173 replies to this topic

[Martin]

This would be clean too. Slots could be put in wing and body if you dare?

 

[Rotorranch]

 

 

One thing in common I see on lots of (1/1) wings of that era is, 1)  almost all of them have a single pair of attachment uprights, and 2)  almost all are basically placed dead center above the wheels    

 

 

Paul, the reason the wing struts are directly at the rear wheels is because the struts were mounted directly to the rear suspension. 

 

The downforce was transferred directly to the rear tires, and not the chassis/body.

 

The tall wings were banned after a few wing failures resulted in major crashes.

,

Rotor

[Pablo]

Ahhhh, that gives me excellent food(s) for thought Thanks gentlemen, you really got me thinking 

 

Rotor, I know exactly what you mean, I'm aware of the 1/1 history of wings failing, then the car loses control at high speed. People lost their lives over this. Good thing with slot cars, nobody gets hurt. But the physics are the same - one rollover, if the wing fails, it's painful.

 

I may take another day to absorb all this. If the owner chooses to take 2 laps then shelf queen the car, that's his business. My business is making a replica race car that can be driven without fear of ruining it with one rollover 

 

This is my racing buddy John Clow with his "made in Germany" VW. These babies got 50 mpg back in the day. Can anybody explain the aero? In Mexico they call them "Tortugitas" (little turtles). Johnny VW, are you out there? LOL

 

 

Just to keep up the interest, how 'bout these aeros? No wind tunnel needed, she passes the test

 

 

 

 

[MattD]

Jeff, I think you meant the wing struts were mounted directly to the rear axle housings. I think I got this info from one of the Chaparral books. It was quickly learned that the down force of a wing would pre-load the suspension and affect handling. The down force had to bypass the bodywork and suspension and go directly to the rear wheels. I could have misunderstood your post.

 

Mounting a wing in a vac body. We learned from the BZ Chaparral what a poor design is. For a slot car the stock Lancer wing mounting is fine. If the struts are connected to the body and not the chassis, the body can be removed with no issues. 

[Pablo]

I will be using the cardboard test wing mounted with test parts and show it to you all for your critique before I finalize it. I appreciate all the smart input, thanks 

[Pablo]

Question, why does a car like this need a huge open cockpit big enough for two drivers, when there is only one driver? That giant cockpit hole does nothing but catch huge gulps of air and a double passenger interior just adds high up weight. Just curious 

[Bill from NH]

I believe the early sports cars were two-seaters, or had the appearance of having a 2nd seat. Some of the early sports car rules specified carrying a rim-mounted spare tire too. 

[old & gray]

Question, why does a car like this need a huge open cockpit big enough for two drivers, when there is only one driver? That giant cockpit hole does nothing but catch huge gulps of air and a double passenger interior just adds high up weight. Just curious 

 

Because no one ever built a one passenger sports car, and these were suppose to be road going cars. (Remember the Ford GT 40s at Lemans had to have luggage space which was checked at tech inspection.)

[Rotorranch]

Question, why does a car like this need a huge open cockpit big enough for two drivers, when there is only one driver? That giant cockpit hole does nothing but catch huge gulps of air and a double passenger interior just adds high up weight. Just curious 

 

 

Rules... Don't ya hate em?

 

Rotor

[dc-65x]

Hi Pablo,
 
With everyone giving you their "2 cents" worth you'll be a millionaire soon.  
 
So here is my contribution to your future estate:
 
If you want to mount your wing directly to the rear axle (the way Mike Morrissey did on many occasions) here is a simple way:
 

..............Speaking of sheet styrene, that white thing above is the Mirage's wing:
 

 
I sanded the pee out of it to do my best to shape it like a wing:
 

 
The wing strut mount is made up from .030" piano wire:
 

 
The strut gets mounted into pin tubes on the chassis:
 

 
OK, I think I've run out of things to do besides paint..............    

Just a little kink in the wire wing mount and it fits snug in its tube which is soldered to the rear axle. It's easily removed whenever necessary

Done.

[MattD]

Really nice work Rick.

[Pablo]

Bingo, that's the ticket, thanks Capt. Rick and Mike Morrissey 

[Pablo]

I'm going to order .080 styrene sheet. My next question is, an aircraft wing is designed to lift. So, why do I see lots of 1/1 Can Am race cars with aircraft-looking wings? Specifically, the upper length of the top of the wing is bulged up so it's longer than the lower surface. I thought the idea for cars was downforce, not lift? Pappy, are you out there?

 

Meantime, I'll build a Morrissey tube and wire gizmo 

[dc-65x]

 

Unlike the wing shape above the shape of my wing is pretty much symmetrical. It's the best I could do before I got totally burned out sanding a piece of plastic.  

