90 replies to this topic

[Jacob Shiplet]

My concern is and always be... how do we keep it a true entry level class? In my opinion only newer racers should be allowed to race in it. The better drivers shouldn't be allowed to run off the newer racers. I wanted to see the class be controlled as to who or who couldn't run it based on what I just wrote.

So if we run off all of the newer racers, then how will we get the newer racers to move into the other classes? We won't.

Think about being a new racer and traveling to a track a hour away....getting your doors blown off..... are you going to spend the money and time to go back and do it all over again? Most will not.

But just remember.... the Retro Flexi class is there to get newer racers involved in what WE all are racing.... not another class for ALL of us to RACE in.

I still consider myself somewhat of a beginner. I have only raced in 5 races up to this point and have very little building experience to say the least. I have fun when I go, its not always about the racing. I think we need to make sure when racing that we keep the spirit of retro(having a good time) and helping each other out at the forefront. I am telling you from personal experience, had Rick and Mike not helped me out in the beginning, I would be done. Building isnt the easiest thing to do, especially jumping head first into this thing. I know many racers answer bystander questions for the most part. Just remember to check the attitudes at the door, we dont want first timers to see a bunch of a$$holes arguing with each other. I think this is going to be a great series and a lot of fun. Hopefully I will be able to make some more races.

[Gary Adams]

Mike and Ron, thank you for your well thought out replies, it is sincerely appreciated. I am confident that this coming year will be one of a lot of fun and excitement for all involved.

Maybe it was naivete on my part, but I had made an assumption, which is a terrible thing to do most of the time, that Retro Flexi was going to be for newcomers to the hobby, not current IRRA CanAm and F1 racers. I agree that allowing current series racers to run in Retro Flexi will kill off that portion of the program in a heartbeat, and be completely self-defeating in purpose. I would propose instituting a ban on any racers who have previously competed in this series with JK Spec, GT Coupe, F1, or CanAm cars.

I can understand from a racer's point of view the fun of driving the Flexi cars. But if that is your point, then build a RetroPro anglewinder for this season, and remember why we got away from inlines back in 1968!

[Larry Mattingly]

Now I am going to throw in my personal opinion.........................

In regards to the Retro Flex class in OVR, I did not want to run this class..... I was happy to have a series with just two classes being run in a day. F-1 and Can-Am.... the two "premier" IRRA classes.... that's all I wanted to see. There is nothing "retro" about flexi racing except the body used. But if Flexi racers can use what they already have to come to the races and then use that as a "springboard" into the other classes..... we have accomplished what we want to see happen.

Mike and Steve felt the need for a "entry level" class to be ran at the events and being all raceway run a flexi based class, Retro Flexi was a logical choice for this.

My concern is and always be... how do we keep it a true entry level class? In my opinion only newer racers should be allowed to race in it. The better drivers shouldn't be allowed to run off the newer racers. I wanted to see the class be controlled as to who or who couldn't run it based on what I just wrote.

So after much discussion, it was decided to run the Retro Flexi class and let it be open to all drivers.

While we want to see lots of new racers in Retro Flexi and then progressing into the other retro classes we are running, it is not our job to make the Flexi class the biggest class of the four we are running.

If we were to run Retro Flexi first class of the day...... EVERYONE would wind up racing Retro Flexi and possibly running off all of the newer racers. We already did that in regards to JK Spec.... it was open to everyone and it never grew or provided newer racers which was the concept of the JK Spec class to begin with.

So if we run off all of the newer racers, then how will we get the newer racers to move into the other classes? We won't.

Think about being a new racer and traveling to a track a hour away....getting your doors blown off..... are you going to spend the money and time to go back and do it all over again? Most will not.

To most of you who have already posted..... it makes no difference when Flexi is ran in the program...... if you want to run the class...you will no matter if it's first up or last.


But just remember.... the Retro Flexi class is there to get newer racers involved in what WE all are racing.... not another class for ALL of us to RACE in.

Good point...

The Penn-Ohio Series runs its Flexi-GT class first, and it draws the same racers who run F1 and Can-Am... Few, if any newbies.

And the same racers who win F1 and Can-Am also win the Flexi class... Any newbies that do show go with their heads handed to them...

The class is accomplishing zilch, zero, nada... Except creating a bigger payday for the track owner...

LM

[Ron Hershman]

Good point...

The Penn-Ohio Series runs its Flexi-GT class first, and it draws the same racers who run F1 and Can-Am... Few, if any newbies.



The class is accomplishing zilch, zero, nada... Except creating a bigger payday for the track owner...

