125 replies to this topic

[Jay Guard]

Brandon:  

Even these "State" races are not the ultimate "Big-Time", and are meant to try to include all levels of slot car racers and even bring in a few new guys.  This is what helps keep the slot car shops open.  The top pros like you will always take more than your share of podiums no matter how "Woke" the rules are.

 

Now if you truly want more serious competition I would recommend you look into competing in the next USRA Division 2 Nats, especially the top classes like GT-12 and 1/24th Eurosport.  Yes there are still quite a few rules but there is a lot of room for tuning and I suspect if you showed up at the next Nats you might be the one who's just a bit "Woke Up".

[dalek]

 

You've had a bunch of pretty good ideas ... but I can't get behind this one.   That's making things harder rather than easier to race.

 

Hell ... guys apparently can't measure 1/8" for a front bumper on a NASCAR.  What makes you think they can accurately use calibers to measure their tire diameter?

 

And I'll listen to your argument if you can make a compelling case.

 

 

Whatever works to enable a racer to run a tire diameter that is reasonable for bushings soldered in the chassis' bushing holes as manufactured, but still have the top speed needed to keep up with any other car.

 

I think Mossetti's have .047 clearance with about .700 tires.

 

IMO, we should be able to run .700 tires, even on Fast Eddie's oval, and still have the top speed we want. 

 

I personally am not interested in playing the oversize-tire game like this past year (some racers running tires with diameters near .800 I believe).  The easiest solution would be to drop spec gearing.

[Jay Guard]

Dale:

Wouldn't my idea of an axle height rule fix that problem since running crazy large tires would probably hurt handling due to having a huge ground clearance?

[Hot Slots]

.815 to be exact

Go Big or Go Home

[Hot Slots]

Im no Pro and my pockets arent deep enough to race at that level Jay.

All im reading are more restrictions, I understand this is simpleton Local Regional Racing but all these restrictions are crazy.

I dont agree with all these restrictions, we arent weekly racing there should be areas were racers that test and build will excel, and the ones that wanna get there develop themselves to get there. All these restrictions push racers to race other series and travel out of the state to race elsewhere.

[Jay Guard]

Brandon:

I think the kind of rules I'm proposing are generally geared to develop driving skills over car development skills, which even with my rules there is still some element of that available.  The newer guys can come out to a state race and improve their driving skills by just signing up and competing, but if they have to add some serious thrashing I believe that takes a lot the fun out of it for most of them.  For guys like you, and many of the top flexi racers, thrashing is no big deal at all, but for many of the others it is a huge impediment to participation.  And to be honest what we need is more drivers (with the chance of them becoming really good) as opposed to just a handful of great drives that honestly tend to drive many of the lesser drivers off.

 

I guess where our opinions really differ is that you think the restrictions will chase drivers off and I believe it will bring and keep more in. Who's right, I don't think anyone knows for sure as all of this is just my opinion.  However I do have quite a few decades of racing experience in many organizations and race classes to back it up what I believe..

[dalek]

Dale:

Wouldn't my idea of an axle height rule fix that problem since running crazy large tires would probably hurt handling due to having a huge ground clearance?

 

I think yes somewhat, but if you limit tire diameter (as opposed to axle height) it removes the possible thrash time that a racer might feel he needs to spend in order to find the best balance between tire diameter and handling.

 

The way I see it, if the gearing restriction is removed, it takes care of all of these issues.  It also simplifies tech.

[Hot Slots]

If we are trying to get new racers which is great.

Why would we want a max of a .730 tire? Any new to the series driver isnt going to have a tire truer to even cut a pair of tires to .730, maybe the .720's they buy will be .730 out the tube.

What thought process was put into .730? I get this is one persons request, but if your looking to gain new racers, wouldnt off the shelf parts keep things easier for them? I know of 2 tracks that i race at occasionally that dont have truers for the racers to use like P1.

If the spec gear restrictions are removed theres no purpose for tire height rule. It wouldnt matter for the most part.

[Wizard Of Iz]

Please .... everyone take a deep breath.  Let's keep the ideas coming and consider everything and then pick out what's best for the Series ... not just yourself.  It's really hard to admit to my friends that we argue about how to play with our toy cars.    

 

Dale -- I apologize that my earlier comment on your post was a little dismissive.  I still need to learn to listen more than I talk.

 

 

This is a good group of guys to race with!  When Eddie/Nathan, JT, and I decided to come back and race we pretty much had to start fresh.  It's taken a while - and I may never even get back to even being as bad as I used to be - but I'm having a fun.  

