138 replies to this topic

[dc-65x]

Too much fun, here.

That's great! I'm having fun building this car too .

You know, that roller can be made by anyone that wants to. Electric dreams has the NOS Russkit bracket and repop wheels. EJ's Hobbies has Revell tires for the front. Your raceway can get you a REHco - Cox crown gear, standart pinion, axles and Slick 7 skinny lead wire. For a guide get a Parma "The Blade" and in 10 minutes you can make it look a lot the Cox guide also used in the R&C series. Cox on the left, the Blade on the right and modfied Blade in the middle (thanks to Steve Okeefe for this trick):



The Blade can even be mounted with a screw and washer. The lead wire can be installed without guide clips:



For a motor you can use a "mouse motor" if you must. But you might want to more closely experience to the way these cars really handled. You might try the absolute slowest modern 16d available. Rebuilding a vintage Mabuchi 16d from Ebay could prove quite entertaing for a tinkerer too. ED also have brushes and springs for the Mabuchi.

Anyway, here's what's next for me:



I'm using mostly NOS stuff but Noose, Tom Anderson and Pattos Place have repop bodies and drivers. BWA has repop Russkit wheel inserts.

I switched from the repop wheel inserts shown to chrome NOS Russkit. The mirrors are also Russkit. The paint brushes will become exhaust "trumpets" and the roll bar is 1/16" aluminum rod bent around a piece of 1/4" brass tube. I still have to make the velocity stacks from 1/8" aluminum tube.

Time to trim and mount the body.........

[Dooner]

Rick,
I am totally enjoying your build. As always a meticulous and clean "sano" job.

[dc-65x]

Thanks Tom. Check this out. Talk about sano. I'm going to buy a pile of these paint brushes for exhaust trumpets:



I just yanked out the bristles, cut it off with a Dremel and cleaned up the end. They are nice and light aluminum and have high polished chrome like finish.

[dc-65x]

The body is trimmed and mounted. The body was really warped and made it sit at an angle on the chassis. Out of frustration I took the heat gun to it ...........now it fits and won't put a bind in the chassis. The bottom edge on one side got a little wavy though :



The chrome wheel inserts have a black wash applied to give them some depth:





I just need to drill the holes for all the do dads like these.............



..........and it will time for paint my least favorite part of the build.

Onward

[Jairus]

Oh, don't be a baby. You do some beautiful paint work Rick!

[Noose]

Yeah..you tell him

[Tex]

I've looked for a small tubing flaring tool... unsuccessfully. I bet you have access to some fancy-schmancy machine shop tools, eh? More power to ya; I'm just jealous. Looks great so far!

[havlicek]

I've looked for a small tubing flaring tool... unsuccessfully. I bet you have access to some fancy-schmancy machine shop tools, eh?

Tex...you gotta make do with what you got. Hmmm lemme see...you need a device with a pointed end that can be driven into the end of some soft aluminum tubing in a controlled way to flare it...sounds like a pinion-puller I just tried it on a piece of K&S aluminum tubing and it works perfectly. The only bit of hassle was that the split on the bottom of the puller for sliding onto the motor shaft needs to be plugged so the tubing has something to rest on. Just to try it, I slid an allen wrench in there and it was very easy to flare the tubing. You could make a separate frame in the shape of a square instead of the round "C" shape of the puller body, drill and tap it so that when you want to make some velocity stacks you just screw the puller into it...or you could just waste a puller and solder a piece of steel across the bottom. You could also grind the end of a knurled screw or thumb screw to a "pencil point" cone and thread that into your new flaring tool. Anyway, this one was easy, I wish they were all like that

-john

[dc-65x]

WAH!

Hey Jairus and Noose . I'll get her painted, it just doesn't come easily for me as it does for real artists like you guys. I like this kind of stuff better :



Tex and John,

After cleaning up the end of the tube I put a drop of oil on the end of a center punch and push it into the tube while it slowly spins in a hand drill. The size of the flare is measured with calipers to keep them all the same. These are .125 tube flared to .142 to .144. After it's flared I do a little light sanding with 1200 grit paper and a final polish with metal polish. It's easy but kind of tedious. It took 1/2 hour to 45 minutes to do 8. I think the old school look is worth it.........and it was a good stalling tactic before I have to start painting .