LM

They would have the same results if they ran GTC couple class first in the day.

Everyone would use it as a warm up race prior to Can-AM and F-1

[Larry Mattingly]

You are correct, Sir...

LM

[Steve Deiters]

" Except creating a bigger payday for the track owner..."

LM
[/quote]


.......and the negative side of that is what?

[Rick]

IMO, enough series have tried to race Fexi under the guise, it will convert them over to retro. NOT! Hasn't been successul in the last 3 years, wont be next year. Loaning cars to flexi racer spectators MAY be the only way to convert. If stamped steel is offered, they will not cross over for the most part. Now if the primary concern is entry numbers, then by all means include it. If its entry level only, then accomplished flexi racers are not permitted and will not how uo anyway. Coupes would be a better choice, it is a retro series, lots of loaners available, motors are cheap to jump into, etc etc etc.

The other concern I have is how this can be completed in any kind of a timely manner? 4 classes and qualifying. I like to make the house races at Tom Thmub whenever possible, this will make for a very long day for me, considering 3 hours+ travel time to the track. Larry is at least 1 1/2 hours beyond.

My 2 cents...............

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

IMO, enough series have tried to race Fexi under the guise, it will convert them over to retro. NOT! Hasn't been successul in the last 3 years, wont be next year. Loaning cars to flexi racer spectators MAY be the only way to convert. If stamped steel is offered, they will not cross over for the most part. Now if the primary concern is entry numbers, then by all means include it. If its entry level only, then accomplished flexi racers are not permitted and will not how uo anyway. Coupes would be a better choice, it is a retro series, lots of loaners available, motors are cheap to jump into, etc etc etc.

The other concern I have is how this can be completed in any kind of a timely manner? 4 classes and qualifying. I like to make the house races at Tom Thmub whenever possible, this will make for a very long day for me, considering 3 hours+ travel time to the track. Larry is at least 1 1/2 hours beyond.

My 2 cents...............

I guess we will just have to disagree on this. Because of the Flexi class we have added 6 racers into retro. Not a staggering number but better than ZERO. And near zero is what we would have had if our entry level was something like Coupe or Can-Am. It is very difficult to convince someone to spend the money (quality iron, jig, Dremel, etc.) and the effort needed to race "true" Retro unless they are already committed to slot racing. It is much easier to convince someone to give it a try when the buy-in is a fraction of the amount needed for "true" retro and, in many instances, they can use someting they already own. At that point we all hope they get hooked and move up to Can-Am or whatever. The more barriers that are erected between new racers and any type of racing the less racers we will have. Retro Flexi is simply a tool to help grow slot racing in general, and Retro in particular. It is a tool we need in our kit even if we don't use it as often as we like.

And what if all it does is mostly add to the $$ for the raceways. This is bad why?? Aren't healthy, profitable raceways needed to race these "true" and "pure" retro cars? All of you raceway owners please raise your hands if money is no object and profit is a bad word. How much luck would we have racing Retro with no raceways?

And lastly, all of you who dislike Flexi simply don't race Flexi. It is scheduled last so it WILL NOT affect your schedule at all.

[Larry Mattingly]

Hey, I'm all for raceways making as much money as possible...

I think its great, and I support 100 percent, that retro has no payouts (at least in the series I run). In many cases a retro race is the biggest payday many raceways experience all year...

My comment in the above post was directed at the fact that I normally see the same faces racing Flexi-GT, along with Can-Am and F1. In my experience it is 'another race' for the guys that came to run retro cars. Thus, my comment about accomplishing nothing but a 'bigger payday'.

I guess I would look more favorably upon Flexi-GT if the class was restricted to true 'newbies'. But, when I see racers who make the podium at major retro races running the Flexi class, I do have to chuckle a bit. I don't see ANYTHING positive about a newcomer having to race against seasoned pros...

If Ohio retro has gained six new racers, that is commendable and impressive. Most of the other series have not experienced any new blood racing Flexi cars, and have dropped the class.

Again, the series directors control policy and the rules. I'm just expressing my opinion. We'll be there in Sept....

LM

[Terry]

Debating wether or not Flexi GT is to be ran in ORS is a moot point. It's obvious that Mike McMasters wants this class and he should as it's a great way for him to get people into racing at Tom Thumb. He and Ron are running the show and have made their decision. I have no problem with this at all and nobody else should.

I sincerely hope that MORE racers will make the effort to support this series at both tracks than what we have had in years past.