 

We wouldn't have gotten this far if not for Marcus, Ed, Aaron (Bucky), Brandon, and Josh being willing to share information.  You guys certainly could have withheld information once you figured out that "that-Nathan guy" can drive, but y'all kept the information flowing and it's greatly appreciated.  

 

Certainly none of y'all have done anything that would make me want to put the controller back on the shelf.  Just the opposite ... Whatever the rules are .... I hope I see all of y'all in 2023.

 

 

Growing participation in the FSCS starts with the local track owners running classes with rules that are inline with the Series rules.  And then talking up the racing.  I see Ed and Marcus both bringing racers with them and I used to do the same thing.  That's how you grow the Series.   But the Series shouldn't dumb-down in the hopes of attracting more racers because local racers - usually - are not willing to make even a minor/simple change in their Weekly car just to race in a Series event.

 

 

And I acknowledge that I'm probably going to talk in a circle and will likely talk out of two or three sides of my mouth.  But here are a few thoughts ...

 

Spec Gear Ratios - Having a spec gear ratio for NASCAR and LMP definitely made it easier for us to feel like we were/are on a more level playing field when we started back since we don't have a nearby track to test at.  So for that reason, I like it.  

 

There was a time I would have screamed "NO" regarding any spec.  And, some other series spec a pinion (FNRS) and others spec the pinion and spur in some classes and just the pinion in others (USSCA). Shoot .... even NASCAR has spec gear ratios these days.

 

I talked to Eddie and he says "Keep the 35 and allow the Chicagoland motor a 14T pinion."  I'd go along with that.  (But you could talk me into just spec pinions.  Maybe.)

 

Tire Sizes - As long as the car passes .047 tech ... I don't care what tire size someone runs.  I have a NASCAR chassis jigged for .720s (and usually start with .725s) and another jigged for .765s (and usually start with .770s.)  They run amazingly similar times on Ed's Tremendous Tri-Oval.   If someone wants to run 1" drag tires ... let them.

 

If someone needs a chart to help with selection .... I have a spreadsheet that considers gear ratio and tire size to give you a final drive ratio.  I'm happy to share.

 

Tech - I think there needs to be periodic in-race tech like Marcus did at the Enduro to ensure that all cars are legal during the race.  And, I think there definitely needs to be a post-race tech of the Top 3 cars.  (BTW ... Marcus did a great job on Sunday!!) 

 

Bodies - I'd like to see alternatives to the RTR Titan, Orca, and Viking .... WITHOUT .... going to the ultra-high-downforce bodies that would make current bodies obsolete. 

[MSwiss]

Did you guys race the enduro with the 13-35 spec ratio?

[Hot Slots]

Yes

[Wizard Of Iz]

Did you guys race the enduro with the 13-35 spec ratio?

 

 

Yes

 

 

We did and they performed marvelously!  Not a single failure.

 

The Enduro rules essentially mimicked the FSCS 4" Stock Car rules for weight (92 grams) except we ran a GTP body (RTR Viking).  The entry fee included one CR motor and one pair of Mid America .760 Soft Wonder Rubber tires.  You had to pass .062 tech at the beginning of the race and .039 tech at the end of the race.  

 

The CR motor has been legal all year ... but consensus is/was that it could benefit from a 14T pinion to be competitive with the Mid America Retro Eagle motor.  At the required 13:35, the Eagle has a slight advantage  ... at the expense of reliability.

[dalek]

 

Tech - ... And, I think there definitely needs to be a post-race tech of the Top 3 cars. 

 

 

The rules say cars have to be legal at all times DURING a race -- not AFTER a race.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like post-race tech could turn into a real can of worms.

 

Maybe it makes more sense that the last tech should be prior to the last heat. 

 

If at any time during a race, a car doesn't tech, then it would have to be corrected under green.

 

 

During a post-race tech, would you DQ a car if:  

 

1) It has less than .039 clearance?

 

2) It is under minimum weight (can happen due to tire wear or a weight fell off)?

 

3) It's track is wider than 83mm (can happen during a race if a wheel setscrew isn't quite tight enough)?

 

4) It has ball bearings but wasn't noticed during the tech inspection before the race?

[Wizard Of Iz]

 

 

The rules say cars have to be legal at all times DURING a race -- not AFTER a race.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like post-race tech could turn into a real can of worms.

 

Maybe it makes more sense that the last tech should be prior to the last heat. 

