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Bruce McLaren’s Cooper-Oldsmobile


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#51 Jairus

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 11:33 AM

Yeah, it'll fold in the middle allowing you to hold it in your shirt pocket is what! :rolleyes:

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#52 dc-65x

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 12:29 PM

Here's the Morrissey chassis I used for inspiration. It works fine with pin tube:

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....it'll fold in the middle....


Not only that but the front end springs like a slinky. Give it a flip with your finger and it will keep springing back and forth seemingly forever :blush: :laugh2: .

But hey, I meant to do that.... :unsure: ....Well maybe not but this fixed the problem and weighs next to nothing:

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It's amazing what a little X-bracing will do. It's quite stiff now. Also, note the brass armature washer I used to reinforce the wire rails to drop arm pivot joint.

With that fixed I added a drop arm....

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...the body mount side rails and a drop arm down stop and the chassis is done:

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Hmmm......that is a funny looking front axle tube :blink:

Rick Thigpen
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#53 Duffy

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:03 PM

Naaaaw. Just think of it as a long bushing for an aluminum freewheel.
Michael J. Heinrich
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#54 Tex

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 02:09 PM

Got yer own version of a "Birdcage" almost, Rick.

Niiiice.
Richard L. Hofer

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#55 Jairus

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 03:54 PM

Ball bearing fronts? ;)

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#56 dc-65x

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:15 PM

Hi Duffy, you're close ;) .

Thanks Tex :)

Ball bearing fronts? ;)


You're on a roll my man :D . I decided to try some of our Russkit repop front set screw wheels, Russkit Cooper wheel inserts, Revell Goodyear front tires and.......

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bore the wheels out to 1/4".....

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.....machine off the set screw boss holding the wheel in a pot chuck.......

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......and convert them to ball bearing fronts using some vintage Versatec ball bearings (stock wheel on the left):

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I've never used the old Versatec bearings because they are a little sloppy for a rear end but man, they spin forever. Just the ticket for front wheels. Another .00001 miles per hour top speed are mine for sure :laugh2: .

I broke the motor in at 6 volts for 2 hours, reoiled the bearings and repeated for another 2 hours. It drew .4 amps or less and barely got warm:

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I'm going to try 3 different rear tires all on our Russkit repop rear wheels. MDC silicones, 40mm Germans and modern Paul's urethane repops of K&B stock car specials:

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I changed my mind on the guide after I took this picture. I went with the old Dynamic with screw in "hairy braid" shown and the small brass guide collar:

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Putting everything together for a "pre-paint" test at Eddie's she looks like so:

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Off to the track........

Rick Thigpen
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#57 Régis4446

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 12:32 AM

:shok: nice work again.
and a great source of inspiration.
Régis Baron

#58 dc-65x

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 04:04 PM

Thanks Régis.

Track testing at Eddie's is always fun. With it being Easter Sunday we pretty much had the place to ourselves. From the moment I put my Cooper-Olds on the track it was perfect...everything I'd hoped for and more.

Everything I build does not turn out this way unfortunately. My Rod & Custom Team Russkit Lotus 25B is a disaster :blink: . Even Rodney (one of the best vintage car tuners there is) put that thing on the floor :shok: :laugh2: .

But that's another story. My 705-6 runs and handles great and it's time to paint it. But first I want to show the runners up in the Pittman Top Speed Challenge event.

Rodney's 705 powered Apollo GT with a survivor body from back in the day:

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Finally Rodney's other Challenge car, a 706 powered Lancer King Cobra. The project started with his sketch and turned into a spectacular space frame:

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I think it's a real work of art. Here are some pictures of the rolling chassis:

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The body is another survivor that was started by an unknown builder back in the day and finished by Rodney:

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The exhaust pipes are intake stacks from the Monogram Chaparral 2D model. I believe the driver and dashboard are from the same kit:

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Is that one fantastic build or what!

Rick Thigpen
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#59 don.siegel

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 04:12 PM

Beautiful guys!

How did they stack up against each other on the track? I see that Rodney also used Weldun gears - did he do nasty stuff to the motor like you?

And was it worth saving those tenths of a gram?

Don

#60 dc-65x

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 04:37 PM

Hey Don,

Rodney's King Cobra was faster than his Apollo GT but a little slower top speed wise than my car. His Cobra was way heavier and uses stock gearing so that's not a surprise. Lap time wise my car was quite a bit quicker. Rodney is going to switch to some urethane or silicone tires and that should close the gap quite a bit.

