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#201 Duffy

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 09:21 PM

...No more responses, please, we have an Eldon mill.
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#202 slotbaker

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 09:27 PM

What a relief...........
:)

Steve King


#203 dc-65x

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 10:02 PM

I still don't know what an "Eldon motor" is :blink: . Is it a, what are they called, a 13D Mabuchi like in the Monogram Midgets :unsure: ?

Duffy, just so you know, you can make a full side winder with a Mabuchi 16d (like a Russkit 23) and using tires no taller than 1" with 1/16" track clearance.

But whatever you come up with this is sounding like fun. Carry on! We could try for 3000 slot cars :shok: :D

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#204 Duffy

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 10:33 PM

I still don't know what an "Eldon motor" is :blink:

Sorry! It's a cut-down regular 16D. So it fits inside Reeeeely narrow Lost Cause cars.

But whatever you come up with this is sounding like fun. Carry on! We could try for 3000 slot cars :shok: :D

We'd need to find a source for a LOT of wheels--got anybody in mind, dc?...

I ust did the math: 3000 over what, 40 years? Wouldn't the faces tend to blend together after a while?

When Chamberlain (NOT that one!) published his memoir with the "10k ladies" reference, he was currently on Levis (iirc) ads; prompting a local radio host to ask, "--Wait: these are the pants worn by the guy who made love to ten thousand women? --When did he have time to PUT ON PANTS??..."

Back to your regularly-scheduled blather.

Duffy
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#205 Prof. Fate

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 01:39 PM

Hi

The back story, then and now, I build cars for fun that won't either be legal for current racing (EVER!) or competitive. Thus, the "Lost Cause". Mike's Lotus started with me talking about doing a jaildoor 11 and 7 in the day just for the fun of the car.

I think this is part of Steube's withdrawl. In that there are fun builds and then there is "RACY".

I think Mike want's to do a sidewinder that is 2" wide and all "period".

In the day, I often built frankenmotors out of the useless Eldon 6 volt short can motor. The magnets SUCK and need to be replaced, and the endbell SUCKS as does the arm in the motor. So, I didn't use any part but the short can.

I did a lot of diddling. Tipping the can up on its side for a gear mesh, drilling a hole THROUGH the magnet as an axle carrier and so on..........for 1/32s with the smaller tires.

The thing is that babbling like this with Mike gets him all gooey about another hopeless project!

Mike wasn't sure he could just cut down an SP500 can and get it straight. As his day job proves he has the "chops" to do this, I merely suggested that he start with the eldon can. Unnecessary, he has that skill and tools.

Won't be legal for anything.

Some years ago, Larry Shepard and I started babbling about another uncompetitive idea involving scale race cars. For a few years, we would meet at the convention for a personal race between just us to do cars that should be done but wouldn't because of "racyiness".

Fate
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#206 Duffy

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 08:46 PM

I think Mike want's to do a sidewinder that is 2" wide and all "period".

...Not just now. Not 2" wide, and as yet I just don't have "period" to DO. Ohh, I'll accumulate, I suppose, but it's gonna be a while before I start thinking of my collection of this odd bit and that rare found thing as any less than a treasure of single gems, each and all PRECIOUS and above my clumsy building.

Mike wasn't sure he could just cut down an SP500 can and get it straight. As his day job proves he has the "chops" to do this, I merely suggested that he start with the eldon can. Unnecessary, he has that skill and tools.

Skill and tools yes, vision NO--

--and that would just take sitting down and tearing the living heart out of this poor helpless motor and hoisting it up to the sun & examining it in all its eviscerated nakedness, THEN I'll understand, THEN I can start messing about and building up.

But, good little Primate as I am, I need the 3D visuals in my brain; and Fate hears my "I don't get it yet, drops the yet and kindly offers an alternative to keep me going, inspiration-bound.

Now, I'm still not convinced that this stock SP500 (1.335" wide w/o drive shaft) wouldn't fit inside my, ohhh say, Aston Martin DBR1 at 2.545" wide. Figuring 3/8" tyres, and if I was hard-pressed I'd fix the spur to the wheel--I bet I can jam this in. I'll look, when I have a waking moment again.

