371 replies to this topic

[Hworth08]

HERE is a link to Chris Chan's car that "tested" innovation in 1967. And NO drop arm.

[Rick]

There is no defense against what Josh and Mark wrote, they are right. I think you have to be a boomer to see what the majority see. If retro would go to that kind of kit, I would look for races where there are more traditional type frames being run. I have been down this road before and not going back.

Just as Ducati built a bike around the rulebook that dominated, Slick 7 used the rule book and built the perfect chassis kit. I try to make things that make it eaiser for the builder to build, I was against the bent up uprights* from day one and also the pin tube holders, but maybe I am too purist thinking.

Us old guys have no need to apologize for what we feel is correct and what we feel is not. It's just our opinion.

But I can assure you, and take this to the bank. Once that can of worms is opened up. Retro will disappear in less than a year as we know it. Slot cars has the uncanny ability to eat is own...

I have said enough and done with this thread, have at it. I will watch and see where it all ends.


* if you search back I posted a post about uprights in scratch building, right before the Warmack Kits hit the scene. My opinion then, my opinion now.

[TSR]

Just as Ducati built a bike around the rulebook that dominated, Slick 7 used the rule book and built the perfect chassis kit.

Perfect for some organizations but not legal in D3 as the rules clearly and specifically ban pillow block construction as well as multi-piece motor/axle brackets.

[The Bugman]

If I wanted something quick and easy to build, I would be racing HO cars.

I HATE THESE COMMENTS. Again someone who knows "absolutely nothing" of HO racing, sure there's no soldering, but otherwise, you must build the motor, you must setup your chassis to within 1/1000 of an inch for handling, you must find the correct shoe tension so you corner correctly, you still gotta cut and mount the body, and they're a lot smaller and harder than any 1/32 or 1/24 to do, not counting the painting part.

C'mon down sometime, John,and take your stock HO car and see how well it runs without REBUILDING IT ALL. Again down talking smack when you haven't a clue... GET A CLUE.

From an avid slot car racer in 1/24 & HO scales...

[Noose]

Hmm... fast forwarding... the year is 2046... 40 years later. There is a new thing in town. It's called Retro Flexis. You can only use actual chassis from the past. They now cost $1,000 on YouGottaPay. Bodies can't be painted because every kind of paint is a pollutant. Motors cannot have magnets as they too are bad for your health. You must use a controller, no electronic fingers allowed. Racing will held on the full moon only. Pre-registration is a must and only be done telepathically.

Enjoy what we have... it could be worse.

[John Streisguth]

I HATE THESE COMMENTS. Again someone who knows "absolutely nothing" of HO racing, sure there's no soldering, but otherwise, you must build the motor, you must setup your chassis to within 1/1000 of an inch for handling, you must find the correct shoe tension so you corner correctly, you still gotta cut and mount the body, and they're a lot smaller and harder than any 1/32 or 1/24 to do, not counting the painting part.

C'mon down sometime, John,and take your stock HO car and see how well it runs without REBUILDING IT ALL. Again down talking smack when you haven't a clue... GET A CLUE.

For your information, I do know about HO cars, to the extent of being involved with UFHORA National Championship races as well as local club racing. I also managed a fifth place at the 1996 HOPRA Nats in Poly Mod.

So maybe you should "get a clue" and not judge where other people are coming from unless you know who they are and what they have done.

[Hworth08]

Hmm... fast forwarding... the year is 2046... 40 years later. You must use a controller, no electronic fingers allowed. Racing will held on the full moon only.

Hey Noose,

How can we depend on YOU to make a good/fair chassis decision after your post? 40 years from now will be the year 2049!

Where can a person buy an electronic finger? I know there are controllers that provide a third eye.

Used to love the full moon nights in 1:1 racing. Track officials allowed most any driving, a good night for pay-backs.

And just joking of course. Except the full moon nights.

[Pablo]

OK all you HO fighters out there, I have a message for you:
When you make a comment that offends someone, just say "I'm Sorry" and move on. Instead of trying to fight.
That's all it takes for us to be friends.
We are communicating, that's what is so great about the WWW. 15 pages of communication, it's a good read. I do not agree with the theory that bickering scares off potential enthusiasts. I think it's healthy, and it shows passion.

[Dave Crevie]

I am fairly new to this "retro" class, and very new to this blog, so I probably don't have the right to comment on the new chassis
submissions. One thing I can tell you is that I scratchbuilt my first slot car in 1961 while visiting relatives in LA, and slot racing was really catching on. This was an all piano wire car with a Pittman padlock style model train motor. It was a cobbled-up mess, but I was only 11 years old, and I did the best I could. I built a lot of slot cars between then and when I first quit slot racing about 1966. I don't remember there being any "exact" construction restaints back then for scratchbuilt cars.

My stance on the kit chassis is that if it is simple enough to build, more racers will get involved. The Slick 7 chassis is far too
complex for a first time builder. The JK and Ron Thomas kits are quite simple to build. I have lots of JK chassis, built in every
configuration I can dream up. I can build one in less than two hours, and certainly a novice could build one in five. I recently built
a Ron Thomas chassis, and it was likewise easy to build. I have also scratchbuilt several retro cars, so I am capable of doing either, but the kits save cutting time, and it has been fun trying different things with them. Let's give the beginners a break, and keep the simple kits legal.

Also, the backbone of the Slick 7 chassis constitutes a pivot point in my opinion. There may not be an actual hinge, but the motor box rotates about this axis regardless.

Well, I've said more than I should. But that is my opinion.