 

If at any time during a race, a car doesn't tech, then it would have to be corrected under green.

 

 

During a post-race tech, would you DQ a car if:  

 

1) It has less than .039 clearance?

 

2) It is under minimum weight (can happen due to tire wear or a weight fell off)?

 

3) It's track is wider than 83mm (can happen during a race if a wheel setscrew isn't quite tight enough)?

 

4) It has ball bearings but wasn't noticed during the tech inspection before the race?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually ... the rules say:

 

 

3.1.1 Drivers are responsible for keeping their cars legal at all stages of a race. At any point of the race or following the race, cars may be subject to tech inspection.

 

Yes ... I would DQ a car that has less than .039 clearance.  There's a responsibility to protect the track surface and braid.

 

Yes, I would DQ a car that is under the minimum weight as it's the racer's responsibility to have their weight sufficiently attached.  Otherwise what's to stop a racer from intentionally removing weight(s) during the race to gain an advantage.  I don't recall a single in-race tech inspection during the entire season.  And, no, I don't think we should stop every heat of every race.  Racers shouldn't know when it's coming but should wonder if it's coming.

 

Yes, I would DQ a car if it's found to have ball bearings even though that fact was possibly missed during pre-race tech. Every racer knows the rules and if they're running ball bearings (motor or chassis) in any class (other than the ball bearings in the RTR Raptor) then they have made a deliberate attempt to gain an advantage.  And that makes them a cheater and they should be called out.

 

Depends.  If the rear width is wider than 83mm, I would allow it if it's excessive side play causing the extra width.  I'd give the racer the benefit of the doubt that the "slop" is there because of race damage and if it is correctable by pushing the tires and/or gear to their tight position, then I'd let it go.  If there is no side play and especially if the extra width is on the gear side and the set screw is tight ... then I'd presume that the extra width was intentional and DQ the car.

[dalek]

Good call, Rollin.

[Tampabay racer]

Im in for no spec gears, more legal bodies in nascar anyway. Rtr bodies are good but there are more good bodies out there. The Mid America mustang or corvette would be a great addition. Id lean more towards the mustang. Mid America has great pulls and the bodies look authentic. Why do we have weight rules? Adding lead to the chassis the car gets hit and it does fall out. Without the driver knowing it does. Then that car is illegally and the driver had no idea. Some racers dont have scales. No one grinds on the chassis to make them thinner/lighter we pretty much all run the same chassis anyway. Just keep the all steel chassis in all classes. With the improved steel pans theres no need to run aluminum now anyway.

Nothing against anyone here at all believe it or not but Im not sure why anyone that dont run in the series would have a comment or concern on the rules?


Last but not lease get Dale off the board. Hes not a track owner. Get Joe involved hes a track owner now.

[Wizard Of Iz]

Last but not lease get Dale off the board. Hes not a track owner. Get Joe involved hes a track owner now.

Brian ,,,

Unless things have changed recently .... Dale isn’t on the board. At least not as a voting member.

Nor am I.

Dale’s just the guy stuck trying to communicate on behalf of the track owners once they make their decisions. And I can tell you from having had that job in the past that it is an absolutely thankless job.

Ed, Joe, and Marcus have raceways to run and none of them spend much time on Slotblog. (Which probably makes them smarter than me.) That leaves Dale to type the rules, post the results, track the points, and make posts on behalf of the Owners. All without the authority to make any changes without the owners’ permission.

[Bucky]

Yes ... I would DQ a car that has less than .039 clearance.  There's a responsibility to protect the track surface and braid.

My new local track doesnt have a minimum chassis clearance rule besides not allowing the spur gear to hang under the car. When cars get too low they drag in the rear and get really loose. Its a bit of a challenge to run just enough tire to get to the end without dragging the rear. I think the braid is recessed .035. Theyve raced this way for years, and the braid and track are great.

[dalek]

Last but not lease get Dale off the board. Hes not a track owner. Get Joe involved hes a track owner now.

 

 

The only voting members of the BOD are Ed, Marcus and Joe.  And with Joe being new to slot cars, he will naturally be relying a lot on Ed and Marcus.

 

Rollin and I are on the BOD as advisors but there really is no reason for me to be on the BOD because I can still post race results and keep up the points standings.

 

If the raceway owners want to consider any racer's rules suggestions, that racer doesn't have to be on the BOD.

 

So, I resign.  I'm off the BOD.

