105 replies to this topic

[Bill Breck]

 

 

If you order Createx paints, make sure you also order some of their #4011 Reducer (Thinner) and some of their Airbrush Cleaner.    As @Eddie Fleming said, thinning the paint is the key.  I try to get the paint to about the consistency of Skim Milk.  Then I turn the pressure down to about 20psi and apply the paint in VERY thin coats.  The first coat is barely more than a misting to fog the body.  Then I use a hair dryer on the "air" or "low" setting just long enough for the sheen of the paint to disappear.  Then I repeat the process applying more coats until I get the coverage I need.  

 

Resist the temptation to just blast the paint on the body like you would with a rattle can.  Too much paint applied too quickly will result in runs.

 

 

 

Yes, Createx #4011 reducer is fantastic. I use the same process as you. Only difference is I use a small space heater instead of a hair dryer.

[studentdriver]

I asked Dennis at Createx about this specific thing as I'm impatient and many coats = "like watching paint dry"... see what I did there?

 

Anyways, the recommendation is not to use heat, only a fan blowing at low speed across the paint area...The heat traps the solvents and other things that are supposed to evaporate with time vs heat creating a top layer (I think he referred to it as a "skin") that traps in solvents.

 

If you are not using the heat part and only using fan then it doesn't apply.

 

 

 

Yes, Createx #4011 reducer is fantastic. I use the same process as you. Only difference is I use a small space heater instead of a hair dryer.

[Wizard Of Iz]

Quick question regarding Createx. I race occasionally in a series where the racing gets pretty tough (high speed).. a simple deslot can turn a crappy, non-stick paint into a wonderous confetti mess.. Does the Createx (since it's acrylic based) stick well? Does it have any solvents in it to make it bind to the lexan well?

 

Again, I'm definitely trying to go with function over form.. if it looks good great but I want it to stick AND work well (ie: not cause issues with lexan).

 

thanks!
Mike

 

 

 

 

 

I know that Createx advises against hair dryers.  Some of the guys that use Createx on their model car bodies have a theory that using a hair dryer only dries the top layers of the paint leaving the bottom layers that are against the body itself in a perpetual damp state.

 

However .... I've used a hair dryer to speed the process for probably close to 30 years.  Again ... I'm using the dryer on either "just air" or at the most, "low heat."  And I hold the hair dryer nearly an arm's length away from the body.  Just long enough to take the sheen off of the paint.  Kinda like waiting for car wax to haze over.

 

By the way .... I've made nearly every painting mistake you can think of.  When I first started, and would be thrashing to get a body ready to use the next day .... I tried using "high heat" and got it too close.  The paint cracked like parched dirt in the desert.  Thankfully the cracks weren't visible from the outside of the body.  Lesson learned!

 

 

Regarding the paint staying in during rough-and-tumble racing ..... At 64+, my days of having a "clean" race are definitely in my rear-view mirror.  There are lots of problems with my driving and plenty of chassis bends to fix ... but the Createx paint (even fluorescent colors) stay in the body!  Back when I painted with Pactra Lacquer paints - whether it was a rattle can or with an airbrush - the fluorescent colors were prone to flaking out of the body.  

 

And I definitely don't miss having to wear a 3M charcoal-filtered mask when I paint.  Because with lacquer paints I'd still have a blue tissue the next day when I blew my nose if I didn't wear a heavy-duty mask. 

[Brian Czeiner]

I've definitely heard of caveman bodies and thanks for replying to the thread!

 

I would probably be considered a monster to painters.. it's not my main focus on the hobby. That said I can appreciate great paint jobs and love seeing them at races. My main focus is just to have consistent paint that doesn't damage the lexan.. which so far has been a surprisingly difficult task. That said I'm definitely still learning and if I go the airbrush route perhaps I can get better as a painter as well.

 

I was wondering what do you use to paint your bodies that you sell? I'm used to buying pre-painted bodies but it's been recommended to start painting and cutting my own bodies for the series I race in occasionally.