Dave

[Mopar Rob]

I am fairly new to this "retro" class, and very new to this blog,

Welcome to Slotblog, Dave.

Since you can put them together in two hours want to build some for me? That way I can race more often and not feel the guilt of perpetually borrowing your cars.

[Hworth08]

Hi Dave and welcome,

Actually the Slick 7 frame, if like the other EDM cut frames, are quite a bit more simple to assemble and the finished frame is MUCH more likely to be properly aligned even if built without a jig. The slots and holes will be in the correct location. I DO wonder if the S7 frame is cut for 13/16th tires or what may be a more European market sized tires.

Does this "cross the line"? Well, that's what this 15 pages of discussion are about. I believe for a Retro division probably yes, the frame is too "fancy". But if other kits are allowed, then I'd be inclined to allow the Slick 7.

Half of one, six dozen of another.

[tonyp]

Not in Retro East. LOL....

[Noose]

As Justone Willlsooon said..."Guaranteeeeeed"

[TSR]

What would stop it is a single line added to the chassis construction rule:

"chassis rails must be located on each side of the motor and cannot converge further than lines determined by motor width."

That would put a stop to all these fake Eurosport chassis masquerading as "retro", that have NO place in retro racing.
I know that for one, I will be fighting this battle and that of changing the design of other fake "flexi" chassis that also have no business being called "retro" just because they are made of brass rather than stamped steel.

[Larry Mattingly]

I agree with Mark 100%...

The rules should be the SAME for kit and scratch-built cars...

I am very much in favor of taking Retro back a step or two, as suggested by P.

I stated and proposed LAST FEB. that the IRRA needed to place limits on chassis construction... including the design of center line and tri-pod cars. To me, none of these chassis are 'RETRO'.

If you recall, I was shouted down then as a 'gloom and doomer', 'not a problem'. Can't remember if that one was labled as a 'hafe (sic) baked' idea...

One year later we have controversy because a manufacturer wants to release something, that while not retro, meets the intent of the rule book.

I am in support of P and Mark. Take the 'gray' out of the rule book, and 'define' what true 'Retro' really is.

This style of racing does NOT need 'technology', 'creative thinking', or 'cutting edge'. Period.

LM

[Dave Reed]

Just to clear up what was said last Feb. LARRY, IT WAS ABOUT ANGLEWINDERS. You are now crying about some sort of brass Eurosport. .... The IRRA has RULES FOR ANGLEWINDERS, and they should have rules against FAKE RETRO EUROSPORTS... And as far as gloom and doom, that is all you post about... You are the one that puts out all the hafe baked ideas so you might as well learn to LIVE WITH IT!... PS: I AGREE WITH THE BOD AND NO ONE ELSE HOW ABOUT YOU.

[tonyp]

Mark works for me.

[Mark Misegadis]

Personally I think its too late to outlaw this chassis if folks find it not to be desirable or within the intent. As an organizer who has written many rules for 1-1 and toy racecars the bottom line here is that you have to ask some basic things. Lets expand here.

1) Quantification: Can I quantify what I want to enforce?
***This is not an opinion or paradigm. It is a definition often paired with a measurement that is specific enough so that there is no wiggle room.

Here is an example with 1-1 cars that currently resides in a rule for a national pro racing series that in no way is clear and gets a lot of folks confused and subsequently fired up.

“The firewall can be modified to the extent necessary, and for alternate components.”

Guys like me cut a hole in the firewall and push the engine back through it for engine setback.


Back to toy racecars:

Motor Bracket: This entire 3 sided motor bracket thing has always been vague. There is nothing that states the purpose or direction of each of the sides. There is nothing that says you cannot “Exceed” the rule and have 4 sides. It was based on a paradigm that was not defined but rather assumed. “Everyone knows that a 3 sided motor bracket is…..Right?”

Pillow Blocks: Everyone I think assumes that these are neat little lasercut dealios that you stick in a slot and solder to the chassis. What if you have something that is the exact same shape but its folded… well then that is not a pillow block. “How do you figure that?” There were D3 cars that ran in 06 with folded pillow block front axle mounts. They looked fine to me. Some little guy took a lot of photos and posted articles on the web exclaiming how cool they were. I agreed. This is what the JK chassis was based on and it is legal.

Now you add these two together along with opinions and the question is: Can a 3 sided motor bracket be soldered together or, Is is required that it be folded.

I can tell you that I have built them from scratch both ways and when they were complete they were still a 3 sided “U” shaped motor bracket. The only difference is the path that I took to get there.

In fact a good example that might scramble everyones noodle:
When some of us were still scratchbuilding in a void and everyone else had either not rediscovered slot cars or were racing stamped steel cars we used the REH 3000 motor bracket. This is what was available . A good friend of mine visited a shop in Austrailia and came back with a “copy” of this bracket that was lasercut in 3 pieces that you would solder together. Pretty cool and if I had ever ran out of the REH bracket.. you can be assured that I would have used these. When they are assembled they look like twins.

The intent of the rules was for the chassis to be scratchbuilt from a specified list of materials that were easily obtainable and easy to work with.

If anything was to be manufactured by methods that were “costly” to the average Joe they had to be available for anyone.

This chassis would be available to anyone.

Lets allow it or we will have to outlaw more chassis that are already running.

I will still build chassis from scratch but I will own at least one of these.

Mark Misegadis

[JerseyJohn]

Im in agreement also Mark! ALL of the kit cars run in a Kit car class and let the builders build for Can am,GTC & F-1.

Jersey John