[Hworth08]

I'm being way too picky but .125 tubes on a 3 liter motor? That scales out to a 3 inch tube, way too big. Philippe might know but the actual tubes were probably an inch and a half or so. Different sized tubes ( inside diameter) would have been used to tune the torque and RPM bands but with only 20 cubic inchs per cylinder the tubes would be pretty small.

[havlicek]

...I dunno Don, if that's significant then maybe these things oughtta have reeeeeeeaaaallly tiny internal combustion engines, fully independant suspensions and a cup-holder. Anyway, Rick's demonstration for how he does the flares is a great example of looking at how to do something with the tools you have on hand. If you regularly did these things, I think the gear-puller might be faster and more controlled as you could also install a stop nut so that, as long as the stacks were precut to the same length, you would get repeatable results.

-john

[dc-65x]

Hi Don,

It's a visual impact thing. My hat is off to all the SCALE modelers out there who can create exact models of real cars. I like the way .125 looks on some cars..........



....and 3/32 velocity stacks on others:



Whateve you like

[Hworth08]

, fully independant suspensions and a cup-holder.

John,

Naw, they don't need a cup-holder. During cautions just turn the mirror straight up and use that for a cup holder!

Hey, I said I was being too picky! Maybe a 3 inch stack looks best behind a Cox driver. Course a Cox driver was sized so he could have been a defensive tackle for the Chicago Bears.

[havlicek]

Gotcha Don!, hey maybe the Cox drivers were on HGH

-john

[Tex]

I'll have to think about the gear puller trick, John, especially since my gear puller broke recently! I have a center punch but my mind's eye(I'm at work right now) thinks the one I have is a bit too small; I'll need to get a slightly larger center punch. Good tips; thanks, guys.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

For modern work alike motors:

Parma homeset motors have magnets the equivilent of period Arcos in a 16d, about 450 gauss on my meter, but the wind is a 140/34 wind. This is about the stock Russkit 22 wind on a much different stack, and the russkit magnets were halt the strength.

The next set, the basic "Deathstar" 501 parma motor is pretty much identical to our early 66 rewinds, a 30s wind with magnets a bit stronger than Hemi, and much like early arcos. or much like a 507 champion or Mura X88

the next step, the super 16d is like a hoter wind with similar magnets, a sort of 517 Champion with a 28 wind. Matching the period rewinds would be a group 20 arm which is a 27 wind.

I use the deathstar in my surviving 66 era cars rather than do all the work to maintain the period surviving motors I have. And I use the super16 fpr the "D3" era stuff.

Fate

[Champion 507]

Hi,

I don't have a gauss meter...wish I could afford one. I know all magnets vary but, typically, what would the gauss readings be for the following:
1. Mabuchi 16D ex: Russkit 23, Revell SP80
2. 1968 Mabuchi 16D ex: Champion 5001 "Thumper"
3. Parma 16D from 1980's with either white or pink endbell that has brass brush hoods. One magnet was painted white on the end and the other magnet was painted red on the end.
4. Current Parma 16D.

Any ideas on what the readings would have been for Champion 507 "broken" magnets and the early 517"s in the chrome cans?


Thank you very much.

[flarimer]

...I'm so loving this build up. I can scarcely wait to see the final product!

Dang I'm liking this whole scene. PdL, doesn't this just make you go all warm and fuzzy. But wait, there's more....

Hey, any of you folks going to this year's Monterey Historics? Let me know. I'll be there, chasin down some cars for a future project...

[TSR]

PdL, doesn't this just make you go all warm and fuzzy.

Yes it does...

Hey, any of you folks going to this year's Monterey Historics?

I will be with the Stand 21 folks, in the big marquee next to the Rolex display. Come visit on Saturday because on Sunday I am a guest at the Pebble Beach filthy rich-folks display of automotive wealth.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

Doug, not only do magnets vary, but meters do not always read like other meters. MY meter gives these numbers, others may vary. As a compairosn, modern 1/32 button handling neos are ca 1000, thin bar handling neos ca 1500


Hi,

I don't have a gauss meter...wish I could afford one. I know all magnets vary but, typically, what would the gauss readings be for the following:
1. Mabuchi 16D ex: Russkit 23, Revell SP80

First gen(russkit 22, sp510) ca 250. second gen, 23s and SP80s ca 275 really small numbers. Hemis were a marvel in the day reading 350.

