169 replies to this topic

[Zippity]

Thank you Ivan, for posting an honest appraisal of the PS9000 motor.

 

Some here, may not like what you have to say.

[Jason Holmes]

Ron #80 

[swodem]

Regarding the inconsistencies I think we are all experiencing

1. There is nothing wrong with the can - some have already tried different arms in the can
2. There is nothing wrong with the magnets - these are fine and have been around in all sorts of motors for years
3. The arm is basically a 4002 arm with 10 fewer winds
4. The endbell is the same
5. The rear bushing is new. However there is no sign of galling
6. So that leaves the brushes. These do wear very fast on some (trouble) motors. So this is where the problem lies I think

My suggestion is before using and PS9000, remove the brushes and install a set of 4002 brushes and bed them in 5v 30 min.

I bet no problems.

Years ago there were problems with a batch of GoldDusts, and more recently BF II’s (I’m told). So it’s now my belief that this is where the problem lies. The soft (faulty) brushes wear fast and gum up the comm slots with dust, lots of arcing and shorting

That's my theory, anyway.

[rmjlmartin]

Has anyone run the ProSlot American arm equivalent of the Speedball, the PS-9007 Crazy Eagle? We're allowing those locally, alongside the Speedball. I've had the local raceway order me one, since I don't trust the Speedball yet, and my 4002fk isn't really competitive. (It's discouraging to turn the most laps I've ever run in an LMP Flexi race and still end up dead last, since it was the one race at that point that no Speedballs died...I'm usually a middle of the pack racer, so I don't necessarily expect to win, but last is pretty frustrating.)

 

And on the Speedballs, my son took a chance on another one. I tossed the stock brushes, installed a set of stock 4002fk brushes, since I didn't have any ProSlot G7 brushes on hand, and geared it 10/38. It did survive, but ran hotter than I would have liked, so we're going to try 9/36 or 9/37 on it for the next race. I did notice that, from my recollection of the first one we tried, I believe the 4002fk brushes wore less than the stock Speedball brushes on the first one we ran (the raceway owner sent a couple of burnt Speedballs off to ProSlot for evaluation, and his was one of them), so maybe Steve is right about sketchy brushes being the problem? Another local racer has one that now has 6-8 races on it, but he's gone through four sets of brushes.

[W. J. Dougherty]

Whats a Crazy Eagle? PS does make a Big Dog which is the same specs as the 9000 arm down to turns/diameter/stack length

[rmjlmartin]

The Big Dog is listed in the ProSlot catalog with the Euro Mk1 ceramic magnet motors, and you're right- it is the same specs as the Speedball arm, 55t 30.

 

The Speedball and Crazy Eagle are in the Euro poly neo motor section. The catalog lists the Crazy Eagle as the American arm counterpart to the Speedball, and it's a 65t 30 wind, which, oddly enough, I believe is the same wind as the 4002fk arm.

 

The PS-4007 Scorpion was the American arm equivalent of the 4002fk, and it had a slightly milder wind than the 4002fk.

 

So, for some reason, the ProSlot American arm motors have a slightly milder wind than the Chinese ones. And, of course, there's the Big Dog that they already make that's the same spec as the Speedball arm. That's not confusing at all, is it?

 

Does anyone know how the Big Dog compares to the Speedball? And does anyone know why the American arm equivalent motors seem to have a slightly milder wind, at least in these two cases?

[Richie]

Has anyone measured the airgap on one of these motors?

Thanks!

[W. J. Dougherty]

I assume PS wound them milder because the PS blank and comm package are faster than the Chinese equivalent. Last I heard PS makes 2 blanks, the Intruder and the M2. When I was racing we used the Intruder blank for wing cars and the M2 for scale cars. Im guessing the Big Dog, Crazy Eagle, and Scorpion all use the M2 blank which will make them faster

[swodem]

Has anyone measured the airgap on one of these motors?

Thanks!

 

A .530 slug fits in a little tight. .525 has some play, so I'd assess (in my motor) around .528 would be correct

The arm measures (erratically because not ground to size) .515

So that would make it roughly 0.0065 at its tightest

 

 

Attached Images

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[Richie]

Thank you!

[swodem]

So on the weekend we ran an 8hr enduro with the PS9000 motors
5 teams
We had one motor failure. This was a can bearing failure
All other motors ran the full 8hrs without a hitch
Speeds were very similar and consistent all day
Gearing that I know was;
10:35 64p
10:36 64p
11:40 72p
11:42 72p
Not sure the 5th gearing setup
This was on flat track ISRA size 8lane, C43 chassis and Tesla body


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[MSwiss]

Did you use the stock brushes?

[gotboostedvr6]

Also Cut brush tips or full?

[rmjlmartin]

What size and compound tires were you running?

 

And just to clarify, were these sealed Speedballs, or were you allowed to work on them? Just curious, since my impression from some of the earlier comments that you were working on them.

[swodem]

Did you use the stock brushes?

