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Jerry Hansen's 1966 Lotus 19 Chevy


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#51 havlicek

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 12:45 PM

Dang that's a great looking chassis Rick! It looks so...so..."automotive", no really! :wub: :)

-john
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#52 dc-65x

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 12:46 PM

I used my Rick's jig to make up the drop arm.........

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...........and install it in the chassis:

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The chassis is all finished:

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A few closeups:

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Time to tear apart that old Pittman motor :)
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#53 TSR

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 01:41 PM

Looks pretty so far. love the triangulation around the bracket... :)

#54 bosmeck

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 03:23 PM

a work of art brother!

amazing stuff :)
Chris Clark

#55 tonyp

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 03:50 PM

The winner & Still Champion!

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

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#56 dc-65x

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 05:02 PM

Thank you gentlemen :blush: . When three of the best think I'm on the right track, I'll forge onward for sure :) .

I tore my Pittman 6001 apart last night. I'll post pictures of the carnage tonight.

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#57 dc-65x

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 09:10 PM

Time to tear apart my old vintage race motor. It still runs strong but it vibrates like crazy and the magnets are loose in the can. Here it bares its soul:

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Mine is a later motor as it already has the hot armature (.4 ohms) shown in this ad:

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Here's a comparison of my arm on the left with a new 6001X arm on the right:

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Hey John Havlicek. This arms got an insullator in the middle of the stack :unsure: :

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I also want to fix the bone head move I did to melt the brush spring, plungers and mar this brush plate:

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Next up it's "Mod City" for the old "Sellersville Slayer" :laugh2:

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#58 Horsepower

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 09:30 PM

WHERE in God's name did you get that replacement arm? :shok: I've been trying to find one of those since time immemorial (whatever that is)! I didn't think they ever came out with it, even though the adds were in every magazine at the time. That IS the 6001X, right?
Oops, by the way, nice build! I've never had one (Pittcan) apart before.
Gary Stelter

#59 dc-65x

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 09:47 AM

Hi Gary,

I found this one on Ebay a few months ago. It's an early hot "competition" arm with the "X" designation in the part number. I've got another one in later packaging that's designated a "6 Volt". I'll show pictures of both and check out their ohm readings and eyeball their timing etc tonight.

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#60 mdiv

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 12:08 PM

Lookin' great, Rick! :)

Mikey

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#61 dc-65x

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 09:33 PM

Thanks Mikey :)

I dug up my other packaged 6001 armature. I thought since it was a "6 volt" it would be the newer bad a$$ replacement arm in the ad I posted. Wrong again :blink: . Check this thing out:

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It's a double wind with the wires to the comm in sacrificial readiness to throw themselves to the magnet Gods without the competition models "retainer ring":

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The timing is also reversed from the "competition armature"

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The "competition arm" reads .4 ohms and the "6 volt" reads .6 ohm.

Gary,

Now I know why you've been looking for a "competition" style arm! :D

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#62 havlicek

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 06:02 AM

Neat motor/arms Rick!

Hey John Havlicek. This arms got an insullator in the middle of the stack


Yeah I saw that and I'll tell you what, it defies logic to think that they simply did this to decrease the rotational mass of the arm as was suggested in another thread. Substituting one lam for a fiber insulator isn't going to change things significantly performance-wise. If they DID do it for that reason, then they were being silly and probably never tested it...OR they did test it and did it that way only because it was "percieved" to be lighter/faster by the "market" :) I tend to think that a company like Pittman whose stuff was solidly engineered had some other reason...but I guess anything's possible :blink: :unsure:

-john
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#63 Prof. Fate

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 12:18 PM

Hi

A few years ago, aftermarket group 10 "stock" arms came from a couple people with thin groove longetudinally down the stack purportedly for the same purpose. I don't say any of these assertians are true, just reporting what was said!

I agree, it doesn't make sense!

As we have both observed about these motors, lots of "improvements" have been done over the years and I haven't seen a decent way to test. It always devolves to the track.

fate
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#64 tonyp

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 01:24 PM

John I bet it was something like the arm would not fit in a jig of some sort and a full lamination made it too long so they opted for a fiber.

