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FSCS 2023 rules and schedule discussion


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#26 Hot Slots

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 07:23 AM

Some of the Top Retro Racers in the State said they would catch some races if the series dropped the spec gear rule.

There needs to be some compromise Maybe Spec Nascar, Spec Pinion LMP, Open GTP.

I don't know if that would be enough to get some of the Retro Guys to race with us.

Hell I might just start racing GRR.
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#27 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 01:52 PM

Some of the Top Retro Racers in the State said they would catch some races if the series dropped the spec gear rule.

There needs to be some compromise Maybe Spec Nascar, Spec Pinion LMP, Open GTP.

I don't know if that would be enough to get some of the Retro Guys to race with us.

Hell I might just start racing GRR.

 

 

I think you'd probably make some racers happy if you simply allowed the Chicagoland motor to run a larger pinion.  It could beome the spec for that motor to allow it to be competitive.  Not necessarily faster ... just make it competitive to provide an option.  And ... that alone would let the GRRR guys use their existing supply of motors.

 

I thought I'd really dislike the spec gear ratio for NASCAR and LMP ... but it hasn't really bothered me.  I haven't run the same car in both classes (yet) but it does make it possible for a low-budget racer.  GTP is already open as far as the gear ratios are concerned.  

 

Reality is that almost everyone ends up running the same gear ratio by about the third or fourth race of the year.  


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#28 Hot Slots

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 02:20 PM

This just about sums it up.

 
Reality is that almost everyone ends up running the same gear ratio by about the third or fourth race of the year.  [/quote]

Let them eat.
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#29 Tampabay racer

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 10:05 PM

The CL 102 motor mist defiantly needs a bigger pinion that whats allowed. I wouldnt run a 13 on a retro eagle either.


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#30 dalek

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 07:43 AM

 

I think you'd probably make some racers happy if you simply allowed the Chicagoland motor to run a larger pinion.  It could become the spec for that motor to allow it to be competitive.  Not necessarily faster ... just make it competitive to provide an option.  And ... that alone would let the GRRR guys use their existing supply of motors.

 

 

I thought I'd really dislike the spec gear ratio for NASCAR and LMP ... but it hasn't really bothered me.  I haven't run the same car in both classes (yet) but it does make it possible for a low-budget racer.  GTP is already open as far as the gear ratios are concerned.  

 

 

Good points.

 

I usually run different cars for NASCAR and LMP but there have been a couple of times in the past that I've run the same car with just a change of pans and body.

 

IMO, the raceway owners have put together a good set of FSCS rules with the exception of maybe the need to spec a larger pinion for the CR102's.



#31 Hot Slots

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 08:11 AM

Spec Pinion and Open Spur

I'm seeing this concept in many other series, if they even are running spec rules.

13 for Retro Eagle
14 for CR102
That should be enough to roast either motor down if it's got a small enough spur on it, I don't have much experience with the CR102 to confirm this but I've got some RE pretty hottt.

This isn't entry level racing.
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#32 dalek

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 12:09 PM

I believe the primary purpose of spec rules, in regard to a traveling series, is to reduce the number of variables that a racer has to spend time figuring out when he is racing on a track that he lives too far away from to spend any time testing on, other than on race day.
 
 


#33 dalek

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 12:14 PM

The raceway owners apparently feel that have one less variable will result in attracting more racers.



#34 Hot Slots

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 01:22 PM

Ya sure
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#35 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 04:36 PM

The CL 102 motor mist defiantly needs a bigger pinion that whats aloud. I wouldnt run a 13 on a retro eagle either.

 

You do a lot more racing and testing than I do ... if not a 13T; what size pinion would you run?

 

 

 

 

"...... IMO, the raceway owners have put together a good set of FSCS rules with the exception of maybe the need to spec a larger pinion for the CR102's."

 

 

I believe the primary purpose of spec rules, in regard to a traveling series, is to reduce the number of variables that a racer has to spend time figuring out when he is racing on a track that he lives too far away from to spend any time testing on, other than on race day.
 