Yes this motor that I ran had already done 2000 laps on test on my small (3.3sec) club track.
So I thought I’d just see how far it would go
Brushes about done now


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[swodem]

Also Cut brush tips or full?

Full
They’re so worn even cut ones would be full for most of the race


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[swodem]

What size and compound tires were you running?
 
And just to clarify, were these sealed Speedballs, or were you allowed to work on them? Just curious, since my impression from some of the earlier comments that you were working on them.

Started on 16.8mm tyres
All motors for this race were sealed.
(I only played with the ones that failed at the start to get them going again)


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[swodem]

Here is our motor as it finished
Not much left of those brushes


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[Lawren71]

Has anyone run the ProSlot American arm equivalent of the Speedball, the PS-9007 Crazy Eagle? We're allowing those locally, alongside the Speedball. I've had the local raceway order me one, since I don't trust the Speedball yet, and my 4002fk isn't really competitive. (It's discouraging to turn the most laps I've ever run in an LMP Flexi race and still end up dead last, since it was the one race at that point that no Speedballs died...I'm usually a middle of the pack racer, so I don't necessarily expect to win, but last is pretty frustrating.)
 
And on the Speedballs, my son took a chance on another one. I tossed the stock brushes, installed a set of stock 4002fk brushes, since I didn't have any ProSlot G7 brushes on hand, and geared it 10/38. It did survive, but ran hotter than I would have liked, so we're going to try 9/36 or 9/37 on it for the next race. I did notice that, from my recollection of the first one we tried, I believe the 4002fk brushes wore less than the stock Speedball brushes on the first one we ran (the raceway owner sent a couple of burnt Speedballs off to ProSlot for evaluation, and his was one of them), so maybe Steve is right about sketchy brushes being the problem? Another local racer has one that now has 6-8 races on it, but he's gone through four sets of brushes.

I've been curious about the crazy eagle myself, I purchased a few motors to do some testing. Proslot states that this motor is the same performance as the speedball, but with "higher quality parts". I've ran it for several weeks at my local raceway on wendsday nights. They run hawk 7/ sealed 4002 or sealed speedball. Sealed vs sealed lap times are comparable to one another. I tried gearing it lower like an speedball and was able to gear it up the same as my fk setups. So far the first one has gone through 7-8 races and pratice sessions and held up on the first set of brushes I've put in. Nothing more than basic cleaning / maintenance done after every race. The second motor probably has about 1000 or so pratice laps on it. Since then I've seen a number of failures with the speedball, including one catching on fire. Besides the wind / gauge differance the only other differance I found is the stack. The speedball ones seem longer around a 0.380" vs the crazy eagle that's a little shorter around a 0.350". I think the same as the 4002 arm vs the scorpion.

Regarding the brushes and springs we usually swap them out immediately for the proslot red springs and the g7/x7 brush shortened up.

[rmjlmartin]

I've been running a couple of Crazy Eagles for probably half a dozen races or so now. We run them and Speedballs in LMP and DTM Flexis. We were running a DTM points series last Winter, when this thread started, and I got the Crazy Eagles for the last few races of that. The LMP doesn't usually work for my schedule, so ours haven't been run for a few months, until we just started racing the DTMs again a month or two ago.

 

My older son has been running Speedballs (he's now on his third), and I set up a car each for myself and my younger son with Crazy Eagles.

 

Based on my limited experience and impressions, I think I like the Crazy Eagle better. These are my observations-

 

I've immediately replaced the Speedball brushes with ProSlot G7/X7 brushes. I think I'm remembering correctly that my son's second Speedball was on it's third set of brushes (the first was a set of 4002fk brushes, not G7/X7), but the Crazy Eagles are both still on their first set. The Crazy Eagles come with X7 brushes. That second Speedball has just been replaced with the third one.

 

We've geared both motors at 10/38, but I may try a tooth or two smaller spur on the Crazy Eagles. Like you mentioned, David, the Crazy Eagles do have a shorter stack, and I think they like to be able to rev a little more than the Speedballs, but I'm still experimenting. I've been erring on the side of caution, since a burned-up $60 motor is a lot more to swallow than a $23 one.

 

The Crazy Eagles run significantly cooler than the Speedballs, at least at the same gear ratios. I was advised by ProSlot to keep the Speedballs under 180 degrees, and the ones we've run have been pushing that at 10/38. The Crazy Eagles seem to run a good 30 degrees or so cooler. However, my observation has been that the Crazy Eagles seem to be slightly slower at the same ratio, though I have not done a direct comparison in the same car, with the same driver, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

It's probably irrational at this point, since I'm told by the other racers that have been regularly running them that we haven't really had any significant issues with the Speedballs for awhile, but I'm still a little leery of them, given the issues we had with them when they were first released. I don't think they will last as long as the 4002fk that they replaced, and so far, the Crazy Eagles seem like they will last significantly longer, too. Of course, the Crazy Eagle is an American arm motor that costs more than double the price of a Speedball, so I would hope that would be the case. My two sons and I will be racing in an event in September, and will be running Speedballs then, so I guess we'll see how they do.