In RC we leave spaces in the stack to get around the spec rules that called for a minimum amout of wire length for 27 turns. The wire had to be 62" and 27 turns so a short stack was out of the question. It makes a difference where the spaces are put in armature performance. The motors are way less eficient but put out a lot more watts and are faster which in spec racing is a big advantage.

We also made a blank with a slot down the center. The real reason was simply to make it easier to drill balance.

A lot of the 60's,"Technology" was hit and miss. People would try anything they could think of no mattery how crazy it was. A lot was simply a gimmick to make your stuff look different and trick.

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#65 havlicek

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 03:14 PM

Hi Tony,

I hope you haven't lost your accent already...wear it loud and proud down there :) I bet you're right and that there's some mechanical (rather than performance) reason for the fiber in the stack.

A lot of the 60's,"Technology" was hit and miss. People would try anything they could think of no mattery how crazy it was. A lot was simply a gimmick to make your stuff look different and trick.


10-4, I miss those days :)

-john
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#66 Horsepower

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 05:12 PM

This is STILL too much fun! This is one of the most "different" builds I've seen. Man, I love those old Pittman cans!
Gary Stelter

#67 dc-65x

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 07:30 PM

I'm having fun too Gary :) . I balanced the arm on my Tradeship static balancer. The heavy pole swung down so fast I couldn't believe it. No wonder the motor was buzzing like crazy when rev'd. Here's the finished arm:

Posted Image

Next I worked on the endbell. In lots of the old "Hop Up" articles in the period magazines they'd drill holes in things.....anything! If there was room for a hole, it got a hole :laugh2: . Not to be out done, I decided to put a "comm inspection hole" in my endbell.

I thought I show how and accurately located and sized hole is created with a milling machine. But first, a DISCLAIMER:

I know there are experienced hobbyist, machinists and tool and die makers (Hi Duffy :wave: ) looking in. This is just one method that works for me. And, yes, the part could have been held in the vise differently. But this was fast and easy. In my own shop I live a little more on the edge than I did when I machined for "the man". Double And yes, the darn adjustable parallel under the endbell is rusted.....crud :angry: :angry: . I cleaned and applied WD-40 after a chassis build but not good enough. I guess that's why Scotch Brite Pads were invented....but I digress.

So here is the endbell in the milling machine vise. The gizmo in front of it is an edge finder. It happily spins as you move the endbell closer and closer......

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.........and when the bottom part jumps off center you've located the edge of the part:

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Then the milling machines adjustable dials are turned the correct distance to locate the hole from the edge you just "edge found". With the endbell located exactly where the hole should go a pilot hole is drilled with a stiff special purpose drill called a center drill:

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A pilot hole helps keep the standard drill from wandering off center:

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Drills often don't leave that nice a finish on the sides of the hole. I finished this one off with and end mill. Since the end mill cuts on the sides too it acts like a boring operation and insures the hole will be on center even if the drill (which just cuts on its tip) did somehow wander off:

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Finally a countersink makes a an nice deep chamfer to make the hole purdy:

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The finished hole......hey what's that nut doing in there :blink:

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I drilled out the brass rivet that held the brush plate on so I could flip it over and hide the burn marks my bone head move put in it. Here are all the parts for the modified endbell:

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I used a 2-56 flat head stainless steel screw, nut and some red thread locker to hole the brush plate on:

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The finished endbell:

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Time to epoxy the magnets into the can..........

Onward
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#68 Jairus

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 07:55 PM

How fast do you wear out one of those Dremel wire brush wheels there Rick? :)


Just asking.... beautiful work! I have done the same thing regarding the brush holder. Sometimes replacing a broken one with screw... but I threaded the end bell, which eliminates the nut. But beautiful work!
(I need a mill!)

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#69 dc-65x

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 07:59 PM

Hi Jairus,

I love Dremel wire wheels :laugh2: .

If the hole in the endbell wasn't already so big I'd have just tapped the thing. But, I'd have to use a No.4 screw and it was SO big looking I went with a smaller No.2 screw and a nut.

Yes, you do need a mill ;) .

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#70 Jairus

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 08:06 PM

Crazy idea.... but why did you not flip the endbell over and drill and tap the other side? Then you could have milled that first side with the "comm view" hole?

