243 replies to this topic

[dc-65x]

I'm interested to hear what you find out, Sir Duffster... I mean "Blue Eyes" Tourcault. You've got me on that one! No speaka da French.

[Horsepower]

Whereever there is ferrous material and water, there can be rust.

I hope I'm wrong, but the 25% antifreeze solution doesn't seem to be concentrated enough to do the job.

[dc-65x]

This keeps getting stranger and stranger. Hey Pablo, I'm thinking I should move to Mississippi near you so I won't have these troubles! My father's is from Picayune .

Anywho, six hours in the tumbler and the brass looks just the way it did when I threw it in. The steel is pretty nicely polished. And, the entire chassis has a gloss coating over it. It looks like Noose or Jairus airbrushed a nice super thin clear coat over the entire chassis .

Maybe that's what antifreeze does inside the cooling system of a car to protect it? This coating didn't wash of with scrub brush and dish soap... tough stuff. Acetone would take it off however. This stuff might make a good preservative finish for a chassis?

But, the brass she's a no shine .

So, I added three good shakes of Bon Ami Polishing Cleanser to the mix. A tumbling away again it is...

[Phil Irvin]

I'm interested to hear what you find out Sir Duffster... I mean "Blue Eyes" Tourcault. You've got me on that one! No speaka da French

MEE, TOOO... MEEE, TOOO... I have had the piano wire come out with pits on it ...

Me a mechanic... ANTIFREEZE... damn... simple... whodathunkit...

OLPHRT
PHIL I.

... A 10% or less solution is all that you should need.

Edited by cheater, 14 September 2010 - 08:33 AM.

[Duffy]

... I mean "Blue Eyes" Tourcault. You've got me on that one! No speaka da French

Just say it aloud, over and over 'til it sounds like something. With cowbell accompaniment.

[68Caddy]

You guys are way to funny about the shinny things. Have to say I love the bling, too, but let me run them on the track and lets see...

Nesta

[Jerry Ward]

Pablo-

Where can one buy some of the Buffalo Arm's Liquid to try out? Think we have good water here!!

Thanks,

Jerry

[Duffy]

I'm still speculating in the dark, and it's not a wise thing. Never slowed me down much before, though...

When we tumble things at my present job, they usually get steam-cleaned when they come out of the tumbler and then blown-dry like I said; so they're super-hot when blown down, and the water just vanishes. Their protocols for what's gonna happen to the parts after that, like get 'em out quick for the next process or dip 'em in oil. This kind of thing's mostly beyond our home capability, but you can see some work-arounds.

Now, if they don't steam the parts, the steel will have a film on it - a patina of tumbling medium, accreted by the water's surface tension. And as I think on it, I really haven't actually seen use of any additives here.

But, there's something else to say: the steel in a machine shop tends to not rust, compared with how things happen in a home environment - you notice this when you bring some tool home and suddenly it's looking kinda dull! The slightly-creepy reason is, everything in the shop has a residue of oils on it, including the air. The steel just don't stay bare long enough to rust.

I don't have a tumbler. After washing in hot soapy water and patting off with paper towels, I'll buzz my frames off with wire brushes in my Dremel. This shines things up reasonably well as we've all done, pre-tumbler; but I notice something as I wirebrush - the shiny area also gets a kind of smudge in it, which is the residue of metal and whatever-else mixed with that vanishingly-small amount of oil that the brush not only won't remove but actually carries along. Dry-wiping with soft cloth doesn't pick up this residue either, but the chassis will shine up well enough that I'm satisfied.

I wonder if the process actually lays down a protective film that keeps the rust under control.

Maybe what we're looking at is a matter of proportion?
Try just teeny amounts of antifreeze. Or, the polishing compounds like Flitz or SimiChrome have an oil & wax medium, you may be imparting that film by use of those--in tiny amounts.

In the molding shop I worked in, they used to add dish detergent to the plastic pellets to keep the dust down - like, a tablespoon or two to 20-30 lb. of material and into the dryer 'til morning.

One last thing: spring steel famously rusts in the pattern you got there on the TonyP chassis. Horrible stuff! We used a lot of it when I was repairing clarinets, saxophones, etc., and we'd typically buff all the springs down with Flitz in a scrubby kitchen sponge, the gentle pink/white one.

Waiting to hear how the Bon Ami turned out.

Duffy

[Pablo]

Jerry, look at the very first post in the thread.

Rick, I don't remember if you have yet tried simply distilled water and Buffalo Arms liquid. I'm real curious about that...??

[dc-65x]

The Bon Ami started to shine the brass but after two hours I shut it down for the night.

I started over with cleaned media, weighed to make sure there was ten pounds in the drum.

Drum filled with distilled water until it covered the media.

One heaping capful of 50/50 antifreeze.

Three big shakes of Bon Ami.

