169 replies to this topic

[Zippity]

Thank you Swiss.
 

[crazyphysicsteacher]

Here is an (old) 4002 that I have grabbed the hardware tabs and wenched them way out of alignment with a pair of pliers

The hood ‘housing’ hasn’t moved

It won’t because it’s clamped in place by the screws and spring posts, which are located by nipples

So trust me, a tug on the lead wire won’t end up in your timing going off




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The angle of the spring hoods can change and the sides tweeked. This will change the alighment of the brush to the comm. I have seen it on brand new and old motors, bending the tabs will cause changes in brush angle enough to effect both rpm and wear.
I understand that you may use a vise grip to tighten the hoods but the rest of us don't.
And for others, this is also the reason why you may have different rpm readings based on if the motor is sitting on a bench or hanging from the bench by the wires while running.

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[team burrito]

you could tighten the brush hoods & solder the bottom plate for better conductivity.

[swodem]

you could tighten the brush hoods & solder the bottom plate for better conductivity.

I’ve heard of this being done.
I guess if you had an endbell set up as a jig this would be an effective way of ensuring perfect alignment and shape.

I must try it.

[swodem]

Not really the huge difference many are afraid of…




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[Zippity]

Look at the F1 times!

[swodem]

Look at the F1 times!

Allan Tucker is much faster than the rest of those racers it’s not a field of fair comparison


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[MSwiss]

We're still having good luck with ours, in wing cars, on 13.5V.

They're currently in 5 or 6 cars.

No question they are faster than 4002FK's.

I would say .1 faster than an exceptional one.

.2-.25 faster than an average one.

Whenever I pick up a car that stops by me, at the end of a heat, they are running cool.

I will say, last night, the racer who had one in his car first, wasn't quite as fast as the guys with fresher ones.

I'd say he has at least 5 races on it, though.

[W. J. Dougherty]

Mike Swiss- do you allow your guys to rebuild their FKs and 9000 motors?

[MSwiss]

No.

[team burrito]

Mike Swiss- do you allow your guys to rebuild their FKs and 9000 motors?

 

No.

 

Why not? if you stick with the stock armatures, it shouldn't be a problem.

[swodem]

why not? if you stick with the stock armatures, it shouldn't be a problem.

Because he has a raceway and sells motors for a living.

[Phil Smith]

And that's a good reason. Got to keep the doors open.

[swodem]

Yes, protecting places to race is #1 priority

[team burrito]

If he sells the armatures, is that enough? It's a shame to throw out the whole motor when it can be repaired.

[swodem]

Probably not? Maybe?
 
I think the issue is deeper with competitive racers wanting seals intact.

Personally I’d love it if we could race unsealed minicans, but many here don’t want this.

[jimht]

Rebuilding motors is not necessary in order to have fun racing and running slot cars.

 

While it can be an educational and interesting experience for the devotee, for most it is akin to making your own socks.   

[Phil Smith]

Right, it's a class for those that don't want to rebuild motors, which is most racers now days.

[Bill from NH]

Why are those Pro Slot motors built to be rebuildable? Why not just another sardine can?

[Phil Smith]

If you guys that want to rebuild motors, race in a class that allows that. No reason to try and change classes that don't allow that and  are doing well. It makes no sense.

[MSwiss]

If you guys that want to rebuild motors, race in a class that allows that. No reason to try and change classes that don't allow that and  are doing well. It makes no sense.

 
I don't ever remember anyone uttering "I wish we could rebuild these." If that was the case, one guy would be doing all or most of the work.

Michael Iga, who wrenches on almost all the cars, to make them competitive, so we have clean, close racing.

Most guys don't touch their cars between races.

A few weeks back, after the race, I asked one of the guys if I could borrow his car for an experiment. He said "Sure, it just sits in my truck between races."
 

if he sells the armatures, is that enough? it's a shame to throw out the whole motor when it can be repaired.

 

There isn't enough racing, or guys interested in just running around, to use anywhere near the available Pro Slot setups.
  

Why are those Proslot motors built to be rebuildable? Why not just another sardine can?

 

I'm pretty sure you are aware Pro Slot uses this platform for a bevy of non-sealed, mostly drag motors.

[Mr. HP]

We're still having good luck with ours, in wing cars, on 13.5V.

They're currently in 5 or 6 cars.

No question they are faster than 4002FK's.

I would say .1 faster than an exceptional one.

.2-.25 faster than an average one.

Whenever I pick up a car that stops by me, at the end of a heat, they are running cool.

I will say, last night, the racer who had one in his car first, wasn't quite as fast as the guys with fresher ones.

I'd say he has at least 5 races on it, though.

 

Mike, we are seeing similar results at Downriver Speedway's King on the same voltage.

 

So far I haven't had any motor failures (one motor with close to 2,000 race laps, another with approx. 1,000 laps and couple more that I'm testing with). The only other thing I'd like to mention is that the 9000 motors seem to be a little more sensitive to gearing changes than the 4002 is, but once the motor is in it's happy place it's definitely faster (I ended up adding three teeth to the spur over what I was gearing my FKs).

[W. J. Dougherty]

What are you gearing your 9000s? Whats the tire diameter? Thanks.

[swodem]

What are you gearing your 9000s? Whats the tire diameter? Thanks

10/36, .650".

[iv_man]

I was halfway through writing this the last time the thread was locked - I was late by about a minute!  But I had posted elsewhere and will copy here now.  This is what we found at our local flat track and in our case we are making comparisons based on looking for performance parity rather than just a new product to replace a superseded one.  i.e. speed is important to us in that we want to run as near the same as we do now:

 

The Speedball was a mixed bag at our flat track. We've worked our way through about 8-10 of them with mixed results.  Haven't smoked any although performance was a very wide range out of the bag. Some were slower than 4002FK but a few were as expected with the relatively low wind and not much else of significance different.

 

As a trial we ran a 6x7 minute race with four LMP cars (C43 our go to production chassis). Two drivers per car, a short enduro of sorts.  Two cars had an out of the bag Speedball. Two cars had the weaker Speedballs with 4002FK arms in them (as a test of keeping future parity with all our existing records etc.). Gearing was nothing special running a mix of 11/36 and 11/37. Wheel diameter pretty much leveling the rollout for the motors.

 

The converted Speedball/4002FK's were on par with usual 4002FK pace. The standard Speedballs were faster, one of them downright obscene i.e. it was a bit awkward being able to put laps on everything else in the field at will.

 

Since then we have also tested the JK Hawk and Hawk 6, which we had done previously a few years ago. They're not quite as spicy but come very close to the 4002FK. In a C30 GP/Indy chassis it's a nicer drive.

The very first Speedball tested prior to the test race did practice laps in the 3.9s with ease (4002FKs would be in the 4.1s, high 3.9s would be exceptional race pace and hardly ever happens) and eventually ran mid 3.7s which would be competitive with previous G12 GTP events and would compete with our regular Flexi Wing cars that use Phoenix motors.

 

So in summary this is not going to offer any parity as a replacement to the 4002FK for us. It's a whole different machine.