Duffy
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#207 Duffy

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:20 PM

..Okay, except: further study of pictures of the real car show the fenders overhanging the tyres at least 2" per side. There goes 5/16" or so.
Aston_Martin_DBR1sm.jpg
Look, this is bench-building and utterly worthless.. I gotta tear into some gear and see how stuf REALLY fits. More later.

Duffy
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#208 Howmet TX

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 04:43 AM

O Duffster- you're thinking yourself into a blind. Just do it! Use a 16D can with the plain bearing- those 'caged' bearings get in the way a bit. Pinning the spur gear to the wheel works fine and saves lots of space. I built a 1/32 scale Lotus 19 that way a while ago- with closed rear fenders. Straight sidewinder for full cockpit detail. Mind you, it was a Mabuchi S can, but there's tons of room for a 16D in that Aston.

We have much to do! the Lost Causes Worlds is scheduled for Feb 30th in Twickenham. Your invitation is in the post.

John Dilworth


#209 Duffy

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 05:33 AM

We have much to do! the Lost Causes Worlds is scheduled for Feb 30th in Twickenham. Your invitation is in the post.

Woo Hoo!! Tell you what, I'll pay my own way, you supply the 3000 women. No, wait, I'll bring MY woman, you pay the fare. --No, that won't work, why would she want to be in a whole room full of guys like ME? How 'bout...hmm...I must think some more...

Duffy
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#210 Howmet TX

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 05:49 AM

No no no! Too much hairsplitting! The Lost Causes Worlds is CANCELLED! My lawyers have been arrested. I mean informed!

John Dilworth


#211 don.siegel

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 05:53 AM

Not to worry, it has been rescheduled for Paris, February 14, 2010, at the Stade de France. We'll be under the left goal post, in a scrum around a 1/32 Lotus 11, sidewinder of course...

Vive la Cause Perdue!

Don

#212 Prof. Fate

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 01:33 PM

Hi

Mike, i sent you a motor, tear it apart. there is nothing you can destroy that I cannot replace. Those old first Gen motors are not rare or anything.

JUST DO IT.

And you need a 36d for that Aston martin...making a sidewinder with a 36d needs even MORE room.

When you get the Eldon...... We will start with the SP500 or whatever it was I gave you, and I will walk you through the build, THEN we will do the eldon. The eldon will need a lot more to make it a "blue king" motor.

Grin.

Fate
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#213 Duffy

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 05:49 PM

Mike, i sent you a motor, tear it apart. there is nothing you can destroy that I cannot replace. Those old first Gen motors are not rare or anything.JUST DO IT.

Jeez, what a hardass!! Ohhh--KAY.....
DeadMotor_no1.jpg
There! HAH! Old Technology, you are now MIKEY-MEAT!! Y'likin' me now?? Say my NAME, motor! OhhhhhYah, I'm gonna breeze through this refurb, I got it decked, it's gonna be soooo...oh, wait--oh no...oh NO...I forgot which side of the can the GREEN magnet came out of! Damn, what now? O tragic impulsiveness, O I am fortune's fool...

I'll just curl up here for a while.

Duffy
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#214 Prof. Fate

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 02:17 PM

Hi

It doesn't matter!

You will not be using the stock arm here. This sp500 won't get out of its own way on your local track! I gave you a mild rewind of 110/32 that is period and aftermarket (1ohm). Still mild, but all that endbell will handle.

Photograph as you go

First, take the better arm and spin it in a drill or something to see if it got bent during its cross country trip. You have the skills to straighten it.

2)While spinning it, polish the stack it will make it look "cool" and then true the com.

3)Doing a mild arm gives us some options that a hotter arm doesn't. But first, lets epoxy this. Check the wind, check the soldered tabs, then do a light epoxy around the back of the com and front of the stack.

4) Let cure for 24 hours, our com isn't good enough that I want to bake it.

While waiting, check the original arm for "straight".

5)If straight, we can use it to start the set up. In this case, just put the arm in and hand fit and hold the endbelll in place. No magnets yet. You are looking for play front to back. First, is the bushing rigid in the can? if not, strip and solder in place. With endbell held in place, there should be ca .010 gap between the front of the endbell with spacer and the back face of the bushing. Fix the endbell bushing if it isn't straight and the arm should spin nicely in the beast.