2. 1968 Mabuchi 16D ex: Champion 5001 "Thumper"

I have not measured mine, but guessing on mine, I only have 2, would be in the 350 range.

3. Parma 16D from 1980's with either white or pink endbell that has brass brush hoods. One magnet was painted white on the end and the other magnet was painted red on the end.

Usually ca 400

4. Current Parma 16D.

In recnet times they have produced a variety of thin and thick magnets usually between 400 and 500

Any ideas on what the readings would have been for Champion 507 "broken" magnets and the early 517"s in the chrome cans?

Broken were ca 350/400, the 517s ca 450. All the other blue dot, white dot, etc varied a gread deal between 450 and 6000

Fate

[Champion 507]

Thanks for the info, Rocky.

I guess you could say I'm a few tools short of a complete motor shop!

[Hworth08]

Doug,

Guass readings are useful to find a starting point for a total magnet field. Modern magnets are SO much more effective as far as lap times.

The better racers will test several different setups to find their favorites. The good racers usually pay more attention to a pair of magnets braking strength than guass readings. True the brakes are the result of the can, gears, brush springs, air gap, arm timing, and body but the serious racers can adjust for these factors. The braking strength of the magnets will also reveal the torque of the motor. Most racers want a nice, smooth power band that is less likely to lift the guide when they punch the controller.

THe early racers offset the harshness of the Arco 33 magnets by winding the arms hotter and hotter to kill the torque. They also added weight, partly to overcome the glue, and to even out the motors harshness.

A typical 517 powered car, setup as it would have been in the late '60s, needs about three times the braking distance of a modern Flexi with a Deathstar motor.

[dc-65x]

Thanks to everyone for their input

Here is a list of the after zapping average strength of the magnets I have. The zapping and gaging was done with industrial equipment by an industry professional. This is, however, a very small sample (a couple of pair) for most of the magnet types. For Blue Dots, Super B and Versitec magnets the sampling is much larger:

550-600!! Arco (broken type)
500-570 Arco 33
535-570 Arco DZ
600-690 Arco Blue Dots
610-630 Arco White Dots
610-660 Versitec
570-620!! Mura Magnum 44
670-770 Mura Super B
680 Parma EXP current year production
580 Parma Super 16D year 2000 production

I've been told the following magnets are of the "anisotropic" type. Basically, as it was explained to me, this method of magnet manufacture does no lend itself to zapping. Trying to remagentize this type of magnet could actually weaken it:

410 French-Tradeship 16D BEFORE ZAPPING
200 French-Tradeship 16D AFTER ZAPPING
580 late Strombecker Hemi 16D
280-360 Cobra 16D
600-615 '68 Mabuchi 16D (oval hole can)

Disclaimer :

Again, this list is from a small sample for most of the magnet types. It is presented for interest only and is not meant to be an ultimate statement of fact.

[Hworth08]

Rick,

That's a nice list and what I would expect!

The "anisotropic" type (whatever that means ) backs up Monty's finding of the early Mabuchi magnets sometimes losing guass when zapped.

Monty also mentioned cog, or the "clicking" feel when you rotate the arm by hand from one pole to another. The post is 5 or 6 years old somewhere on OWH and I've forgotten most of it but the amount of cog often relates to the "harshness" of motor.

[Prof. Fate]

Hi

Don, having period cars and motors and modern flexis and motors, I am not sure I have seen breaking distance thing you did.

In general, I have my last 68 inline before anglewinders which, in the day, ran an A can with a 28 in it and arcos, and it turns the same heats as my flexi/super16d(slotworks spyder). At the time, a bunch of us old guys who had raced each other in the 60s were racing flexis, and chose to meet on open days to run our old cars with each other. It turned into a CLASS that we were pretty active until the program closed.

Which is how, in the long run, I got to the "work alike" stuff in my cars. WE were running out oldies and looking for modern stuff that didn't require our limitd stores of old suppies to keep running.

Thus, our 66 work alikes being the death star or short stack version Parma used to make (don't remember the name right now), and the 68 work alike being a super.

Fate