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#71 dc-65x

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 10:10 PM

Jairus, that's not a crazy idea at all. I'd have to drill another hole for the motor bracket but that's no big deal. I'd have to counter sink the other end bell mounting hole too. It's already been "screwed", so to speak, with a self taping scrrew but may be able to accept a counter sunk No. 2 machine screw. Without checking it might work. Doing this would have eleminated using a nut which would be more elegant. I like elegant :) . Sharing information is a good thing thanks :)

Onward

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#72 Duffy

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 11:59 PM

I know there are experienced hobbyist, machinists and tool and die makers (Hi Duffy :wave: ) looking in.

(Hi yerself Rick :wave: )

We "Experienced" toolish guys have a wise old saying: "What Works, Works."

Duffy
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#73 havlicek

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 09:12 AM

I balanced the arm on my Tradeship static balancer. The heavy pole swung down so fast I couldn't believe it.


Hey Rick,

Did you check the shaft for runout? Usually when an arm is that far out, it's the shaft. The most significant part of the weight equation is the stuff farthest from the axis of rotation (shaft), like the actual laminations and the magnet wire. If the winding is pretty close to the same length on each pole, the lams use usually pretty close on their own since they're just stamped metal. Another VERY cool project!

-john
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#74 dc-65x

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 05:45 PM

Hey Duffy, I might get mine built before you :D

John,

I put the arm in a 3/32 collet in my Sherline lathe and ran it slowly. There is a slight run out. I slid the arm in and out of the collet and ran it at different positions. The run out appeared the same. It almost looked as if the shaft was straight but the laminations were running out :blink: . I put the thing together and it does run much smoother than it did before balancing.

Anyway, here it is going together. Epoxy everywhere! Just like making a mud pie when you were a kid:

Posted Image

Here it's all cleaned up. I removed the ball bearing shields so I could flush them out. I didn't have a jig motor to build the chassis with. The motor got covered with acid flux and I had to scrub it with soap and water. I think it looks cooler now too:

Posted Image

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The finished motor:

Posted Image

Here's the bottom showing the flat bottom screw that replaced the sheet metal screw that hung down 1/16":

Posted Image

I modified a Simco brush spring to fit to give it a try:

Posted Image

I broke it in at 6V for 20 minutes and it draws about .7 amps.

Time to put the whole thing together :)
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#75 havlicek

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 05:13 AM

It almost looked as if the shaft was straight but the laminations were running out

:blink: Wow...could it be that the lams were formed a little off with one side being larger and they assembled them all with that side on the same pole? Anyway, static balancing can make up for some of that and it sounds like the Tradeship balancer does a fine job. The motor looks sweet as heck too, typical "Thigpen Bulletproof"!

-john
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#76 dc-65x

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 07:22 AM

I don't know John, that doesn't seem to make sense either. It's probably just a little "not straight" :laugh2: . Next time I'll get brave and put a dial indicator on the thing and try bending it. I should mess with a junk arm first ;) .

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#77 Prof. Fate

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 11:43 AM

Hi

Memories, you are triggering memories. In 63 with my first Pittman 196, I spent too much time chasing the spriing and "T" spacers around the bench while trying to work on the com. And gave up in disgust and went with the coil like you did. Oddly, the first time I saw it was on a MRRC open frame motor. And while the rest of the motor was unwonderufl (you thought Pittman magnets were Week), the spring was obviously the solution.

I only regretted that my 704s couldn't do it that way!

Fate
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#78 Quickcars

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 06:28 PM

RR24_FERRARI_206SP_3.jpg Great post and I really appreciate the Dino article. I'm trying to put together a running Dino now. I have a mint Dino chassis that I'm going to mount a resilient resin body to. Hopefully I won't screw it up and it'll look decent when I'm done.



Paul
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#79 Champion 507

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 01:39 AM

Rick,

You're hurting me. That motor is beautiful. I especially like the way you fixed the problem with the lower endbell screw with the countersunk one.