6) back to pieces. If this were hotter, we would need a better endbell AND we would be pullet proofing it, but this step is later for a later project!

When the arm cures and you spin balance it and assemble tomarrow you will be running a typical good motor from about 64.

7)Now we will work on the can. Presuming you got it all straight. Again taking the arm, put the magnets briefly in the can. You want to again, just hand fit the endbell over the arm. NOW you are checking that the magnets are parallel. Notice that the back of the can has these tabs in the back that prevent the magnet from going too far in. Not always right.

In this case, you are looking for the arm stack to be centered in the middle of the magnet. This part is easy. the arm should not be able to be pushed BACK towards the can bushing more than .004 and at least .001. Move the magnets into position as necessary and mark WHERE they are to be.

8)Now we do airgap, this is the space between the arm stack and the face of the magnets. This should be 007 to 010. The simplest, and the way we usually did it in the day, was wrap the stack in a single layer of ordinary masking tape. It should fit snugly. If not, fabricate shims to move the magnets towards the stack.

NOW YOU BUILD THE MOTOR by putting everything back, but now with all the spacers and shims. If the slop in front is more than 005, spacers in front.

Putting on the brush springs, later we will do it differently with a hotter arm. This is for now. The springs .... The short end needs to be bent so that it fits FLAT in the slot on the brush. And the long arm bent so that there is about 120degree ark between the two arms.

TA DA 1964 in your hands.

It should rev up nicely at about 45,000 rpm. Geared say, 9/28 on your local racewas will run out of steam in about 25 feet.

After playing with this lotus, jaildoor frame and old motor...we will work on another failed racer!

Fate
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#215 Duffy

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 06:59 PM

It doesn't matter!

...and, gentlemen, therein lies the whole&entire charm of Slot Racing.

Fate & I joke about bench time as "getting in touch with our Inner OCD Child"--well, except that, owing to this & that in my life, I spent a long interval away from my hobbies as my Outer Child grew up and procreated, and am only now returning to catch up.

There's a lot of catching up to do. The kid that was just starting to win races and go somewhere in '65, the one that went to Oakland and became a Jazz Honkey, had all the sensibilities of a builder and racer and none of the tools and precious little skills; now, Nature's done with this ex-jazzman toolmaker with vasectomy & presbyopia, and he can allow some time to reclaiming misspent youth and he can by damn MAKE the tools.

Which makes me a great test subject for this motor-working thing.

So, here's the deeliolio: we're gonna spin off a thread about the back-to-the-bone basics of motors, starting with this tame little gray can done by this tame large gray person. I run the cleanup & refurb per Rocky's instructions, I add my tyro's viewpoint and input, Rocky tries to catch any bits he's so used to doing that he forgets to mention--

--And if we do it right we end up with an overview of the process that could stand for anybody who ever thought he'd Do a motor.

Look for a first installment appearing soon.

Duffy
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#216 BWA

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 11:26 PM

Now, if I can just find some period correct wheel inserts...

I have some if you still need some.
Al Penrose BWA (Batchelor Without Arts, Eh!)

#217 dc-65x

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 05:24 PM

No no no! Too much hairsplitting! The is CANCELLED! My lawyers have been arrested. I mean informed!


Just in case the Lost Causes Worlds take place in the future, here is my entry into the GP Class....a "Benz-O-Liner" :shok: the original "unfair advantage!" I await gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands :laugh2: ;)

Posted Image

It will be based on this original Shark Mercedes W196 Streamliner GP body that the Viceroy of Vacuum, Homet TX will be repoping. Also shown are Russkit wire wheel inserts, a driver’s head I'm not too happy with (must look for a earlier style) and a neato Ulrich decal sheet:

Posted Image

Here is my gathering of parts for the project:

Posted Image

We have a NOS Pittman DC-65-6 volt motor, Weldun 56T spur gear, modern Sonic 15T pinion gear, modern 1/8" ball bearings, our reproduction Russkit wheels, 40mm "German" tires for the rear, Revell Dunlop’s for the front, a Cox guide, braid and lead wire and my own design rear axle bracket based loosely on a Kemtron part.

I need to get a revised front motor bracket and the build can begin............