 

 

 

 

I wouldn't be mad if there were no changes at all for 2023 ... with the exception of allowing the Chicagoland motor a more competitive size of pinion.

 

Year-to-year consistency is usually a good thing.  Just change what absolutely needs changing .... like the Chicagoland pinion size.

 

 

 

 

Spec Pinion and Open Spur

I'm seeing this concept in many other series, if they even are running spec rules.

13 for Retro Eagle
14 for CR102
That should be enough to roast either motor down if it's got a small enough spur on it, I don't have much experience with the CR102 to confirm this but I've got some RE pretty hottt.

This isn't entry level racing.

 

 

Hey ... even NASCAR has gone to spec gear ratios.  

 

Two ways to look at the spec pinion / spec spur rule .... 

 

  • On one hand, a spec almost isn't needed because (almost) everyone ends up running the same gear ratio once they see what wins the first couple of races.  
  • On the other hand, you might as well have a spec gear ratio because (almost) everyone ends up running the same gear ratio once they see what wins the first couple of races anyhow.

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#36 Tampabay racer

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Posted 30 October 2022 - 11:47 PM

Another thing Id like to see switched from this year to next. Dale shouldnt be on the bod get him out

Brian Ambrose


#37 Hot Slots

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Posted 31 October 2022 - 09:10 AM

What is the Role of the BOD? The Unified
voice of the track owners?

I noticed the track owners don't comment, it's always the BOD.
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#38 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 31 October 2022 - 05:03 PM

What is the Role of the BOD? The Unified
voice of the track owners?

I noticed the track owners don't comment, it's always the BOD.

 

 

Not really an answer to your question ... but I'll throw in my $0.02.  (Of course!!)

 

That BOD spokesperson role is thankless.  I know because I did it for a few years ... even for a year or two after we closed our raceway.  I was thrilled when Doc volunteered to take on the role.  And, I'd bet Doc was thrilled when Dale volunteered to take on the role.


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#39 dalek

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Posted 20 November 2022 - 09:26 AM

I am joining the guys who would like to see the spec gear rules for NASCAR and LMP dropped.

Open gearing would eliminate the hassles and headaches associated with raising bushings and running big tires in order to "gear up" the cars.

If the gear ratio that the winning cars had is made known, that would help non-locals know what to run in the future.
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#40 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 20 November 2022 - 10:48 AM

I am joining the guys who would like to see the spec gear rules for NASCAR and LMP dropped.

Open gearing would eliminate the hassles and headaches associated with raising bushings and running big tires in order to "gear up" the cars.

If the gear ratio that the winning cars had is made known, that would help non-locals know what to run in the future.

 

I'm a cheap SOB so I like the fact that I only have to buy one size of spur gear.  But, like I said before, gear selections become pretty uniform after a race or two as racers quickly adopt whatever the winner is using.

 

Way, way back in the day .... so long ago that NASCAR still ran 48-pitch gears ... the "Spec NASCAR" class dictated a 9-tooth pinion on the DZ-prepared Pro Slot 16D motors but you could run a 27, 28, or 29 tooth spur gear.  

 

I will add that the challenge for me as a guy with no local track within a two hour drive is that I can't easily go test to determine what the best gear ratio is going to be.  And the morning of the race isn't exactly the ideal time to discover that I guessed wrong on gear ratio.

 

Still ..... The spec gear rule isn't a deal breaker for me either way.


Rollin Isbell
 


#41 Bucky

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Posted 20 November 2022 - 11:45 AM

It takes a little bit of effort, but testing gear ratios the morning of a race isnt that bad. If you start with the largest spur youre going to test and .005 spacer between the spur and oilite theres usually room to test a couple more spurs without unsoldering the motor by adding a thicker spacer between the oilite and a smaller spur gear. Just remove spacing from between the spur and tire as you do this so the car stays the legal width. I do unsolder the motor after picking a gear ratio because I prefer to only run an .005 spacer between the oilite and spur, and to perfect the mesh for the race.