I'm actually quite surprised at how well my car runs but I love that space frame King Cobra!

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#61 dc-65x

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 05:04 PM

........And was it worth saving those tenths of a gram?


I forgot to answer about the weight. Actually I saved 5.5 grams not tenths of a gram. Was that worth the effort? I think only if I enjoyed the process and I had a BLAST! :)
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#62 Alchemist

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 09:58 PM

Hi Rick,

What a gorgeous "gem" of a motor! What do you call it please, since it's a "hybrid" combining both 705/706 parts?

Simply gorgeous!

Ernie

Posted Image
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#63 dc-65x

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 11:05 PM

Hi Ernie,

I just call it a Pittman 705-6. It's a good running motor and the car handles great too. My 1966 R&C cars are super fast in the straights but handle like crap and I mean CRAP. But I'm not giving up on them....yet.
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#64 don.siegel

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 03:55 AM

and I had a BLAST! :)


Rick,

And we're having a blast watching you go through the process! Don't know if you realize how inspiring your work is to all of us, but just wanted to thank you for everything you've done, and how you've brought together childhood dreams and adult know-how in some of the most beautiful slot cars I've ever seen!

Back to the trenches, time to plug in my JBC...

Don

PS: a DC705-1/2?
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#65 dc-65x

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 04:04 PM

Thank you Don. Building these cars wouldn't be half the fun if I couldn't share them with everyone that loves the old slot cars too.

Rick Thigpen
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#66 Tex

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 06:13 PM

Hi Ernie,

I just call it a Pittman 705-6. It's a good running motor and the car handles great too. My 1966 R&C cars are super fast in the straights but handle like crap and I mean CRAP. But I'm not giving up on them....yet.


Ah, the slot racer's conumdrum... looks great on the drawing board and building jig, right up to when it's put on the track in all it's pristine virgin patina. Then it tries to take a corner... and wallows like a beached whale on 2 hydrocodone and a 12-pack. It's time to ask yourself the age-old question:

What would Steube/VonAhrens/TonyP/Warmack/Cukras/Cozine do?

Lead, baby... lead. Add lead until it CAN'T come off. Then back some lead off until you can find some sort of "edge" to drive it on, somewhere between said whale paddling a Radio Flyer around a cul-de-sac as fast as it can vs. straightlining into the wall and being kicked out for damaging the track. :laugh2:
Richard L. Hofer

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#67 dc-65x

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 07:43 PM

Tex, the Lotus 25B is so evil handling it would be declared a Super Fund Hazardous Cleanup Site if I put all the lead on it would take to keep that thing off its back :shok: . Too much traction. So far Alpha Piranhas, Super Naturals and Wonder Rubber have had too much bite. I've ground a pair of original grey Van Cleave and Quad Experience tires to try.

Back to this project.....what in the heck color was Bruce McLaren's helmet when he drove this Cooper-Olds? I thought it was silver but in this picture it looks white :blink: :

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And in this picture it looks like it could be silver:

Posted Image

Hey Scale Police, what say you please :)

Rick Thigpen
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#68 Bill from NH

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:17 PM

I'm not the Scale Police, but when the helmet is compared to a known white area(meatball & numerals) in each photo, it looks to be a light shade of silver. The lower sides of the body are a darker shade of silver. :)

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#69 Tex

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 10:07 PM

From what few color photos I've seen from "back in the day", a silver helmet back then was a silver-gray as opposed to a chrome-silver. Maybe that coupled with perhaps "less-than-full-sun" conditions make that first pic look the way it does.
Richard L. Hofer

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#70 Mopar Rob

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 10:37 PM

Tex, the Lotus 25B is so evil handling it would be declared a Super Fund Hazardous Cleanup Site if I put all the lead on it would take to keep that thing off its back :shok: . Too much traction. So far Alpha Piranhas, Super Naturals and Wonder Rubber have had too much bite. I've ground a pair of original grey Van Cleave and Quad Experience tires to try.

Back to this project.....what in the heck color was Bruce McLaren's helmet when he drove this Cooper-Olds? I thought it was silver but in this picture it looks white :blink: :

Posted Image

And in this picture it looks like it could be silver:

Posted Image

Hey Scale Police, what say you please :)



I think it's silver. In the black & white photo it looks lighter, but I think that's just the sun or some other reflection. Look at the silver stripe on the hood, it looks lighter than the bottom and I would bet they were the same?