 

 

 

 No such thing as a monster for painting, at least not to me. We all start somewhere. Sharing what I've learned keeps the hobby growing. With that said....

 

I use all of the paint brands mentioned previously and a few that weren't, mostly because of available color options. Those few are craft store type paints. Apple Barrel from Walmart at 50 cents or so per bottle. Just needs lots of thinning for the airbrush. It may be able to be brushed on but I think it may be too thick for your application where every quarter of a gram counts. I've also used Duplicolor rattle cans from the auto store. For 007 thin bodies you better dust (fast arm movement and a moment of spray)  the layers on to prevent damage. Nothing says you need to cover the whole body at one shot. Maybe doing a spot here and there until the body is fully covered will work for you? It still ends up as only one coat. An 007 body is the thickness of plastic before vacuum forming, not after. You are probably looking at .004-.005 at best as a formed body. A spot here and there might be a viable experiment?

[Bill Breck]

I asked Dennis at Createx about this specific thing as I'm impatient and many coats = "like watching paint dry"... see what I did there?

 

Anyways, the recommendation is not to use heat, only a fan blowing at low speed across the paint area...The heat traps the solvents and other things that are supposed to evaporate with time vs heat creating a top layer (I think he referred to it as a "skin") that traps in solvents.

 

If you are not using the heat part and only using fan then it doesn't apply.

 

 

 

Most of the time I just use the air from my airbrush to dry the very light coats of paint. However I think it's important to note that when I do use use heat (which is usually in the Winter) I use the lowest setting and keep the body at good distance away from the heat source. It's more like a warm breeze than a constant wave of heat.  I'm definitely not trying to "bake" the paint.

[Mad Mark]

Thanks for the reply... Thanks for mentioning that many folks use the Createx and it sticks well. I'm a complete newb with painting and then add on the whole lexan/polycarbonate aspect and I know even less.. so this is all a new world for me.
 
I guess I wanted to understand how it works so I gave Createx a call and spoke with 1 of their technical experts. He explained that technically their paint does make use of solvents but not the traditional ones. I guess they could be considered safer in many ways then the old school solvents. I guess this is why the smell isn't as bad. That said even if I wanted a "half-baked" paint job (even with rattle can) I need to do very light coats multiple times (this might be a no-duh moment for some folks, I get that). The light coats allow the solvents that make the paint stick to evaporate and not get locked in and eat the lexan/polycarbonate. I still have a little concern since our series people typically run .007 thick bodies that using traxxas paint might have a chance to loosen up the body too much? That said I don't know if different colors make use of a different amount of solvent? Not sure, forgot to ask.
 
things I learned so far
1) when using anything translucent (typically Transparent or Fluorescent colors) if you want them to be more Opaque then either apply more LIGHT coats or apply a backing coat of a non-translucent or Opaque color.. (yes, I see some people rolling their eyes but this is new to me).
2) solvents in paint can do many things... including destroy what you are working on if used improperly. For example applying paint to something that paint shouldn't technically be used on. ie: by the right paint for the right job (sounds simple but you might be missing something even!)
3) typically the solvents will evaporate or become inactive so applying multiple lighter coats will not necessarily make whatever you are applying the paint to weaker if done correctly. ie: there is no such thing as a half-baked paint job as it'll end up actually causing problems with lexan... argh..
 
the only thing I'll mention is that when I spoke to Createx they also maybe suggested adding in UVLS-4050 to make it just a bit stronger but it's not necessary. You can do 9 - paint, 1 reducer (as suggested by folks in this thread) but then also add another 1 of the clear coat to make it a bit stronger.
 
Also I'll mention that it seems like not all acrylic paints are the same... different solvent options. So maybe Createx works great but other acrylics not so much.
 
You might have known a lot of this Bill but figured I'd just mention it in this reply.. and thanks again!

 

I can tell you right now Createx does not stick well at all. Only a few bodies I’ve done recently the paint doesn’t scratch off just looking at them wrong. Most people that use Createx do a final coat of urethane clear to make a scratch-resistant coating, it seems. I’ve used their balancing clear and it maybe helps a little.