[Pablo]

Understood. So my thinking is correct - it is a reverse wing. If I shape it right, it may not need 30 degrees of tilt. I guess by the shape I make the wing and the tilt I use will determine the amount of downforce. Too much will cause too much grip (tilt). Less will promote more drift.

 

I prefer more drift over tilt any day in a car like this. So I'll take that all into consideration. I plan to order a sheet of .060 as well as .080 so I can select. Choices are good 

[Martin]

Just remember air doesn't scale, so has little down force at this size. So the weight up high has more of a negative effect on handling. Keep it supper light would be my suggestion.

 

Any down force you do get will be transferred via the body. Slot cars don't have suspension. 1/1 race cars mounted the high down force wings to the uprights/wheels so it did not bottom the suspension. 

 

Look forward to seeing the results.

[SpeedyNH]

i did Not like the aero on VW beetles.

on my buddy's and my '66's (with some bolt-on engine mods), we had to fill the trunks with firewood to keep the nose down so that the cars didn't push over 2-3 lanes in the corners going down through Providence at 70 on the Interstate.  

[Pablo]

Martin, interesting observation on the physics of air, I like it. I guess the only way to really know is wind tunnel or lap time testing, using the correct scale. If I only had a King track in my apartment ...... 

 

My basic plan has been decided, see post #110. Aero force will be straight to the Russkit motor bracket, not via the body to the body mount pin tubes. My architecture may be slightly different to allow for the fact my chassis is a different design than Rick's Mirage. But the idea is the same  

 

For my wing shape, I can't guarantee anything yet. Other than my goal would be shaping the styrene sheet like post #114. That's going to be a challenge. If it gives me fits, I may just bevel the edges. The size will remain unchanged from my cardboard template, 7/8 x 2 1/4". The Sharpie marks are my plan for .032 plated Swiss wire supports

 

 

Speedy, your V Dub aero was fine for a tame air cooled cheap slow motor. You "ruined" it by overpowering it 

[Tex]

I believe Martin is right on that point about air and downforce on a slot car wing; I read a dissertation on that subject some time back here on SB, given by PdL. Basically, such wings on slot cars are less effective than deflection caused by a typical rear spoiler. BUT.... such wings look really cool! If the car isn't going to used for outright competition, keep the high wing!

[MattD]

That car is not going to be raced  in competition.    It's more af an exercise in building a 60's replica.

[Pablo]

How can you known that it won't be raced? I built and raced this car and it won

 

http://slotblog.net/...ix-entry/page-1

 

Every car I build is made to run. If the owner shelves it that's his business 

[SpeedyNH]

way back, i got to play with race cars in a wind tunnel and run a smoke wand around.  i learned a Lot. 

then about 20 years ago when i was running a high-end 'scale' series, i got the idea to hold slotcar bodies under a kitchen water faucet to get an idea of how they differed in flow. it worked pretty slick.  the only car i tried it with that had a separate wing were sprint cars, though, so i could adjust the wings (held on by Lexan uprights like the above, with double-sticky tape.)  a wide Can-Am body would be interesting to see. 

(now i'm giving away my secrets! Lol) 

 

part of the fun of this hobby for me is that certain important things don't scale. i did some testing once by holding a car out the window of a moving car (with and without being on a big test block, with a small level), and the D just started getting usable around 30mph.  (and yeah, i did lose grip and dropped a eurosport car at 60. that made a mess. and ended testing.)

[Isaac S.]

Yeah, I would actually say that most people who collect these "pro-type" cars run them. Some probably not as hard, but why have Pablo build you a fast, 60's speed machine if you are not going to run it? Driving them is the best part in my opinion anyway. 

[Pablo]

There surely must be satisfaction in owning something you know performs well, otherwise I'd be knitting sweaters for a hobby. People buy expensive exotic sports cars all the time and you don't see them driving it to Walmart. 

[Pablo]

Before COVID when I had a monthly opportunity to test my custom cars on a full sized wood track, all it took was a few laps to ensure it was right, or if it needed tuning and/or changes. That's all it takes to ensure the car handles well, is fun to drive with no bad habits, motor is fast with good brakes and runs cool, flag spacing and braid wear correct, scum buildup check, etc. Then I'd hand it off to an expert driver like Red or John Clow or even ISRA Champion Greg Gilbert and let them run it a few laps as a witness. 

 

Recently I sent a car to Chicagoland to be tested by G7 multi-time World Champion Mike Swiss. So once it leaves The Wolcott Ranch I know it performs. I've tested so many of my cars by now, I pretty much know they are as right as can be. If the owner wants changes, I can and will make them at my own expense.

 

Out of what, 7 pages of builds, not one single car has come back for correction in any way. So what if they sit on a shelf? I know a guy in Thomasville, GA who has a Cobra in his garage. You just know it hauls ass and is perfect in every way. The owner doesn't need to prove it.

 

You don't need to take your pet rattlesnake out of it's reptile cage and let your friends play with it to know they bite