I have only had one of these and it was the bushing version...43 years ago. Wish I still had it. :cray:
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#80 dc-65x

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 09:12 AM

Hi Rocky,

Yes that Simco torsion spring is a zillion times easier to use than the stock coil spring and plungers. I also noticed on the power supply I could hear the rpm's increasing if I applied a little more tension than the stock stretched spring provided. With the Simco spring that doesn't happen.

You're welcome Paul. I liked the Dino article too. That's why posted the entire article instead of just the frame and motor bracket designs. Glad you enjoyed it :) .

Doug, Pittman 6001's are popular it seems. I see one for sale on Ebay from time to time for $75 :shok: . That would be a bargain at 1/3 the price :blink: . I see them in old junky cars at auction too. Keep your eyes peeled ;) .

Rick Thigpen
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#81 dc-65x

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 06:32 PM

These are the additional parts I used on the car:

Posted Image

Cox guide and super soft braid, Weldun gears, some ball bearings for the rear axle, our cloned Russkit standard width rear wheels for the front and mondo big K&B front tires :shok: . The sidewall detail of these "Stock Car Special" Goodyear's looks a lot like their "Blue Streak Sports Car Specials" tires used in the day. This is the look I'll be going for with my wheels, tires and wheel inserts:

Posted Image

I decided to make the fronts turn independently on the 1/8" axle. I want to be able to remove them without having to unsolder a retainer so I decided to lock one wheel on the axle with its set screw and let the one wheel and axle turn together. I soldered a retainer on the other end of the axle and that wheel spins freely by itself. So the wheel inserts will still fit down flush inside the wheel I cut a counterbore with Mr. Sherline:

Posted Image

Check out that sidewall detail. That sure looks better than foam fronts to my eyes :wub: ... it will probably won't handle as good though :unsure:

Posted Image

Posted Image

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Here's the Cox guide, Supersoft braid, and Superflex lead wire all hooked up...

Posted Image

... and the sweet-meshing Weldun 64P gears and ball bearings installed:

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All finished with assembly:

Posted Image

Posted Image

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I need to get the wheel inserts cut to fit and any other cosmetic stuff ready before the dreaded painting begins... :laugh2:

Onward...
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#82 Jairus

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 06:46 PM

Very nice!
:wub:

Ah... dreaded painting? :blink:
You are way better than you think, my friend.

Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

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Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#83 TSR

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 06:55 PM

As John Cleese would say in "Fawlty Towers", "vealy nice" ... :)

#84 dc-65x

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 07:46 PM

"Tank ou berry much" :D .

Rick Thigpen
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#85 TSR

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 07:55 PM

:laugh2:
That reminds me of the Japanese word for "tinplate", it's "Buriki", derived from the Dutch "Blik". Now you have to get there with your best Japanese accent, and thinking that "L" and "R" are very hard to distinguish in Japanese.
So it's "Blik", to "Bu-lik", to "Bu-Ri-k" to "Buriki"... Sounds like that "Lora T70" kit by Tamiya! :)

#86 Horsepower

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 08:21 PM

OK, I couldn't figure out how the braids were done so perfectly, but it looks now like the guide is an old type guide with brushes that have the old school copper loops at the ends, then bent perfectly and the motor wires soldered to them. :) The first picture I saw made me think there was some special construction. :laugh2: That's a great way to update the old school guide shoes. A very neat job on those and everything else on the build!
Gary Stelter

#87 mdiv

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 11:35 PM

Beeee-aaaaa-uuuuuu-tiful, Rick! :)

Mikey!

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#88 havlicek

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 06:35 AM

"No stone left unturned"... right down to the last subatomic particle, and the car pictured above is the result. :wub:

There's no one who makes it tougher on you, Rick, than... yourself :) If I had your talent, my head would explode. :laugh2: Beeeeeoooootiful!
John Havlicek

#89 mdiv

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 04:44 PM

I love going through this thread again and again and seeing all of Rick's beautiful pictures!

:wub:

Mike DiVuolo

 

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#90 dc-65x

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 09:33 PM

Thank you, guys. I've done something I think looks pretty cool to this Lotus Chevy. It's pretty basic really as I'm no modeler. But it's something that stands out in the pictures of the real car. I will finish that up this weekend and post more pictures... :)

Rick Thigpen
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There's much more to come...