In regard to the silver paint. Metalic back in the day is different than today's mica based paint. Most were ground much finer and gives a grayer look. I had a bottle of some old color change paint that I think Joe Lupo had given me. If you spray it dry it's just silver and would be correct looking for the day. Maybe Joe has more? Tomorrow I can take a photo of two modern 1/32 cars with one painted Pactra silver and the other painted with the paint I got from Joe to illustrate the example.
Rob Hanson

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Rob was right!


#71 Prof. Fate

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 11:20 AM

Hi

With either survivors or new builds, when the "too much traction" thing is observed, it is usually no such thing, but flex in the rear axle carrier, bent axle, out of round wheels. Just look at twisting the wheels in the hand and seeing if the motor and axle carrier are moving around. If you can kill this movement, the tire issue usually goes away.

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#72 dc-65x

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 11:50 AM

OK, thanks, a silver helmet it shall be :) .

But now the bar has been raised in this Pittman Top Speed contest. Rodney has moved his King Cobra out of the All Pittman Class and into the new Vintage Unlimited Class (any brand vintage parts, rewinds OK, but must fit inside a 703 - 706 setup) :shok: . Here is his email and pictures:

Rick,

Full ball bearings. Epoxied, trued and balanced arm. Weldon gears. Turned 9.01 on the Blue King and a bunch of 9.10
New tires also.

Rodney

Posted Image

Posted Image


Boys, that ain't no Pittman armature :unsure: ! It's a 3-pole with a different comm. And, that wire under the old school "full epoxy encapsulation" looks pretty hefty :blink: . He found the armature in a box of stuff from the old Oakland Speedway.

I'm going to postpone painting the McLaren Olds for my "All Pittman Class" car and build a new "Vintage Unlimited Class" car ................

"Come Watson, the game is afoot!" :laugh2:


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#73 Jairus

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 01:16 PM

Sir, Yes sir? ;)


Pardon me for asking but what is Rodney doing for magnets? I only ask because I have never seen bits of metallic material clinging to a Pittman like I seen in your pictures gov'ner. I suspect "Neo" may be the culprit here sir.

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#74 TSR

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 02:37 PM

Rick,
Bruce's helmet was plain silver with a clear coat, standard stock color for a period Buco or Bell. The clear coat is what makes the color appear darker than it really is. In the day, few drivers painted their helmets, and Bruce was too busy with more important things to bother about his personal equipment... :)

#75 dc-65x

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 09:46 PM

Thanks Philippe, silver it will be ;) .

Jairus wrote:

Pardon me for asking but what is Rodney doing for magnets? I only ask because I have never seen bits of metallic material clinging to a Pittman like I seen in your pictures gov'ner. I suspect "Neo" may be the culprit here sir.


Rodney responded:

Rick,
Jarius is on to something. Not sure what the magnet was from for the 706. I dug up every part that looks kinda like a 704 style part. I picked the strongest magnet and did not have it re-zapped. It does make the motor attract metal like crazy. The motor was clean when assembled. When you work on the car, it sucks up body pins and wrenches. Stronger then most C-can magnets.
Rodney


I'll put the gauss meter on Rodney's magnet and compare it to my Ram and Pittman magnets soon......

Rick Thigpen
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#76 Prof. Fate

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 11:26 AM

Hi

Sounds like an arms race!

Fate
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#77 mdiv

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:56 PM

"Arms Race" - :laugh2:

Looking good, Rick and Rodney, I love this thread!

-- Mikey

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#78 dc-65x

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 06:59 PM

Sounds like an arms race!


NEVER GIVE IN

:laugh2: :laugh2:

Actually, this is all fun for us. We share info and help each other out (mostly Rodney helps me!)

I plan on RAMming it home with my new PitRam XL706-500 :D

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#79 TSR

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 09:01 PM

Will it be RAM-wrestling, or...

Posted Image

:)

#80 mdiv

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 09:16 PM

HPIM0424.JPG


HPIM0288.JPG

The one in the 222 looks "copper" while one arm is "dark red" and the other 3 are green.

Sir...SIR! What does this mean?!

Mikey Mikey bo bikey.

