can put the Monogram Porsche.    Maybe the Garvic Coronado in the top 10.     I  think there is probably more I am forgetting.  

[strummer]

When you first asked "the most commonly found...", my first thought was the Strombecker Jag in 1/32; I wasn't even thinking of HO (my bad).

 

One of the things I'm finding to be interesting and (surprising) about watching prices on eBay is the fact that so many of the Aurora "T-Jet" cars often command as high (or in many cases higher) selling prices than do the "average" 1/32 cars.  

 

I can remember back in the '60s when a 1/32 car might cost $6.98, a 1/24 might be close to (or over) 10 bucks, and the T Jets were $2.98...they were cute, but always struck me as looking like "caricatures" of the cars they were based on...no disrespect intended.  

 

Mark in Oregon

[TSR]

Yes Mark, things change... HO cars are collected by far more people because far more played with them mostly in the 1970s, and now these people collect 1960s examples.

One of the cars I should mention on my "rarity listing" is in fact, "cars" at the plural: ANY of the Dyna-Rewind early kits sold at standard retail plus one dollar for the rewound and dynamically balanced motor exchanged from the original kit ot RTR model. Cox, Russkit and cars from other manufacturers were advertised, but so far and after over 20 years of our nose to the ground, we have been able to only find ONE example, a Cox Cheetah with a Dyna-Rewind Cox TT-X150 motor (Mabuchi FT36D) totally intact in its original box.
How do we know it is genuine? Simple, Dyna-Rewind never marketed a "36D" separately... hence it cannot be a forgery.
I was told by "Bud" Stordhal, one of the two partners in the company, that about 1000 kits from various manufacturers were so modified: stock motor out, replaced by the rewind job.

[don.siegel]

I got one of those 1000 cars in 1967: a Cuc with the 16D Dyna motor - my first Thingie, my first factory rewind... 

 

That 36D Dyna is indeed rare! 

 

Don 

[TSR]

Don,
I have never seen another yet, and never seen another genuine RTR or kit with a Dyna motor with the silver and blue sticker. We have quite a number of cars with Dyna-Rewind motors, but all are custom built jobs, not production models like that Cheetah. I was stunned when I saw it for sale and it was not even expensive (actually less than a standard kit generally goes for) because I figured that none of the bidders knew what they were looking at.

[don.siegel]

You're lucky I didn't see it - but I wouldn't have outbid Scott anyway! 

 

I'm afraid I don't remember if the Dyna in my Cuc had a label - I kind of think not, but if that's as dependable as my other memories I wouldn't put too much stock in it! 

 

I do remember I was less than impressed by the car, but on the other hand, I didn't realize at the time that you could add some lead weights, etc. It needed a lot of goop on our formica track. The Dyna was a high revver, but that's about all I remember about it. 

 

Don 

[Jairus]

Soooo... only production cars qualify?

I handbuilt a half dozen Gilbert Sundance cars. Pretty rare as I have seen none of them on E-bay.

Handbuilt cars, especially by the old pros (not me) I think would be fairly rare and expensive.

J

[don.siegel]

Hi Jairus, 

 

I was corrected by Philippe on this: they're unique, not rare. Pretty embarrassing having my English corrected by a Frenchman, but he's right. In fact, every time a seller listed a scratchbuilt car on ebay as rare, I would write and say, but they're rare by definition. And talking about one exchange like this, Philippe pointed out that they're unique, not rare. 

 

Anyway, for the Gilbert cars, since you had a small "production line", you could say that one is rare, but I think limited edition cars are excluded from the discussion as well, which seems logical to me. 

 

Still, that doesn't prevent your handbuilt cars, and others at the same level, of being extremely desireable. 

 

Don 

[Jairus]

Thank you Don!

[TSR]

Yes, Jairus, I had this argument with many collectors, and the word "rare" does not apply to objects that are unique by the fact that they are hand built. Effectively, even a full-size car such as a prototype, all too often labeled "rare" (generally by the seller or the auction house peddling it) is not rare, it is... unique. Now a unique object does not make it more or less desirable than a rare object of course, it all depends, just as for a rare object, of many factors, the main one being... condition.

As for our little game of slot cars, yes, only production cars apply, and please note that I have not listed any of the known (and as you will soon see in that book, previously unknown) factory prototypes and samples.  This is why none of the "pro racing" cars are listed either, since each is a unique object.

Don raised a point about "colors", especially regarding the Testor Honda. Normally, I would not list a rare color of an otherwise relatively common slot car in that listing, because it is still just a regular production car. The case of the Testor green Honda is special because this car received a different motor and a completely different decor from its "standard" version. The Honda also existed in the same box painted white with realistic decor, but the hyper rare green example has a different stock number, hence... my decision to stick it right up there in the list.

 

[Gill A]

Nobody has mentioned the Miyazawa Ferrari Brass slot Car made in Japan

and sold as Auto World cars in the USA.

Would that not be up there?

[don.siegel]

Yes, good point Gill. Not sure how many of these are floating around, but not a lot! Not even sure that Auto World sold these, as opposed to the Lotus, which was definitely in their catalogs. 

 

Miyazawa did another brass car too, a Bugatti T35, and only two of these known to exist according to PdL. He missed out on buying it from Oscar, so it's in somebody's hands, somewhere...  

 

Don 

[MattD]

While not easy to find, I don't think the brass Lotus is particularly rare.   I've had opportunities to buy that car 5-6 times.    I actually think there are probably a lot of them on shelves of Lotus fans, and f-! collectors.   Those guys just keep them as nice brass models.     Maybe not aware they are  slot cars.