Id rather do this than have to constantly adjust oilite height and tire size to try to optimize the rollout ratio. Pinions are a pain, but most of us can probably guess which pinion to run before getting to the track.
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#42 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 20 November 2022 - 12:02 PM

It takes a little bit of effort, but testing gear ratios the morning of a race isnt that bad. If you start with the largest spur youre going to test and .005 spacer between the spur and oilite theres usually room to test a couple more spurs without unsoldering the motor by adding a thicker spacer between the oilite and a smaller spur gear. Just remove spacing from between the spur and tire as you do this so the car stays the legal width. I do unsolder the motor after picking a gear ratio because I prefer to only run an .005 spacer between the oilite and spur, and to perfect the mesh for the race.

Id rather do this than have to constantly adjust oilite height and tire size to try to optimize the rollout ratio. Pinions are a pain, but most of us can probably guess which pinion to run before getting to the track.


Unfortunately … as I’ve gotten a little older … everything takes longer. . And taking motors out and putting them back in takes me longer than I care to admit.

Shoot … I’m already regretting my decision to use pin tubes. I need to use my “1:30” (not a fan, btw) just to put the body on.

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#43 dalek

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 08:52 AM

For any class that will have spec gearing, I would like the maximum tire diameter to be spec also, say maybe .730.



#44 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 09:27 AM

For any class that will have spec gearing, I would like the maximum tire diameter to be spec also, say maybe .730.

 

You've had a bunch of pretty good ideas ... but I can't get behind this one.   That's making things harder rather than easier to race.

 

Hell ... guys apparently can't measure 1/8" for a front bumper on a NASCAR.  What makes you think they can accurately use calibers to measure their tire diameter?

 

And I'll listen to your argument if you can make a compelling case.

 

 

 

After seeing the Chicagoland motor in action on Sunday and talking to a couple of racers who are more familiar with it than I am, I'm pretty convinced that giving it a 14T pinion instead of a 13T pinion will make it competitive with (not superior to) the Mid America Retro Eagle.

 

And I'd be REAL happy with that single rule change and call it a day.  I'm holding off on nearly all slot car purchases until I know what's changing.  And that's not good for anyone's business. ;)

 

MAYBE ... add a body that's competitive to the RTR bodies without looking ridiculous or taking us down the ultr-high-downforce rabbit hole.

 

Let's wrap this up, publish the rules, set the calendar and get ready for 2023.


Rollin Isbell
 


#45 Jay Guard

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 10:36 AM

What about spec pinions and adding a +/- dimension for the rear axle "height" as measured from the bottom of the chassis to the top of the axle?    Maybe just a +/- .010" from the original "out of the package" dimension so the axle could be leveled.  On these cars making that measurement should be fairly easy for the tech inspector to do. This would also make it a bit easier for newbies not having to deal with rollout ratios since the combination of spec pinion, axle height, and ground clearance would pretty much fix that.   Finally, allow any spur gear to give just a little room for tuning.  


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#46 Hot Slots

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 10:54 AM

Why dont we just run JK Boxstock cars and just switch bodies.

That makes it easier.


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#47 Jay Guard

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 11:03 AM

Well maybe just for Nascar and LMP, then let the big dogs (GTP) eat without those restrictions.


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#48 Wizard Of Iz

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 11:13 AM

Well maybe just for Nascar and LMP, then let the big dogs (GTP) eat without those restrictions.

 

That's kinda what it is now.  Spec gear ratio with weight restriction for NASCAR and LMP and no gear or weight restrictions for GTP.


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#49 Hot Slots

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 11:18 AM

Max tire size, spec gear, blah blah blah.

All your doing is dumbing down the hobby.

Woke Racing.

FSCS where everyones a Winner.


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#50 Bucky

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 11:41 AM

Jays plan seems like a winner. Itd leave lots of room to fine tune gear ratios with spur size (32-39 are available through Eagle) and would negate the need to test axle height/tire size combinations to get the fastest rollout ratio. Testing a couple spur sizes the morning of a race isnt too bad, and after a race or two everyone would end up running the same size gear.
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