#91 dc-65x

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 10:58 AM

Well, the new in the box Pittman 6001BB's have shown up on eBay again. Unfortunately, they are $75 each :shok: and three are currently available. I do not know the seller, I'm just providing information. So, if someone REALLY, REALLY wants one, here they are:

Pittman 6001BB Motors

Rick Thigpen
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#92 TSR

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 11:09 AM

That's almost as much as a blueprinted TSR D3! :laugh2:

#93 Horsepower

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 02:14 PM

He must be reading Slotblog! on a regular basis.
Gary Stelter

#94 TSR

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 03:20 PM

Gary,

All they have to do is look at other ePay auctions and slap a price on their stuff. :)

#95 Bill from NH

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 03:27 PM

Did you notice someone selling copies of your $15 book for $75 on ebay? When they didn't sell, they lowered the price to $69.95, and they aren't even autographed. :laugh2: :laugh2:

Bill Fernald
 

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#96 TSR

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 03:52 PM

I am continuously amazed at the prices announced for these books... I saw one on Amazon for $299.00 once! :laugh2:

Crazy. For anyone who wants one, they should pay no more than 35 bucks, tops. :)

#97 dc-65x

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 07:19 PM

OK, I couldn't figure out how the braids were done so perfectly, but it looks now like the guide is an old type guide with brushes that have the old school copper loops at the ends, then bent perfectly and the motor wires soldered to them. :) The first picture I saw made me think there was some special construction. :laugh2: That's a great way to update the old school guide shoes. A very neat job on those and everything else on the build!

Hi Gary,

Here's how I've been doing old style guides with screw on Cox Supersoft style braid:

Posted Image

I'm using REHco's continuation Cox style braid. They don't quite crimp all the braid in place and it can start coming undone:

Posted Image

So I solder it in place. Squeezing the braid with needle nose pliers keeps the solder from flowing down the braid where you don't want it:

Posted Image

As you can see from the picture below the real car has a bunch of "gizmos" hanging out the back. I think it makes the car look pretty awesome....like a little 4 cylinder sports racer with a big American V8 stuffed into it :unsure: . I guess because that's what it is :D .

So my Rick's Jig came through again to hold my "gizmo" hanger mount in place:

Posted Image

The chassis is ready to hang the "gizmos" on but I've got to make it first. Kit bashing time :laugh2: .

Posted Image

I used the blower from an AMT Double Dragster reissue model kit to mimic the transaxle. The oil cooler is a cut down radiator from a 1965 Ford Galaxy kit:

Posted Image

The exhaust pipes are made from aluminum tubing:

Posted Image

Here they are painted along with a solder up piano wire roll bar and brace:

Posted Image

Tomorrow I hope to cut the rear wheel inserts to fit, paint and install them and glue my "gizmos" on the chassis.

Onward...
  • hiline2 likes this

Rick Thigpen
Check out Steve Okeefe's great web site at its new home here at Slotblog:
The Independent Scratchbuilder
There's much more to come...


#98 Tex

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 10:41 PM

Aaawwww... this is gettin' GOOD!
Richard L. Hofer

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#99 Prof. Fate

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 01:10 PM

Hi,

I haven't looked at eBay in years. Got depressing!

Anyway, in the brief 26D period for me, I used 26D franken motors often using the Pittcan endbell! The first version of the 6001 wasn't that hot, my franken motors wee a lot hotter. I time during the period of just restoring my old cars to just play with, running motors that needed a rebuild every heat didn't make sense. HOWEVER, finding stock 26Ds was impossible. They were, 20 years ago, 75 bucks. But the 6001s were unknown and about 5 bucks.

So, I polled the franken motors and replaced them with stock Pittcans. Reliable as nails and almost as quick.

So, now, ironically, the Pittcans are impossibly expensive. I wonder, though, what 26D prices are doing!

Fate
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#100 typo156

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Posted 02 October 2009 - 03:41 PM

Clean work... and impressive. Could you post the photo of the rear of the car with its pitboard spoiler? I've never seen that one.

Any chance of seeing Bart Martin's BT8 Ford photos... hint, hint.
Patrick Galleguillos





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