[Bill Breck]

I can tell you right now createx does not stick well at all. Only a few bodies I’ve done recently the paint doesn’t scratch off just looking at them wrong. Most people that use createx do a final coat of urethane clear to make a scratch resistant coating it seems. I’ve used there balancing clear and it maybe helps a little.

 

That's not my experience with Createx at all. Never had a problem with it "not sticking". Never had to do a final coat of urethane or anything else to prevent scratches.

 

"Most people"? Unless you can show us some evidence to back that up I'm going to have call BS.

 

Sounds to me that the people who you are quoting need to re-think their painting process.

[Bill from NH]

Mark, what's your experience with Parma Faskolor been?

[MG Brown]

I have had very good results with Tamiya PS series paints. Did you use TS or AS paint by accident?

 

Misting on several light coats should give the very best results.

 

Certain colors MUST be backed up with white or silver; any florescent for example.

[Mad Mark]

That's not my experience with Createx at all. Never had a problem with it "not sticking". Never had to do a final coat of urethane or anything else to prevent scratches.
 
"Most people"? Unless you can show us some evidence to back that up I'm going to have call BS.
 
Sounds to me that the people who you are quoting need to re-think their painting process.

I’ve personally been struggling with it so watched a few RC body vids and asked around in my own airbrushing thread I started and seems majority of what I saw did a coating to lock in the paint. I’d like to know what your process is to not have it scratch off so easy?

[Mad Mark]

Mark, what's your experience with Parma Faskolor been?

I’ve only used it once or twice. i just recently bought some old bottles for cheap at the hobby shop that where old but it seems to spray and have way better coverage than the createx. I’ve only used fas blue so far.

[Wizard Of Iz]

 

I can tell you right now Createx does not stick well at all. Only a few bodies I’ve done recently the paint doesn’t scratch off just looking at them wrong. Most people that use Createx do a final coat of urethane clear to make a scratch-resistant coating, it seems. I’ve used their balancing clear and it maybe helps a little.

 

 

 

That's not my experience with Createx at all. Never had a problem with it "not sticking". Never had to do a final coat of urethane or anything else to prevent scratches.

 

"Most people"? Unless you can show us some evidence to back that up I'm going to have call BS.

 

Sounds to me that the people who you are quoting need to re-think their painting process.

 

 

I'm with Bill!   I've been using Createx since about 1993 or 1994 and have NEVER had a problem with it "not sticking."  And, as Bill said, I've never had to use anything to do a cover coat.

 

Will it rub out if the body is getting rubbed by a tire?  Yes.  But so will almost any other paint.

 

If someone is having adherence problems with Createx, I'd bet that they're trying to get too cute with what they're using to thin the paint.  Many, many years ago, I read about - and tried - thinning Createx with 409.  Some people swore that thinning with 409 allowed the paint to dry quicker.  Nope!  In fact, my experience was the exact opposite.  I had one body where it seemed like the paint never dried. .... to the extent that my 3M strapping tape wouldn't stick to it.  I quickly went back to using Createx's reducer!

[Bill from NH]

OWH had a large photo display of bodies painted with acrylics thinned by 409. I never tried it but I've had a new bottle of 409 stored down cellar for so long I forgot why. I still use some Polly S acrylic thinner I've had for years too. We used Polly S acrylic paint in the '70s for painting numbers on the outside of wing car bodies. It stuck to Lexan like glue.

[Brian Czeiner]

Experience has taught me in the past that occasionally I've thinned paint too much and it won't stick. Maybe play with air pressure before thinning too far. Airbrush paint should be of a milky consistency.  Of course, rattle cans could omit this issue, though I have seen a few that were beyond thin and ran faster then an Olympic sprinter.

[Bill from NH]

You should mix paints in a cup or jar rather than in an airbrush. A good test for paint viscosity is take a paintbrush full of your mixed paint & see how quickly it runs down the inner wall of the cup or jar it's mixed in. If the paint is too thick, add some more reducer, if too thin, add some more paint. Each bottle, even of the same brand, is apt to be a trial & error.