[Wizard Of Iz]

My new local track doesnt have a minimum chassis clearance rule besides not allowing the spur gear to hang under the car. When cars get too low they drag in the rear and get really loose. Its a bit of a challenge to run just enough tire to get to the end without dragging the rear. I think the braid is recessed .035. Theyve raced this way for years, and the braid and track are great.

 

That's very interesting!   And kind of makes sense.

 

It probably really is all about keeping the gear off of the track.  Because I saw a low-hanging Faas gear destroy the braid in the donut at one of Bill Pinch's track.

[Wizard Of Iz]

 

 

The only voting members of the BOD are Ed, Marcus and Joe.  And with Joe being new to slot cars, he will naturally be relying a lot on Ed and Marcus.

 

Rollin and I are on the BOD as advisors but there really is no reason for me to be on the BOD because I can still post race results and keep up the points standings.

 

If the raceway owners want to consider any racer's rules suggestions, that racer doesn't have to be on the BOD.

 

So, I resign.  I'm off the BOD.

 

 

 

I'm still on the BOD as an advisor?  How's that possible?  I didn't even race for two years.  And haven't been a track owner for seven years.

 

Hmmm .... Well, in that case .... Free lane stickers for everyone!!!

[Jay Guard]

Nothing against anyone here at all believe it or not but Im not sure why anyone that dont run in the series would have a comment or concern on the rules?

Man, I'm sure glad I'm not "that guy" as I've raced in at one or two FSCS races this and last year.  But I have to say if I felt there would be a bit less thrashing involved at the race (due to more things being "spec") I might have been interested to run a few more races this and last year than I did.

[Hot Slots]

Jay what thrashing do we have before a race? Tire selection? Chassis selection?

We get 3 bodies to choose from and the RTR Bodies are the fastest. We have spec gears. The MA Retro Eagle is the fastest motor with the Spec Gear. Every series racer that testes would know all the info above, if they spend the time to test to know what works. I used the same chassis(different chassis for each class)at every track halfway thru the year because it was the fastest at all 3 tracks once i figured out my combo.

Everyone should test before the race if they wanna be competitive, this was my first season racing more than 1 race at only Melbourne. I tested at every track the week before the race if the track was open.


The series is dumbed down so much
I literally test tires before the race.

If we dont want self induced thrashing we as racers should test before the race and be ready. Or at least be at the track when it opens race morning.

[Wizard Of Iz]

Jay what thrashing do we have before a race? Tire selection? Chassis selection?

We get 3 bodies to choose from and the RTR Bodies are the fastest. We have spec gears. The MA Retro Eagle is the fastest motor with the Spec Gear. Every series racer that testes would know all the info above, if they spend the time to test to know what works. I used the same chassis(different chassis for each class)at every track halfway thru the year because it was the fastest at all 3 tracks once i figured out my combo.

Everyone should test before the race if they wanna be competitive, this was my first season racing more than 1 race at only Melbourne. I tested at every track the week before the race if the track was open.


The series is dumbed down so much
I literally test tires before the race.

If we dont want self induced thrashing we as racers should test before the race and be ready. Or at least be at the track when it opens race morning.

 

 

I think a lot of people are hesitant to ask for help.  Not me.    And, thank God people have been willing to share information with me.  Probably because they (a) realize that I'm no threat to the podium, (b) hope the information might help me keep my car in the slot, and (c.) they're just happy to see more people racing.  

 

For Eddie/Nathan, JT, and I;  the spec nature of the NASCAR and LMP classes factored into our decision to pick up the controllers after a two-year layoff.  But if there were no specs ... we'd quickly adopt whatever the front-runners were running.

 

I realize that Eddie/Nathan, JT, and I are perhaps the only racers that don't have a local track within about 60 minutes to test on or race at.  Melbourne and Winter Garden are both about a 2:20 drive each way.  Fortunately ... we all have a lot of laps on the Hillclimb in Pinellas Park and I have a place to stay about 20-30 minutes from that track so we can come down early and get in a Test & Tune session.  But for the other races ... that 4:15am alarm followed by a 2:20 drive doesn't exactly leave me fresh and ready to thrash.

 

We've thought about building some front-wheel cars so we can at least test motors at The Race Place in Daytona since it's "only" 90 minutes away.  But that doesn't really help us with setting up for what we're actually racing. 

[Hot Slots]

If it's spec gears its spec gears, but when i read a proposal for .730 tires or a max axle height in a chassis it solidifies my decision for buying these expensive retro chassis I've been getting.

Ya'll can add whichever rules you want and if i can make some races i will. But i feel some of these rule proposals are a bit extreme.