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#81 dc-65x

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 10:39 PM

Will it be RAM-wrestling, or...
:)


We "be battl'n" on the Blue King :D

Mikey,

You've got the big RAM 722 there....cool :) . That arm is huge....those motors are on our list but we're going with the Pittman diameter arms for now. So here's my next motor. It's a new in the box Ram XL500 that's a rust bucket because the factory soldered the spur gear on the axle and didn't clean up the flux:

Posted Image

Torn down into its pieces parts:

Posted Image

The armature is only .6 ohms vs. the Pittman 706's 1.3 ohms. I'm also going to use the nicely ground magnet. It's gauss reading is a little stronger than my Pittman magnets.

Here's the donor Pittman 706:

Posted Image

I'm still a little unsure if this will work because the RAM arm is .020" larger in diameter than the Pittman. I think it will work but we'll see.....

Rick Thigpen
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#82 boxerdog

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 10:08 AM

I built this a few years back.....pretty crude but it seems to fit in:
David Cummerow

#83 boxerdog

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 10:10 AM

It's a resin body, dynamic chassis and an XL-500. Maybe with some additional effort it would be competitive????
David Cummerow

#84 mdiv

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 12:31 PM

Rick, thanks for the nods. It's a 222...and the arms say "7-pole armature for 222". :unsure: Not sure about the different color wires, are they different voltage ratings?

Dave - Looking GOOD! :)

-- Mikey

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#85 dc-65x

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 05:20 PM

Not sure about the different color wires, are they different voltage ratings?


Could be Mikey. Mine are all brown wire, no green. Do you have an OHM meter to check the resistance with?

Nice car Dave. I was hoping to run an XL500 armature in my new Vintage Unlimited Class Pittman 706 (any brand vintage parts, rewinds OK, but must fit inside a 703 - 706 setup). I did a weekends worth of work on it including turning down the OD to fit the Pittman setup, truing the comm, epoxy and balancing.......the whole enchilada:

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I even polished the air gap on the pole pieces:

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When I buzzed the motor up on the power supply it was an absolute DOG :blink: :angry: . My other RAM XL500 I built a few years ago buzzes up great :unsure: . Either it was a dog all along or I screwed it up somehow :rolleyes: .

Hmmmm.....what else will fit in that 706 setup. Rodney keeps pulling hot rewound arms from back in the day out of his "Oakland Speedway Box" (pics of his newest Unlimited class car coming up next).

I have a need for speed. My RAM arm is screwed up, I don't have any period rewinds........hmmm......lookie at this arm:

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It's an unbalanced, dual shaft Champion 26D. It's got a bit of CCW timing cranked in and measures .3 ohms. It's short enough to fit but is a little small in OD at .590". The Pittman arm is .620". That's a pretty big air gap :unsure: .

I stuck it in the 706 setup, and turned on the power supply. It INSTANTLY heated up and started to stink :shok: . Then I remembered I hadn't reZAPPED the motor. It read only 150 on the gauss meter. Here it is after the reZAP of the RAM magnet I'm using:

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Now THAT'S impressive :) . Back on the power supply it buzzed up great, drew less than 1 amp and barely got warm :D . The arm is already epoxied and balanced as good as I can do statically. I just cleaned it up, polished the stack, cut the comm, soldered on an 11T pinion and shortened the shafts:

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The setup is all ball bearing. I'm using VBX bearings (I'm cheap) but I remove the shields and clean all the grease out (clean, finished bearing on the right):

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I used RAM 426 brushes (cut to fit the 16D sized comm) and RAM 850 brush spring and plunger:

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The finished motor:

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That big air gap still worries me. It might be all RPM and no torque. I won't know until it hits the track. It sure sounds good on the power supply though ;) .

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#86 boxerdog

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 10:02 AM

Rick, the 26d shafts weren't loose in the .093 bearings??? That should be a killer setup. Maybe a neo chunk would cure the airgap issue.
David Cummerow

#87 dc-65x

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 12:09 PM

Hi Dave,

Yes, I had to replace the 3/32" (.0938") bearings for the smaller 26D armature shaft. Back in the day SKF made "hop up" ball bearings for the then current motors. For this application I would use (if I had any vintage SKF ball bearings ;) ) SKF 5/64" X 3/16" (.0781" X .1875") bearings.

A really close modern substitute are 2mm X 5mm (.0787" X .1969") ball bearings. It usually takes a "Duffy" to spot the .010" (the thickness of 3 human hairs) larger diameter modern bearing.

