371 replies to this topic

[Rick]

So, if the Slick7 were more like the old Dynamic chassis kit pieces...
separate pods for the front & rear, elongated &/or multiple locations/slots to install pieces???
In other words a bunch of parts that could be assembled in many different ways, then how would the Board's "Retro Recalcitrants" feel about it?
I mean, are you guys against making it easier to start building chassis or what?
Please apply that collective Retro brain power to assist the manufacturer in his effort to provide a product by providing guidelines...
not just playing "whack-a-mole".

"Whack-a-mole" is working..

[Noose]

Please apply that collective Retro brain power to assist the manufacturer in his effort to provide a product by providing guidelines...
not just playing "whack-a-mole".

If the manufacturers asked we would gladly assist them. In this case, for the IRRA, none of the board members were asked for assistance.

[Justin A. Porter]

I'm all right with the IRRA voting down the Slick 7 and FX chassis, even though I would have liked to have a Slick 7 for until I get my own design to actually work (same reason I will probably get a JK or one of the chassis that Frank solders up over at Route 93).

What I would like though, are some specifics on what design elements make the chassis contrary to the "spirit of retro". Is it only the pillow blocks, is it the tab-in-slot assembly technique, or are there specific elements in the shape and layout of the pans and rails that other builders should avoid.

Being 24, all of this is actually pretty new to me (to this point, pretty much everything I've ever raced has been a Champion Turbo Flex) and I really do want to participate in Retro races.

[tonyp]

Basically the only thing in the "Spirit" is it's an inline.

[Noose]

Justin just look at the various race reports frm D3 or Retro East, Ohicvo Valley and Serra. There are tons of pics of what acceptable frames look like. Look in the Scratchbuilding Gallery for some pics too.

[TSR]

Please apply that collective Retro brain power to assist the manufacturer in his effort to provide a product by providing guidelines...
not just playing "whack-a-mole".

Jim,
I don't know about whacking anyone or anything but if someone wanted to produce such a kit and market it for "retro racing", should they not read the regulations for such classes first? D3 rules as an example, specifically disallow chassis with pillow blocks and multi-piece motor brackets...
And then there is the INTENT, that is more important than anything in this retro racing thing, and that has so far contributed in a large part to its success.
Greg Wells and I have privately and publicly argued about the vehicle, Greg believing that its importance is less than the actual gathering of people around a given event.
I am sorry to strongly disagree, and believe that the vehicle and its physical attributes are what made retro racing quite a success story in its little pond so far.
Retro tech does not mean adapting 1980's tech in such to attempts to return to the 1960's in a way that it LOOKS like it would be OK, such as using center rails acting as center hinges. Retro is not Eurosport.

[Noose]

And then there is the INTENT, that is more important than anything in this retro racing thing, and that has so far contributed in a large part to its success.
Retro is not Eurosport.

Amen and Amen again

[tonyp]

Personally I'd rather race with 20 guys that scratchbuilt cars and are proud of what they designed and come out and race them, have fun and have a great weekend, than race with 75 people running snap together model kits. Retro is about the cars, scratchbuilt cars.

[Chris Barnes]

Amen, Amen, and Amen again!

[TSR]

That's scary when more than two persons agree with me...

[tonyp]

I guess we finally found something people dislike more than you. LOL...

[HarV Wallbanger III]

Yes it is Mr. P! Ya gotz my vote as well guys!

[Mike Steube]

I didn't know how to build a chassis when I first started racing. I asked my brother to show me how. He sat down with me and started teaching me how to build a chassis. I didn't learn how in that first session. I didn't learn how until I put the time and effort into learning how. I asked my brother and fellow racers what to use. I asked how to, how to, how to and tried, tried, tried until I could. The modern racer, it seems, wants an A main scratchbuilt Retro car without learning how to build one. He wants to click on it and have it pop up. I find it hard to believe that people will choose a retro-SCRATCHBUILDING class to race in and CHOOSE not to scratchbuild. It doesn't make sense.

[tonyp]

"I find it hard to believe that people will choose a retro-SCRATCHBUILDING class to race in and CHOOSE not to scratchbuild. It doesn't make sense. "

EXACTLY!

