89 replies to this topic

[Martin]

Thanks Bill for your insight.

 

I cleaned #1 a long time ago.

 

FYI #3 4 & 5 all have plumber side rails. 3 having the plumber hinge ahead of the front axle # 4 & 5 having its hinge behind the front axle.

 

Not sure if that info would change your dating speculations?

 

# 2 goes back for a build another day as there is no indication that it is or was an Open Wheel Angle Winder (OWAW) for short.

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[Bill from NH]

Generally speaking, plumber on the rails behind the front axle is older than plumber on the rails ahead of the front axle. Plumber on the drop arm is newer than in either rail position. I did not notice #3 was plumbered. I still think that's the oldest chassis here. With the spaced main rails, it could have been converted from a sports car chassis & the plumber added after the original build, Knowing #1 has been cleaned, I'll stick with my assumption of it being possibly the newest. I've never seen a Ferret/Phaze III anglewinder F1 chassis before. That could explain why #1 was custom built using "parts at hand" & #2 lost its pans.

 

 

3, 4, 5, (1 & 2 [who knows when?])

[Martin]

Bill, do we know when the Ferret motor mounts were sold?

[Bill from NH]

Ferret made  the brass parts for Phaze III & their own chassis. I don't think I ever bought a separate motor bracket, but I bought a Phaze III anglewinder chassis kit during the 1971-73 timeframe. This had 1/2" strip pans, narrow drop arm, motor bracket, pre-bent piano wire chassis rails, brass rods, & other bits  for a couple bucks. It also included a sketch on how to use the parts. I used the drop arm, but never built the chassis.  Brackets would have been available  about the same time. I got this kit at Modelville Hobby in Framingham, MA. The raceway bought all their parts from REHCO in Cincinnati, OH.. Hard telling how long REHCO had these parts on their shelves before raceways got them. I worked at the raceway the winter of 1973, so I think I got the kit before then. I only bought Parma brass chassis parts while I worked there.

[Isaac S.]

I'm in love with #4. It is great! 

[Martin]

I like/love that that one too Isaac.

I miss spoke on (post 26) the plumber hinged on that chassis #4 is behind the front axle. I edited the post 26 to reflect that.

I will make time to clean #4 and see what it looks like without the rust and crust.

[Martin]

Good eye Isaac.

Number 4 after 1hour of Martinizing. Cleaned up pretty good. Needs a bit of adjusting and a drop-arm down stop etc.

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[Bill from NH]

Nice job on the refurbishing work Martin! The first quick look I had of it, I thought it looked like a new build, from the bottom side.    Then I remembered the NM guy who uses Cobra drop arms to build open wheel cars & chassis & sells them on eBay at "Team Cobra" prices. This frame should build into a good looking car. It really does look good all cleaned up.

[Martin]

Thanks Bill, it's a vintage race car for sure, so not a piece of jewelry. But she does look better and I can work on it now,

 

I will need to address the fact that the side pans are out of time,right to left, and the right side hangs below the main chassis.

 

Not to mention the body mounts are pretty goofy, so I will fix those too. The right front is really weird

 

Do you remember if Champions and Mura's are timed CCW ?

[Pablo]

I've never seen a Mura or a Champion timed CW at the EB

[Rotorranch]

I've never seen a Mura or a Champion timed CW at the EB

 

Mura most definitely had CW and CCW arms. I've had both. Not sure, but I expect Champion did as well.

 

Rotor

[Bill from NH]

Mura  & Thorp both wound the same winds in both  CW & CCW. Thorp use to put a small phenolic plate between two stacks indicating which was which. I don't .know if Champion had any CCW arms. I never had one, but then I never had many Champion arms either. Champion never wound the volume of arms that Mura & Thorp did, Let me ask an OK friend about the Champions. He was a military brat who became a big Champion fan as his family moved from one southern base to another.

 

 

Pablo, my 1st Mura Grp. 20 arm is CW.   The first NCC20 chassis came with a loose motor mounting plate. Not knowing if you were going to use a CW or CCW arm, they let the end user put the plate on where it was needed.

[Pablo]

I stand corrected and bow to the masters 

[Pablo]

In those years I was at sea, fishing in Mexico. I had to make an excuse, so there it is. Every time I returned from my jobs, the slot car tracks were closed    Now COVID, and once again my "local track", 5 hours drive one way, is closed. I'm cursed.   

[Rotorranch]

Dude, I'm far from a master... I follow the Masters.

 

I just happened to be there then. 

 

Rotor

[Bill from NH]

Martin, here's what my OK friend had to say about Champion arms.. "The earliest of early 503’s and 507’s used CW timed Tradeship comms. Once they switched to Kirkwood comms, the arms were timed CCW from then on. To my knowledge no 26D or 36D arms were ever timed CW.,"

[Martin]

Thanks one and all for the input.

Bill, I have a 507s blue can, chrome label.  But seems like I should power them up and check for amp draw and sound.

Its is just my power source with the amp gauge works fine on cool winds but does not like the hotter motors.  My thinking is a mild motor would tame these anyway and make them more fun to drive.

 

Bill, I am not sure I have seen a 503???

[Bill from NH]

I agree you don't want to overpower these chassis. Keep the winds mild so they're drivable & still fun doing it. I would think arms in the 27-30 ga. range might work, but I don't own any. except for some flexi stuff. I've never seen a 503 or its specs. I wonder if its much more than a rewound arm with stock magnets & maybe the endbell too,.

 

Early Dyna Rewind & U-GO arms might be good arms to power the open wheel cars too, if either was still available.

[old & gray]

I agree you don't want to overpower these chassis. Keep the winds mild so they're drivable & still fun doing it. I would think arms in the 27-30 ga. range might work, but I don't own any. except for some flexi stuff. I've never seen a 503 or its specs. I wonder if its much more than a rewound arm with stock magnets & maybe the endbell too,.

 

Early Dyna Rewind & U-GO arms might be good arms to power the open wheel cars too, if either was still available.

 

I remember seeing a 503 back in the depth of time, it had a rewound arm with flat ground balancing and stock magnets.

 

A suggestion for an armature would be a super 16 (wound with 28 wire).

[Bill from NH]

Joel was the last I knew who did grind balancing. I would question if he still does.

 

A S16D arm might have a proper wind, but it would require a lot of stack grinding to fit in vintage cans.

[Martin]

Just a quick measurement and test fit seems to favor a 2 hole Mura can which measures 1.375" long and is CCW. EBD.

[Slot Car Rod]

Martin, looking through my Slot Car Junction photos, I came across this Ben Jones picture of an early style G P anglewinder car built by Rick Thigpen.

 

[Martin]

Good find Rodney, is that a 26D or a shortened 16D?    Looks a lot like the Sandy Gross car from 67, but with obvious differences.

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[Slot Car Rod]

Martin, I remember it being a shortened 16D (Rick's car).

[Isaac S.]

Look at the next page of that scan, then you will see the top side which clearly shows it as a shortened '68 Mabuchi.