 

[TSR]

 

Nobody has mentioned the Miyazawa Ferrari Brass slot Car made in Japan

and sold as Auto World cars in the USA.

Would that not be up there?

Hi Gill,
There is this saying about common objects, "they are a dime for the dozen".

While the Miyazawa Lotus is desirable to any serious collectors and does not change hands for a dime, there are literally hundreds of them out there, either built up from the kit or still in kit
form.  When I was managing the original Electric Dreams company after my first business retirement, I must have bought and sold about 50 of them. Once I got a single lot of 10 pristine kits, cost me 45 bucks a kit at the time (1990s).

Hence it would be way down on our listing I am afraid... 
 

[don.siegel]

Except that he's talking about the Ferrari P, not the Lotus... I made the same mistake at first and started replying like you, then I took a closer look at his post! 

 

Don't think there are a lot of Ferraris around... 

 

The saying is simply "a dime a dozen"... 

 

Don 

[MattD]

Like the hot rod guys say, "34 Fords are a dime a dozen".   Than I say," I'll take a dozen"!

 

 

[Gene/ZR1]

The rarest slot car is the one you will never see, and if you do, you can't afford it. 

[TSR]

Don,
I missed that too about the Miyazawa Ferrari comment,  but cannot put it in the listing because that model was never in production, only a few samples were hand assembled to show to potential distributors and they declined, so must be considered as never commercialized. I learned that from Oscar himself, and that also applies to the Bugatti.

Matt, Ford produced 563,921 cars in 1934, of which over 150000 were the V8 coupe and roadster. "A dime a dozen" applies in the sense of commonality, not desirability of course. 

So now, who can add rare actual production models to this list, and which can dethrone the Precision "Pacer" and especially the "Pacesetter" Lola T70, of which as this time, or the Unique Mako Shark, only one of each are known to exist?

1/ Precision "Series 2" (advertised as "Custom Slot Car Products) "Pacesetter Lola T70" and "Pacer Lotus 30" RTRs. At this time, only one each boxed examples, and one Lotus in Don Siegel's hands. Took over 20 years of research to at last, see a real one.

2/ Unique "Mako Shark RTR (only know example, while Don Siegel owns one of its equally scarce "black" chassis in his collection).
3/ Gar-Vic "Lunar" in boxed kit form (so far only one known example of a Gar-Vic kit)
4/ Classic "Stinger Roadster" kit (new, sealed in box, again, only one known to exist in intact form)
5/ Competition Hobbies BRP-Ford Indy car RTR (boxed or even loose, we have one, never ever seen another)
6/ (equally shared, as less than 3 examples of each are currently known):

Cyclonic "Tornado" Lola GT  RTR  (two known), Dugan Lola T70 & Lotus 30 RTRs (two known of each), International "Furious Fiat"  RTR (two known), Pactra "Meyers Manx" dune buggy RTR (two known, the second in body  form only), Pactra Matich SR3 RTR (two known), Calex Chaparral 2F kit (new in box, two known), Testor 1966 "Harrison-Ford" Indy car RTR (only one known in box, possibly three others...) Testor Honda F1 RTR in metallic green color (boxed or even loose, only one known...) 13/ Lindberg Porsche 906 kit
14/ Pactra Ford MkIV & BRP-Ford Indy car RTRs (now 4 known Fords, 2 BRPs...)
15/ K&B Ford MkII RTR in box (about 4 in their boxes and a few "loose" examples)
16/ Monogram McLaren Elva in kit form with painted vacuum formed body (new in box, only a handful known...)


 

[bradblohm]

How do we know it is genuine? Simple, Dyna-Rewind never marketed a "36D" separately... hence it cannot be a forgery.
I was told by "Bud" Stordhal, one of the two partners in the company, that about 1000 kits from various manufacturers were so modified: stock motor out, replaced by the rewind job.
 

 

Hey Philippe,

 

I have one of the rose can 36D Dyna-Rewinds in a Dyna-Rewind package (photo from 2006 thread is gone, but motor here somewhere), so they did market a 36D early on, but never seen or heard about another, except the ones in Bilet packaging.

 

Brad

 

P.S.  LOVE the Cox kit with Dyna-Rewind motor included!  Always dreamed about finding one here in Detroit, but...

[TSR]

Brad, can you shoot a picture of the motor in the box? Has it got a silver and blue sticker?

As far as I have been able to ascertain, the "Bilet" motors were LIKELY built by Stordahl and Lech, but it is still pure speculation on our part. And of course they do not have a Dyna sticker, so may have been made specifically for Bilet on a special order. Maybe only the armatures?

Here is the advert offering the kits and RTR at $0.99 over retail with the motor exchange program. It does mention the Cox Cheetah, but only the 1/32 scale version, so obviously they enlarged the selection shortly after this was printed.






 

[don.siegel]

It says, "shown here or in our free catalog", so they must have offered many more - and I think in another ad, they also said, choose whatever car you want for the same deal... Would love to see that photo of the 36D Dyna too, Brad. 

 

Are those the Billet motors that also offered a Pittman DC63 in their packaging? Never knew they offered Dyna-Rewinds... it was a Detroit address if I remember right. 

 

I think a Pactra BRP just passed through ebay... tried to get it, but I wasn't the only one who noticed. In used condition, but still... 

https://www.ebay.com...=p2047675.l2557

 

Speaking of production, did you ever determine if the Cyclonic cars entered production? They could have been protottypes as well... 

 

Don