[Wizard Of Iz]

You should mix paints in a cup or jar rather than in an airbrush. A good test for paint viscosity is take a paintbrush full of your mixed paint & see how quickly it runs down the inner wall of the cup or jar it's mixed in. If the paint is too thick, add some more reducer, if too thin, add some more paint. Each bottle, even of the same brand, is apt to be a trial & error.

 

I use my old Pactra lacquer paint bottles to mix my Createx.  A much better painter than me first advised me to mix the paint and reducer in a separate container and then let that mixture set for a few minutes and that practice has served me well. 

 

When my daughter was little; she enjoyed getting Rock Candy on a stick.  I still have a collection of those sticks that I use as paint stirrers.  

 

And .... yes .... I agree you should treat every bottle individually.  After all ... there's no way to know how long the "fresh" bottle of paint you just bought actually sat on the shelf at the store or on the shelf at their distributor.

[pn6]

 OK Mike so now you've got the idea, right?? 

 

I could add my experience with clear bodies but then you'd have yet another option to ponder. Instead I can summarize for you as you seem to be where I'm at after 40 years of R/C body painting using air brushes and rattle cans. 

 

Always was the body in dish soap and do your hands at the same time.

Dry it with a lint free towel and blow it out after.

Tape it off.

Apparently nowadays Tamiya paints in cans (PS) sticks well and is readily( key word here) available so use that. Do thin coats of color and back with white or silver depending...

Done!

 

Racing is the fun part unless you get hooked on an airbrush scheme. I still use an airbrush if the color I want is in a bottle and some of my old paint is still good. I also use an external mix airbrush.  I've done and used practically everything mentioned in this thread and you will probably try most of it and decide for yourself. 

 

Before they disappeared the Pactra RC body paint was the best around for racers. It came on bottles and cans and they had all the colors you'd ever want! 

If they'd come back with that paint it would be all you'd need. But this is all just my opinion...

 

 

 

 

[Bill from NH]

Paul, have you ever used Testor TCL paints?  I think I still have bodies painted with them that never thoroughly dried from the '70s. They were an odd paint that required their own thinner.

[team burrito]

I got tamiya from ERI and it was horrible. All the colors ended up cracking and falling off almost immediately after drying

 

After a horrible experience with Tamiya acrylic then, I've not been willing to try any of the acrylic-based (water-soluble) paints again.

 

You guys must be doing something wrong, because tamiya spray cans is all that i use & it works great.

 

[pn6]

Paul, have you ever used Testor TCL paints?  I think I still have bodies painted with them that never thoroughly dried from the '70s. They were an odd paint that required their own thinner.

No Bill I haven't. I've just been using up my old supply of Pactra RC stuff and some Tamiya PS. I'm temped to try the Createx using their thinner (reducer?). I do have some automotive acrylic and reducer which works great but I think if it was used on a real thin body it might melt it! 

I'm still leaning towards staying with the Tamiya stuff

[Bill from NH]

The Testor TLC paints came & went before the Pactra RC colors. You aren't missing much. Parma sold bottles of solvent-based paints then too. Theirs airbrushed much better.

[Wizard Of Iz]

No Bill I haven't. I've just been using up my old supply of Pactra RC stuff and some Tamiya PS. I'm temped to try the Createx using their thinner (reducer?). I do have some automotive acrylic and reducer which works great but I think if it was used on a real thin body it might melt it! 

I'm still leaning towards staying with the Tamiya stuff

 

It took me quite a while to adjust to calling it Reducer instead of Thinner.

 

Createx #4011 Reducer works quite well with Createx's Airbrush Colors and Wicked Colors.  Even with the Kelly and/or Ralph Thorne bodies that started out from .007 and ended up as .005 or .004 ... I haven't had any issues with melting bodies.

[studentdriver]

Couple of updates

 

1) I have a cheap airbrush kit coming in from amazon black friday deal.. it was 70 bucks. I can always upgrade the gun. I figured worst case I can play around with it and still go back to rattle cans with what I learned in #5.... (read below)

 

2) I bought createx paints, both opaque and fluorescent colors. Bought the 4011 thinner. I called their technical support and he confirmed that it should stick fine. If it doesn't then I'm doing something wrong. I will retry but might give up (learn to fight some battles).