I'm hopeful the big air gap will work. The motor really sounds good on the power supply and it doesn't get hot. Neo's are a banned substance in our friendly little "Pittman Challange" :) .

I'm building the chassis now so I hope to test at Eddie's soon. Rodney has built FOUR cars so he's way ahead of me. I hope to post some pictures of his other cars here soon.....

Rick Thigpen
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#88 Tex

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 06:22 PM

I'm cheap too, Rick, and have used both VXB and Avid BB's. So, there's a c-clamp holding the shield in place? What did you use to remove it? Will a new Xacto blade do the trick?
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#89 dc-65x

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 08:05 PM

Hi Tex,

Yup, the little C-clip holds the shield in place. Some C-clips are easier to get out than others. A number 11 Xacto blade works well to get under the end of the clip.

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#90 dc-65x

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 09:01 PM

Rodney sent me pictures of his 3rd car he's built for this challange. This time he's using a 706 armature and magnets in a 705 setup like I did but with a twist. He wanted to use a different gear ratio than the side plates would allow so he made his own....with just a Dremel tool and file :shok: . YIKES, now this took some work!

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Here's his finished motor:

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He's made a 2-rail chassis with the rails attached to tubes soldered to the motor side plates. His motor is removable which is a good feature:

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Here's the finished roller and the design drawing. Check out those cast wheels. I've never seen them before. Wonder who made them :unsure: :

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The body is a Lancer Mecom Lola painted back in the day by ?????

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Next up is building a chassis for my Pittman 706 with a Champion 26D armature posted earlier.

Hmmm………A “Pitt-Champ 726D” perhaps :D



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#91 Tex

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 10:13 PM

That is really a slick build; what ingenuity! :)
Richard L. Hofer

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#92 Hworth08

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 08:36 AM

An interesting use of front wheel retainers! :)
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#93 dc-65x

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 02:03 PM

Yup he's done some clever things on his chassis ;) .

Time to build a chassis for my killer (hopefully!) “Pitt-Champ 726D”:

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I REALLY like all the pin holes in my "Ricks Jig":

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Everything is aligned and held in place for soldering:

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The drop arm gets aligned and held in place too:

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Here are some close-ups. The simple drop arm:

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The motor brackets made from K&S sheet brass:

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Brass washers reinforce the drop arm pivot tubes:

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In honor of the new X-Man movie, an X-brace to stop twisting:

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The finished chassis:

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Time to screw the thing together and try in on my little home track........


Rick Thigpen
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#94 TSR

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 02:17 PM

The body is a Lancer Mecom Lola painted back in the day by ?????

I love how the painter left the roof clear for the driver to look at the stars... :wub:


#95 don.siegel

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 05:54 AM

Another beautiful build Rick, and Rodney's as well! Good original paint job too - was the roof ever clear on one of these cars?

Have you thought about something like a DynoCan arm in one of these Pittmans? Seems like it would be closer to the original size, non?

Don

#96 dc-65x

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 08:23 PM


Dokk, I really like that Lola GT too!

Hi Don,

One of the biggest problems I had finding an arm for a 706 is getting one with a shaft long enough on the back end for a pinion gear. The Dyno arms I had were a no go. Whether other MPC arms would work :unsure: ?????

After running my 726D on my home track I'm very hopeful it's going to JET at Eddie's. At first it didn't have any brakes but I installed the heaviest of the 3 RAM 850 brush springs and then ZAPPED the grunt out of the setup. I remember it got pretty hot when I was soldering up the frame.

BINGO! We have brakes :D . Like I said I'm hopeful but a Blue King is a lot more telling than my little home track......we'll see ;) .

Here she is:

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She wants to do wheelies with all that punch so I've since added some lead on the drop arm and switched out the braid for REH "Cox" Super Soft.

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Rodney and I are sticking with Pre-CanAm Series bodies. The first CanAm race was at St. Jovite, Canada, Sept. 11, 1966. I'll be running this Revell Lotus 30 body:

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Onward :)


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#97 Vittorio Coletta

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 08:36 PM

We have this car in our psssesion in venezuela with all pieces

#98 hiline2

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 06:30 AM

Here is my question > what has happened to all  these great builds I see here and else where / have they all ended up in museums or as hunks of discard or sitting in boxes or shelves ? I know DC65 has been putting some of his on epay (which I sheepishly bid on for a while) . 

 

Will Phillipe conduct a clandestine operation to recover the Venezuela treasure ?  


Paul Bass





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