Terry

[DirtyHairy]

with all series,,theres always someone ( like me) who has to put what some call a negative spin on things,,,,i say its just an opinion..........but im in agreeance with the BoD on this one (i know , dont pass out) but itnroducing new people to retro is the goal,,,,not to mention putting money in the pockets of the raceways is a good thing....but i also think the "regulars" should stay out of the (flexi) race or limit there times racing that class, for the fear of driving off the new guys....

on the other hand,,,,Flexi does not seam to bring that many new racers in.......but i guess a few is better than none...and there is always next year,,,,as we have found out in P.O.

and another positive thing is ,,,,RETRO PRO!!!!!!! you have a beginner class to cater to the new guys,,,,,and Retro Pro to let the guys who want to go crazy , do just that...if Columbus wasnt such a drive,,,id love to come race Retro Pro with you all,,,,best of luck to all of you in the series and the raceways hosting the races

[Larry Mattingly]

...if Columbus wasnt such a drive

Two hours is a 'drive'...

LM

[DirtyHairy]

you wanna try convincing my wife to drive 2 hours to go play with toy cars???? its hard enough to get up to Freemont 2 times a year for a series race

[Josh Crutchfield]

you wanna try convincing my wife to drive 2 hours to go play with toy cars???? its hard enough to get up to Freemont 2 times a year for a series race

Here's a thought, Leave her at HOME......

[DirtyHairy]

that never crossed my mind....... she's my partner in crime.....kinda like Rick and Larry only not so......

[Pappy]

Here's a thought, Leave her at HOME......

If you leave her at home you have to kiss her good-bye. I'd much rather take her with me.

[Jacob Shiplet]

Will any of these races be on Ustream?

[Dave Reed]

If this has been answered, please forgive as I don't see it. What is and is not allowed in the retro-pro chassis and motor specs..As it now takes me weeks if not months to do what took days to do in past years I need to get started NOW..

[Brian]

IMO,

Flexi should be seperated by driver skill although ran together, scored seperately. Run the Flexi class threw for the first main (2 & 2), this includes everybody, then run two seperate A mains (3 & 2). One for the "A"'s & one for the "B"'s. I'm a strong beleiver in "You only get as fast as the guys you race with". This gives the "beginners" a chance to learn by racing with "A"'s then when the "A"'s main is ran, there's no problem with beginners causing havek.

This is an entry level "Retro" class & most of the time its the largest. Maybe this should be concidered. Nothing worse then going to an event as a beginner & knowing you have no chance of making the a main. Who wants to travel a distance for that as a beginner?

8 A"s with 8 A's & 8 B"s with 8 B's for Mains in Flexi is MO & run it last,

[The Number of]

If this has been answered, please forgive as I don't see it. What is and is not allowed in the retro-pro chassis and motor specs..As it now takes me weeks if not months to do what took days to do in past years I need to get started NOW..

I'm with you Dave,it takes a lot longer for me to build than the old days, can we use D-3 rules with .050 front and rear,and the.790 tires in the rear and safley start building?

[Tom Thumb Hobbies]

I'm with you Dave,it takes a lot longer for me to build than the old days, can we use D-3 rules with .050 front and rear,and the.790 tires in the rear and safley start building?

Take the D3 rules from HERE and change ONLY the following TWO things: 1) Minimum clearance front to back of .050 - 2) Minimum rear tire diameter is .790.

Simple as that

[The Number of]

Take the D3 rules from HERE and change ONLY the following TWO things: 1) Minimum clearance front to back of .050 - 2) Minimum rear tire diameter is .790.

Simple as that

Thanks Bill

[Dave Reed]

Also, Thanks much!..Just need to know if we can use the S-7 kits to build a LEGAL chassis?.

[Ohio Retro Series]

Also, Thanks much!..Just need to know if we can use the S-7 kits to build a LEGAL chassis?.

Some of the individual pieces in the S-7 kits can be used to build a legal Retro-Pro chassis BUT if the kit is built as intended by S-7 then that would NOT be a legal chassis. An example of why, taken directly from the D3 rules:

Absolutely no form of pillow block construction (as in individual sheet-metal axle holders soldered into slots cut in any form of sheet-metal support) is allowed.

There are other examples such as no axle tube and a multiple piece rear motor mount.

[Jacob Shiplet]

Some of the individual pieces in the S-7 kits can be used to build a legal Retro-Pro chassis BUT if the kit is built as intended by S-7 then that would NOT be a legal chassis. An example of why, taken directly from the D3 rules:

Absolutely no form of pillow block construction (as in individual sheet-metal axle holders soldered into slots cut in any form of sheet-metal support) is allowed.

There are other examples such as no axle tube and a multiple piece rear motor mount.

Also no center tube as a hinge mechanism....RICK!