Onward

Rick Thigpen
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There's much more to come...


#218 Pete L.

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 05:29 PM

Rick,

That's an awesome car, I have a 1/32 scale version of it that I've been threatening to put together for a few years now. Your build could very well serve as inspiration. And a big THANK YOU to John for all of his efforts !
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#219 Duffy

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 07:11 PM

Well, Rikky lays the thunder down and I can't steal it. But I'll follow along--

Been moving little bits&bods around on the table like Scrabble tiles all afternoon, and this pattern keeps coming up. The mill and the fancy laser bracket parts come from Thigpen, as well as--well, heck, just about all that'll go into this roller. I'll describe as it goes on.
LCKINGCO1.jpg

I can get 1/2" wide tyres under the King Cobra if I push it, so I'm gonna try that out. Later in the month I may fire up my tyre lathe and do some real rubber, but I want to try the new Ortmann-copy stuff first. We'll see.

And since we're also tooling up for Fossil GP, I'm putting this one together (there'll be a couple proper FRONT-engine models comin' up real soon, but I'm waiting on some more shells). Always wanted a Lotus 25. I am rebelling against the Jaildoor rule that states all details must be attached to the body--look, I'm gullible but also handsome, I'm tacking those rods to brass here & that's that. Stay tuned.
LCLOTUS1.jpg


Who's next? & should we set these under Lost Cause subheadings or just get all confusin'?

Duffy
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#220 Pete L.

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 08:14 PM

fellas,


I'm in...I'll gather some stuff and post the pics for your perusal tomorrow. A GP build as well ? hmmmm
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#221 Duffy

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 08:50 PM

A GP build as well ? hmmmm

Well, as mentioned elsewhere, we're collecting a buncha 40s-50s GP cars for repop--newest donation is a Merc W163 from some knowitall in Utah--so I'll keep you in the loop.

Happy to see there's a handful of stalwarts dedicated to doing cars for no significant purpose whatsoever. Appeals to the aging hipster in me.

Duffy



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#222 Howmet TX

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 04:05 AM

The Dude abides in Twickenham; Hipsville UK.

Here's my Scrabble board.

Posted Image

A couple of blank tiles in here. Russkit Lang Cooper repop, but no guide or inserts yet.

Posted Image

Moulds for the Vanwall and Connaught curing ready for the vac table. Double word score.

Posted Image

Or should I keep with the front-engined ethos? Cobra Coupe with modified - I hope, improved, nose. Double letter score.

Posted Image

Or this little peach- my current favourite, donated to the Bodies for Beer research and cloning laboratories by Don Siegel, esq., an Elva MkVII. Bingo! Triple word score!

Posted Image

The same little honey from a different angle.

Posted Image

Or should I go sub-compact with the Penske Zerex Spl.? That must be an X- 8 point difficulty rating...

Who knows where the Dude will go? Just checking in to see what condition my condition is in, y'know?

John Dilworth


#223 Duffy

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 05:42 AM

That Daytona Coupe really ties the room together, man.
Michael J. Heinrich
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#224 Howmet TX

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 06:53 AM

Easy on the kahlua, Duffster!

John Dilworth


#225 Prof. Fate

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 12:02 PM

Hi

Well, some of the stuff in the "care package" are one off-irreplaceables that I would like back sometime after they get cloned.

My friend John Bacon did a Mercedes 300slr for ME with Jenks and moss in it. Too cool not to copy, but there is nostalgia for my old friend involved in the original.

If that works for you.

My cheater killer ap is this! MilleMiglia wheels that I cast silicone on in the day...you are all LOST......assuming they hold together.

These projects are kinda hard for me. I was prowling through the boxes looking for something for Duffy and keep stumbling across "old friends". In the day, ONE motor was a budget buster. I had ONE DC65...and I wore it out going from car to car and then rewound and blew it up! And found the remains....and realized I had a NOS one that I had been planning on restoring the old car with.

Sheesh.

I never saw the 1/24 Shark Merc 196 streamliner that I remember. What I was doing in the day was a series of Lancia Ferraris! My first in 60 was the Strombecker, and in 63 a series of Dubro based cars. We all know that the Streamliner has zero chance against a Lancia!

Fate
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