[Mark Wampler]

Scratchbuilding is dying out Mike. Us old guys who used to be kids liked tinkering, experimenting and testing. That's rarely happening with today's culture. Everything is instant, for the moment gratification. If you can't build, there are plenty of alternatives that are protected under the rules

Pick your favorite builder and pay up for a set up. Doesn't mean you can build. Its nice to have a collection and be proud of, but that still doesn't mean you can build. You can get parts and assemble fairly easily. That still doesn't mean you can build.

There are more able drivers than builders these days, suppose?

So there you have it

[Noose]

Scratchbuildin is like riding a bike. Once you learn the basics you don't forget. You might not be perfect but capable. When we started out Gorski got me back with a frame he made for me until I got my stuff. Tony and Dennis have made me several. The thing is I have also made my own.

[Pablo]

So True, Mike S.

When D3 started, I thought, I can build a frame and RACE it ? Against guys like STEUBE ? WOW
Now it looks like anybody can throw one together without much thought.

Same sad story in motorcycles, in my teens I could rebuild an engine or build an expansion chamber. Nowadays, ya got kids doing triple jumps and 100 yard wheelies, yet don't know how to fix a broken chain or change a sparkplug. At my local track the kids can't even solder.

[John Streisguth]

The last few posts pretty much hit the nail on the head for me. I still have a pile of junk from the early 70's when I first started to build my own frames, as well as a Grp 27 chassis that I used semi-successfully on a local level (this was built from how-to articles in Model Racing Journal). There is a learning curve, but if you can solder together a eurosport chassis, it's not a big leap to building one from scratch. I mean, come on. As I said in a previous post, this should not be something that is simplified, it should be something people aspire to. Many of the skills I learned racing slot cars became part of my avocation (electrical theory, soldering skills, gear mesh, etc).

To track owners: how about working with some of the local racers that do have these skills to hold clinics to help others along? Like soldering 101, that would be a good place to start. If you can't solder a pinion on, even flexi car racing is tough.
To the top chassis builders: how about an article on building a frame, like they used to publish in magazines? It's nice for those of us that have some knowledge to see the chassis in the gallery, but a step by step of something besides a JK kit would help others grasp some of the less obvious methods and reduce the frustration of figuring it out on their own.

Or am I just a dreamer??

[John Streisguth]

I didn't know how to build a chassis when I first started racing. I asked my brother to show me how. He sat down with me and started teaching me how to build a chassis. I didn't learn how in that first session. I didn't learn how until I put the time and effort into learning how. I asked my brother and fellow racers what to use. I asked how to, how to, how to and tried, tried, tried until I could. The modern racer, it seems, wants an A main scratchbuilt Retro car without learning how to build one. He wants to click on it and have it pop up. I find it hard to believe that people will choose a retro-SCRATCHBUILDING class to race in and CHOOSE not to scratchbuild. It doesn't make sense.

Amen to that. Seems nobody has the patience to learn anything, it's all instant gratification. Even if I'm just copying someone elses design, building it and making it work, usually through trial and error, is more gratifying to me, especially if I can climb "the ladder" and work my way to the top group. If I wanted something quick and easy to build, I would be racing HO cars.

[Pablo]

To the top chassis builders: how about an article on building a frame, like they used to publish in magazines?

It's already done, John, the Mike Steube Video. Fantastic "How - To" step by step on how to build a great racecar.

[TSR]

We also did THIS ONE.

[Noose]

John, the IRRA website has 2 articles on how to build. Also a list of Tools of the Pros.

[RomanK]

Simple solution to satisfy "intent" . Why not mandate that all participants "MUST" build their own chassis.

Even though I don't have the time, patience, desire, nor probably the skill to produce some of the pieces of art I see being raced by you guys, I think that what you are doing is pretty cool yet somewhat elitist. That's ok, nothing wrong with creating your own niche and it's your club, and your rules but sometimes it seems that the rules get bent a bit depending on who wants to play. By using the word "intent" without actually defining same seems like a great way to facilitate rule making on the fly. Some very similar things have happened with the USRA and other organizations over the years, must just be the nature of the beast.

I believe Rudy read your rules as written and developed a chassis that met the letter of those rules, alas, it was a bit farther than you wanted to go so "intent" came in pretty handy.

Not trying to be a horses ***, just pointing out what I see from a point of view of someone that's been around all the years that you guys were not.

Keep up the great work!!

[slotcarone]

I think we all need to keep in mind the fact that the chassis that this topic is about has never been sent to the IRRA Board for approval.