 

3) going to play around with some water bottles first with airbrush...

 

4) most stuff arrives tomorrow (paint and airbrush).

 

5) MY ISSUE with Traxxas paints was figured out by Bill Seitz (we had an exchange going on in the background). It was pretty much my fault. Was using fluorescent Traxxas and trying to make it opaque (or at least darker) which leads to too much solvent being introduced. I need to use an opaque paint as a backer. This is a complete newb painter mistake. That said I am still a little worried that even if I do light coats with Traxxas paint it might weaken the body a little? I might retry after airbrush testing.

 

6) I'm pretty sure the Tamiya paint was just flat out bad OR I did it too heavy (see a theme here?) That said I had 2 colors that went on fine and 2 that didn't so I'm kind of leaning towards the 2 paints being somewhat bad. A couple people have mentioned if it was TS or PS.. The 2 I kept were PS.. it IS possible the other 2 I got rid of were TS. I can't verify.

 

7) I'm waiting for ralph thorn racing bodies to come back in stock. I'm going to buy a bunch of clear and learn. Yes I will continue to wash the bodies as I have been.

 

8) My 1 concern is, how do I mix the paint in a secondary container without wasting it? I need a 9 to 1 mixture of paint to thinner. I don't think I'll need all of that paint for 2 bodies but we'll see? I'm hoping Michael's or Joann's (craft places in PA) will have stuff that I can use to mix in and count out the correct amounts?

 

Anyways, wish me luck!

 

Mike

 

 

 

It took me quite a while to adjust to calling it Reducer instead of Thinner.

 

Createx #4011 Reducer works quite well with Createx's Airbrush Colors and Wicked Colors.  Even with the Kelly and/or Ralph Thorne bodies that started out from .007 and ended up as .005 or .004 ... I haven't had any issues with melting bodies.

[Bill Breck]

 

8) My 1 concern is, how do I mix the paint in a secondary container without wasting it? I need a 9 to 1 mixture of paint to thinner. I don't think I'll need all of that paint for 2 bodies but we'll see? I'm hoping Michael's or Joann's (craft places in PA) will have stuff that I can use to mix in and count out the correct amounts?

 

Anyways, wish me luck!

 

Mike

 

 

 

Additional things you should consider getting:

 

1. Pipettes. Use these to transfer paint to a mixing pot or if you want to control the exact mix of paint and reducer. Michael's and Joann's probably have these. A lot of people buy them in bulk on Amazon.

 

2. Mixing cups. Mix your paint in these. Again, many people buy them in bulk on Amazon. Not sure if craft stores will have them.

 

3. Paint jars/bottles.  Store your mixed, unused paint in these. You could also mix your paint directly in these if you're concerned about wasting paint. Amazon will have these. You can get small squeeze bottles in the craft aisle at DollarTree.

 

4. Paint stirrers. I use small kraft sticks from DollarTree. You could also use coffee stirrers.

 

5. Paint pot. I use the one from Harbor Freight, but you should be able to get one at any kraft store. 

 

Don't feel that you need to mix the paint to a predetermined ratio (9:1). Experiment with the consistency of the paint and see what works best for you. Good luck!

[Bill from NH]

They are kind of big, but you could ask someone for baby food jars & covers. They seal pretty tight. Acrylic paint could be stored in medicine bottles with snap-on tops. 45 mm film was another good source foe tight plastic bottles, If you have a tattoo shop in your area, check with them to see what they sell for bottles. I used to buy glass 2 oz. bottles with screw on lids. I don't know if those a still available or not. Someone on eBay may sell glass bottles, maybe even a craft store such as Micheal's or Hobby Lobby.

 

You don't have to mix up the whole bottle of paint, just pour off the amount you think you'll use. If you mixed too much, pour the unused in a container. Bill's saving & reuse of old paint bottles is a good idea too.

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