Tumble, tumble, tumble...

[dc-65x]

After four hours of tumbling the chassis looked just OK. Again the steel was nice and bright but the brass was not that great.

Rick, I don't remember if you have yet tried simply distilled water and Buffalo Arms liquid. I'm real curious about that..??

Pablo, I tossed mine when I mistakenly thought it was causing the problem .

I cleaned out the tumbler and media (again) and I'm trying something that polished well in the past but caused corrosion. But this time I'm using distilled water instead of my demon tap water:

Tide Low Suds detergent for front loading washing machines, distilled water and NO antifreeze.

Tumble, tumble, tumble...

[JerseyJohn]

Hello Rick,

JJ here. I have experienced everything you guys have said. Blackened brass, pitting in steel, etc. After a lot of research I have found out that the ceramic cylinders are usually used as a carrier for other compounds.

I have the AR12 so I have gotten some fine polishing silica to add to the mix of cylinders and water...

Stay tuned...

[Pablo]

1 qt BA compound on it's way to you, Rick, via USPS Ground.

Try it with distilled water and let me know how it works.

[dc-65x]

John, please keep us posted with your test results .

Hey, Pablo - thanks . I was just about to order some.

I went back to the first page of this post, to the first chassis I ever tumbled and it turned out fantastic. I'll be giving the old Buffalo another try.

Thanks again.

[Pablo]

I have a quicker trigger finger than you.

[dc-65x]

I cleaned out the tumbler and media (again) and I'm trying something that polished well in the past but caused corrosion. But this time I'm using distilled water instead of my demon tap water:

Tide Low Suds detergent for front loading washing machines, distilled water and NO antifreeze.

This time the steel and solder look like they've been chrome plated... BLING! but the brass is only OK. So far there is no corrosion in the steel but I've had it show up weeks later . I'll wait and see on that front.

But, what's going on with the brass not looking beautimus?

I'm starting over. I just ordered new ceramic media from Cabelas. It's not only in stock but on sale with a $15 discount.

When Pablo's Buffalo Arms polishing liquid and the new media show up I'll try again, but with distilled water.

Onward...

[Noose]

I've been using the stock stuff that came with the tumbler - AR12 - and it is fine.

[Duffy]

. So far there is no corrosion in the steel but I've had it show up weeks later .

Bare steel rusts. Gotta do something for it. Clear laquer, a spritz of Flitz, a squirt of penetrating oil, even silicone mold release spray, whatever. Once you start running the chassis it'll pick up oil and assorted mungs that'll protect it great, but 'til then.

I asked the tumbling guy today about additives, and he pointed out a fifty-gallon drum with "blue water" in it - label's long since rotted off. A cupful in the tub and we're off, but we're no more informed! Sorry 'bout that, but I think you're already replete or about to be.

Duffy

[dc-65x]

I know this tumbling thing is working out very simply and very well for lots of bloggers. The first chassis I did on page one of this post was done quite simply and turned out great.

I believe my problems are a "yin yang" thing and yin left town .

I have been overcome with "Negative Waves"...

NEGATIVE WAVES

Soon I shall be replete with new positive wave goodies from "the big brown truck".

[Mopar Rob]

What do you think about using WD40 with the media?

When I was doing Eurosport chassis, we used to wet-sand the spring steel before and after assembly using WD40 for the lubricant instead of water.

[Rick]

I am waiting to see how Rick makes out with distilled water. I have found the pitting also. I think its because the water is alkaline from the tap and the baking soda turns it base ergo... pitting.

I have had my best luck with plain tap water and couple of shakes of cleanser for the polishing agent, no baking soda. Foams little and shines like a new nickle. Lots of bling.

I have a mixture of Pappy's media, some Buffalo Arms, and some really small stuff from a lapidary source someone posted here.

[Noose]

Rick... good point. I have well water at my place so maybe I am not seeing it.

[Phil Irvin]

I haven't had to get any thing for my tumbler in a long while. I have had some pitting on the steel and don't like it but....

I get all my ceramic media and other stuff from RIO GRANDE JEWLERY MAKING from Albq. N.M. hey send a nice 'dream' book too 800-545-6566

OLPHRT
PHIL I.

[Jerry Ward]

Well I had a gallon of prep sol left over from when I painted real cars for a living .Prep sol what I used to clean the car right before I painted the car great stuff!! Thought I would try something differen't so I put the media in my tumbler and not quite half full of prep sol only nothing else . 2 hours in checked it don't look bad and NO pits and kind of shiney If nothing else I'll have the cleanest media around!! Going to leave it in all night will see what happens!! Jerry

[Jerry Ward]

Just took it out of tumbler WOW!!! No more water and soap for me!! Looks real nice prep sol worked good and you can use it over and over. Will post some pictures later . Jerry