98 replies to this topic

[Isaac S.]

Comapring a 1964 designed Revell SP500 to a 1969 Mura D-can is not very useful. I just measured the height of one of my D-cans and it was .673. Pretty close. But, variation in 16D's throughout teh years is endless. I just measured a '68 Mabuchi can and it was .64 tall, not very similar in dimensions but still a 16D. Hope this helps. 

[Bill from NH]

When you're comparing an unknown to something, it's useful to have a known to compare it to, regardless of a vintage difference. Can motors have never been exact, even two identical looking looking ones.. 

[Mark Onofri]

This one isn't even close to a D or C can. It has not been modified, and if it has been they were Pros. It has been a long day. I will address this tomorrow and give you more specific dimensions and, better photos. But thank you so much for your help on this thus far.

[Bill from NH]

Mark, does that motor run? What sort of motor brushes are in it? 16D or 36D? What holds the endbell to the can? I'm questioning if it's worth rebuilding or not. My guess is that arm is the only arm that fits in that can unless you have one custom made. I have two weird motors of my own but they don't look like yours. I don't know where I got them, but they're more like a 26D, which they aren't. The cans are identical, but one has a stock arm, the other has been rewound & balanced.

[Mark Onofri]

Bill, I took your advice and compared it to a older new motor. It seems to be some version of what Champion sold in there RTRs. The only differences in the length of the stack on the armatures. Once again in the photo you'll see that the stock 16d on the left, 12 C on the right, mystery motor in the middle.

[Bill from NH]

Mark, to me it looks like a Mura motor can. Not knowing how old it may be, it might be a Short Magnum that Champion bought from Mura for use in something. Champion never made their own motors after the black C-Cans of the 70's. For awhile. Mura made a special C-can for Champion & later, Champion bought arms & motors from Proslot.to sell under the Champion label. Back to your motor, I don't know much about Champion's 1/32 scale cars other than the vintage coupes & sedans on their Thumper (womp) chassis. These Thumper cars came with Parma 16D motors, so I have no idea what they would have used a short stack motor like yours for. From what I've read, the Mura Short Magnum was not powerful enough for use in 1/24 scale cars. I'm assuming yours wouldn't be much different. Do you know if Champion ever sold a 1/32 anglewinder chassis? I don't know.

 

When I enlarged the motor photo, I see what appears to be a pintab on the backside by the solder blob on the top. If that is a pintab, your motor is definitely a Mura, because Champion never used those horrid things. Is that motor's endbell held to the can by pintaps?

[Mark Onofri]

Yes it has those silly fluted rivets ,AKA pin tabs. Yes, the end bell is embossed with the name murra. The shiny Chrome can was what came in 1/24th RTR Champion cars right into the 90s, as supplied by reh. This I know for a fact. They also came in Parma 1/32 RTR,s. This I also know for a fact, the first running slot car I bought was a Parma 512 Ferrari. Strange Armature isn't it? Hopefully Isaac will post the photo that will clarify everything. I'm coming to the conclusion that the motor that I have is pre 1980, post 1970 mura.

[Bill from NH]

Motors coming from REHCO could be NOS from any year. You can still buy NOS 36Ds  from them if you want. I have a couple K&Bs.  They have a combination of new merchandise & that which came from other companies when they were bought out (aged freight).As of 2 or 3 yrs. ago REH had some of the plated Champion chassis too. At one time, I was given a copy of REHCO's inventory sheets that trackowners used for ordering. Another trackowner used to get me vintage parts off those lists when he visited REHCO. Those days are gone now.

[Mark Onofri]

20 years ago when I had a commercial track I did a lot of business with reh. In retrospect I wish I would have done more. The only reason I made that comment about the motor I have is, miniature grand prix of Westvale was the only game in town during that era. Still have most of their catalog from that time. I don't know if it'd be appropriate post under another thread or not?

[Mark Onofri]

It's not 2:02 a.m. it is 9:02 p.m.

[Mark Onofri]

A little off the subject but, last time I talked to her(the owner), maybe two years ago, all the nod parts are shoved in some Back warehouse, and she really didn't feel like going back there to fill the order. Maybe she was having a bad hair day or something . Such is life.

[Mark Onofri]

NOS not nod

[Isaac S.]

Here we go. 

[Isaac S.]

Also, Mark try changing your time zone in settings. 

[Mark Onofri]

Hmmmmm, is that like advancing the timing?😁 Thank you for posting the picture Isaac. Are the stack length variations clear enough? The first being a 16 d , the center one evidently is also a 16d, and the final one is a 12c. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Mark Onofri]

I stand corrected top, Center, bottom. The photo must have gone through that time warp.

[Bill from NH]

From the tail spacer to comm end, that length of the middle arm is less than the other two. That was expected for a short can. The comm on the middle has a deep groove that you might not be able to turned out. Your chances of finding a replacement arm, if one is needed, are slim at best. You could have a custom one made.  At  this point, I think Isaac was correct when he said the motor was a Short Magnum. It may be rebuildable, but I would question if the arm can be saved. Does that endbell fit 16D or 36D motor brushes? I do not think it's the correct endbell for a Mura Short Magnum motor. The brush hood style is newer.

[Mark Onofri]

The first thing I did when we raced the Chrome version, was dumped those antiquated hexagon brush holders. Took them a while to figure that one out. Yeah I noticed the com when I pulled it apart. I think it's beyond repair .I really don't know if it's worth changing it. As far as the other motor that's the end Bell and Hardware that came with it.

[Mark Onofri]

Any idea of what year those short Magnums were available? I don't remember them but, I don't remember my keys are half the time either.

[Isaac S.]

The Short Magnums would have been available in 1969. If you want to build a correct motor, I do have a short magnum armature. You would have to find the right magnets though. 

[Mark Onofri]

Thank you Isaac, appreciate the offer. Far as I know the magnets that are in it are the magnets that have been in it. So it is conclusive that it is a short magnum thus explaining the difference in the length of the stacks?

[Mark Onofri]

8:11 pm I actually navigated the internet superhighway without getting splattered by a semi tractor trailer. I have found what species of motor this is(was). I'm sure a photo is forthcoming. And also I don't know how I did this either, I brought this thread in a complete circle.

[Isaac S.]

Here is Marks photo of his motor's "species". LOL

 

 

I think this is just an early 70's C-can, but Mark disagrees. What do you guys think?

[Bill from NH]

What else does Mark think it is?  $5.98 bought you a stock motor 50 yrs. ago. Someone gave me one of those because it wasn't competitive with the Grp. 15 B-cans we ran in weekly races. I figured it was a free can & endbell I could throw good magnets into & have another open class setup. Is Mark pulling these old motors from a stash he saved from the days when he had a raceway?

[Mark Onofri]

Noooooo, that was a photo I thought you'd find it amusing BillNH. Kind of wanted to bring it around in a full circle back to the topic that was Cobra Motors. However, Isaac and I disagree on whether or not that is a C or D can. P s. I didn't pull that from a stash. I was using for a paperweight. Seemed appropriate.