98 replies to this topic

[Mark Onofri]

Bill, I like the Practical Prowlers to be able to do that with this semi intelligent phone. I'll see if Isaac can help me out on this one.

[Mark Onofri]

This phone really has a death wish. Even when I proof read it, it overrides it. Technical computer prowess.

[Champion 507]

The arm in post #17 has ALL the characteristics of one made by French:

 

1. They would ADD laminations to a stock Mabuchi arm to make it longer.

2. They used drill bits that were appx 1/8" dia.

3. They used red, yellow, blue, and maybe other color paint marks at ends of the stacks in conjunction with a strobe light to help them with their dynamic balancing.

 

"Usually" French arms rotated best in a CW direction but I don't know if that's true 100% of the time. They may have wound CCW arms too. Lenz' arms usually went CW also, but I'm not 100% sure on that one either. I have several Lenz motors and they are all CW.

 

Hope that helps

[Mark Onofri]

Thank you champ. It helped immensely. If it's any consolidation, I'm not sure about most things most of the time either. From previous other threads, I was hoping at the paint would be a clue as to the manufacturer. I'll check the diameter of the shaft and also, the length of the stack compared to others. Hopefully I'll remember what it is I'm doing😅

[Isaac S.]

Sorry to break the news, but ALL French arms were wound and manufactured by Mura. I've also had and seen plenty of Mura arms timed CW. It can't be a Lenz for at the time there balancing machine was different than Mura so the holes would be small deep holes. 

[old & gray]

 Lenz' arms usually went CW also, but I'm not 100% sure on that one either. I have several Lenz motors and they are all CW.

 

 

 

I ran several Lenz armatures after the anglewinder became the design of choice.

 

Since the frames now had to be either CW or CCW, the frame builders settled on CCW for the Mura and Cobra motors that were locally popular. Since I built my own frames (poorly), I used CW Lenz armatures which the local track was selling at discount prices.

[Mark Onofri]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. And probably again. Slot cars are not an exact science like brain surgery.

[Mark Onofri]

I'm sure that if I sent the picture to the right person it will follow shortly. In the meantime here's dimensions.L57/64 W31/64 H43/64. Note:L= just the can. Weird huh? Or maybe I just never saw 1 like this before.

[Isaac S.]

It's the one in the middle, between a Revell 16D and a C-can. 

 

[Bill from NH]

, I used CW Lenz armatures which the local track was selling at discount prices.

 

Bob, with these Lenz arms did you use can drive motors, or endbell drive motors?

 

I usually remember left side gears on anglewinders for can drive motors, right side gears for endbell drive motors. I know there are some exceptions, but CW arms were never as popular as CCW,

 

 

Mark's motor in the middle looks like a B-can to me. Compare its height to a C-can & its width & length to a 16D.

[old & gray]

 

Bob, with these Lenz arms did you use can drive motors, or endbell drive motors?

 

I usually remember left side gears on anglewinders for can drive motors, right side gears for endbell drive motors. I know there are some exceptions, but CW arms were never as popular as CCW,

 

 

In 1970 I used a can drive CW (Either 27-28 or 25) it was geared off the right side. While it might have been possible to refit a CCW endbell drive chassis the changes (motor angle, plumber, drop arm, axle diameter) the reality was it would be a complete rebuild or 'yesterday's tech'. 

[Isaac S.]

Here is what I think of Mark's motor. I think it is a Mura Short Magnum. These used cans that were shortened D-cans. The endbell is a Mura unmeltable which is 16D sized. It is not a B-can as the endbell would not fit and neither would the C-can. This is the only thing that makes sense. 

[Mark Onofri]

Isaac check the Dimensions I posted previously. It's shorter than a C-can,Better yet, I'll give it to you in decimals of an inch. D=.6480 ?=.6675 C =.6250 that is the height. Unless you have a small enough Hammer 2 pound that end Bell in, it isn't going to fit. Maybe it's a Monday motor.

[Mark Onofri]

Okay here's a disclaimer. This phone doesn't have the approximately equal to symbol. The D-can,revell. C-can, Mura

[Mark Onofri]

One more disclaimer. If you look at the Times these are posted, you might think that I've gone over the rainbow, or have absolutely no life whatsoever to be posting at 1:45 a.m. whether or not I've gone over the rainbow is subject to speculation ,they did however take my marbles away. It is 8:45 p.m. where I am.( yes, Over the Rainbow)😁

[Isaac S.]

Okay, I just don't understand how the Mura EB wound have fit, it must have been shortened also. But if what you say is correct this is not any production motor I know of because a B-can would also be the same length as a 16D. 

[Mark Onofri]

Isaac I only posted the Heights in decimals of an inch. I'll send you a better picture with better demensions.

[Mark Onofri]

Anyone out there know the dimensions of a B-can ? ( it's a suttle hint BillNH)

[Bill from NH]

I don't have a Short Magnum can to measure, but if the motor in the middle of the above photo is one, it's a supposedly .890" long can with the same height & width dimensions as a regular Mura "A" can. Hard to find today, Mura made these motors with Hemi magnets for 1/32 side winders. 

 

Mark, there were a dozen or more variations  of the B-can sold. They had the width & length of an A-can. The height varied depending upon a can's thickness & whether or not it was factory milled. I've seen three different heights, but there may be more. Want a generality for height? About the same as that for C-cans. The B-can had to one of Mura's biggest disappointments.

[Mark Onofri]

I knew that you would have some insight on this Bill N H. Yeah I had a feeling it was some strange mutation of a B-can. One more for the shelf of motors.

[Mark Onofri]

I would imagine that there were as many colours as variations of this dog of a motor. Any ideas on what were common Colours ? This one is either a very stodgy light gray or, just oxidized metal.

[Isaac S.]

It isn't a B-can. It's impossible. I still say it's a shortened D-can. It's the same height as a 16D (measured it and compared it to yours). 

 

B-can- shorter height than a 16D, but same length and width

 

C-can-shorter height and length. 

[Mark Onofri]

.0315 shorter in height Isaac. Sound small in numbers but when you look at it it's significant. And it's significantly wider than a d can

[Bill from NH]

Mark, can you photograph the magnets, if they'll come out?  Show us a photo of the can's endplate. Has it been modified or shortened? Maybe it's a shortened D-can that has been milled top & bottom 015. If you remove the endbell, you should be able to look at the can's thickness to determine/measure if the top & bottom are thinner than the can sides.

 

What 16D can are you comparing the middle motor to? The can on the left looks like a 1-piece formed can, while the mystery motor looks like a folded can. Folded & formed cans are never the same exact size. Your ..031 height difference might be just from a larger formed can.  Photos don't always show the details.

 

If you're going to be comparing 16D motors in the future, you should get a clean, relatively new  motor such as a Parma, Proslot, or Slotworks 16D or S16D to use as your "compare to" motor. These motors will have folded cans & will provide a more accurate comparison than comparing one old motor to another without really knowing if either has had any user modifications.

 

FYI Formed cans have no seams in the can sides. Folded cans have a seam on each side. Motor builders have been known to solder the seam, sand them smooth, & then repaint the can so the seams don't show from the outside. 

[Mark Onofri]

I just typed a very detailed reply to your question bill. And it has vanished Without a Trace. Thank you for clarifying the difference between a folded welded can, and a drawn can for those who do not know. Is little late to disembowel this motor tonight. I have spoken Isaac and he will post some pictures for me I would imagine after he receives them tomorrow. There must be some sort of time zone difference between when I write these and the time it shows them posted. Maybe it's just me but , I think it would be a little strange to make posts it 4 a.m. so just for the record it's 11:47 p.m.