Jump to content




Photo

Thingies: what were they all about?


  • Please log in to reply
475 replies to this topic

#51 tonyp

tonyp

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,702 posts
  • Joined: 12-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sanford, FL, land of lizards and big roaches

Posted 06 November 2011 - 04:52 PM

I'm in for the next time. The crock hunter and I will collaborate on a car. Sorry I missed the fun this year. Speedzones 220'engleman would be a cool track to run these on because it is closer to what they were originally designed to run on the the Frisco area, plus there are a ton of legends there to run them.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen they'd probably put my head in a guillotine. But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only." - Dylan

1965 "Evil Bucks Racer" Team
Revtech Team Trinity
Noose Painted Bodies
Retro East co-founder
American King track single lap world record holder & 40 minute total lap record
First IM Nationals Champion
Arco Champion
Car Model Magazine Series Amateur Champion
2016 ORS Anglewinder Constructors Championsh
ip





#52 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,518 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 06 November 2011 - 05:24 PM

Morrissey on "thingies" (from my new book):

An editorial by Mike Morrissey in Model Car Journal pointed out that the San Francisco variety of “Group IV thingy class” cars, largely sponsored by Mura, failed to impress when used on true road courses such as the one at Don’s Raceway in Downey. Despite their ultra-lightweight and aerodynamic bodies they barely matched the speed of the more scale models run in the rest of the country. Mike fumed: “All that butchery, all these absurd rules and the thingies could only go a mere two hundredths faster than a USRA car”.

:)

This should encourage you to persevere! :D

#53 Martin

Martin

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 237 posts
  • Joined: 22-February 09
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 November 2011 - 06:03 PM

Thanks Jairus for the reply. I will go back and read from the start when i have more time. I only jumped in because I thought you were "spit balling" looking for input ? on a new Thingie class that represented the thinking and restrictions of the day. That sounds like a great challenge.
I love the Thingie movement of the day and would love get back to the original question "Thingies: what were they all about?" Great question. From what I have read seen and herd it was a faction that splintered off in a need for speed at any cost mentality . When did it start and end? Did track track owners look down on this crowd, or even ban them? Were they the rebels of slot cars?
I do not think Thingies evolved into the morden wing car but rather wing cars were developed from sports and Ca am cars which started to sprout wing of there own and then the bodies just seem to just get flatter with kick-up and less and less detail.
So I have a gap in my understanding of the evolution of the slot car. 1968 The Thingie movement looks strong , 1978 we almost have the modern wing car. How did we get there? I am looking for the slot car equivalent of the missing link. May be I thought this Balls out Thingie class of racing would magically bridge that cap.
My main interest in slot cars is the understanding of the evolution and advancements in design. I jumped in 1967 and was out by 1970 while growing in up in England. I never even saw a Thingie in England,so now I collect and restore cars 62 to 78 so I have a better understanding of what i missed.
So I am not trying to rain on your parade, I concede that the proxy Thingie race with modern rules may not be my thing. But I would like any input on the missing link and what were Thingies all about.
Martin.
P.S
I was writing this above when you posted this. " all these absurd rules" Philippe what were the rules or was it a lack of rules Mike was referring to?
Martin Windmill

#54 MantaRay

MantaRay

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,859 posts
  • Joined: 05-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicagoland

Posted 06 November 2011 - 06:23 PM

Keith, Thanks for the article...........sure would like to see some pics of the chassis'sPosted Image
Ray Price
11/4/49-1/23/15
Requiescat in Pace

#55 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,350 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 06 November 2011 - 06:40 PM

I'm in for the next time. The crock hunter and I will collaborate on a car. Sorry I missed the fun this year. Speedzones 220'engleman would be a cool track to run these on because it is closer to what they were originally designed to run on the the Frisco area, plus there are a ton of legends there to run them.


Awesome !!!:D

Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#56 Jairus

Jairus

    Body Painter Extraordinaire

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,200 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salem, OR

Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:02 PM

Ray, this was the standard Mura chassis back in the day.
Posted Image

Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

www.slotcarsmag.com

www.jairuswatson.net
http://www.ratholecustoms.com
Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#57 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,350 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:06 PM

An editorial by Mike Morrissey in Model Car Journal pointed out that the San Francisco variety of "Group IV thingy class" cars, largely sponsored by Mura, failed to impress when used on true road courses such as the one at Don's Raceway in Downey. Despite their ultra-lightweight and aerodynamic bodies they barely matched the speed of the more scale models run in the rest of the country. Mike fumed: "All that butchery, all these absurd rules and the thingies could only go a mere two hundredths faster than a USRA car".


;) Yes, But:

1. Butchery is in the eyes of the beholder.
2. They WERE faster.
3. The intent is to run these on Fast tracks not tight road courses.
Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#58 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,518 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:16 PM

I was writing this above when you posted this. " all these absurd rules" Philippe what were the rules or was it a lack of rules Mike was referring to?

Martin,
Morrissey who was a bit of a scale freak but who hardly hesitated to add out-of-scale aerodynamic implements to his own cars, was talking about the Choti-bodied thingies that visited SoCal in early 1968 in a "confrontational race" in Downey. There, the super-slick, Mura powered cars were in fact fastest, but not by much. So Mike was fuming about what he considered to be the "beginning of the end" of slot car racing, a compromise that was not worth it according to him, and that would turn off many potential racers. In a way the same argument I make today about the pretty horrid-looking (to me) modern wing cars.
The thingies "rules" were basically few: the Mura sponsored machines were designed for very high speed tracks located in North California where these machines excelled. John Chotia was one of the few slot car racers who had understood the relation between air molecules in full size and the 1/24 scale and did not care much for looks, only for efficiency. The "chassis" were a pair of steel wires affixing thr motor bracket to a guide post, with two cross tubes acting as rigid body mounts. The bodies applied down force, some of them with an added side dam on one side...
So some of the cars we learned to love today because of our nostalgic feelings might have looked truly ugly to Mike Morrissey but who cares, they are so COOL!!!'

Let's not forget that Mike had a bit of a chip already about thingies as a year before he made the comment, he got his clock cleaned by another group of thingie lovers when he and Len Vucci visited "The Groove" near Detroit, and their lightweight Californian cars with sponge tires and scale bodies were total tilting machines, unable to compete with the very heavy "Detroit Sliders" using silicone tires on a very bity, Formica-like surface.
The local thingies were of course largely influenced by the fantastic machines devised mostly by Larry Shinoda, the "other" thingie master besides John Chotia, and powered by what were likely the fastest production motors in the US at the time, the Dyna-Rewind motors, produced by two GM engineers in their spare time... :)

#59 Jairus

Jairus

    Body Painter Extraordinaire

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,200 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salem, OR

Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:31 PM

I'm in for the next time. The crock hunter and I will collaborate on a car. Sorry I missed the fun this year. Speedzones 220'engleman would be a cool track to run these on because it is closer to what they were originally designed to run on the the Frisco area, plus there are a ton of legends there to run them.


I am with Bob here... AWESOME Tony and happy to have you join us on the dark side! :)

Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

www.slotcarsmag.com

www.jairuswatson.net
http://www.ratholecustoms.com
Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#60 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,350 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:33 PM

Basically like these with body mounts as described in the article posted by Keith.

:D For the purest....

MURA FT16 Chassis.jpg
Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#61 TRM124

TRM124

    Backmarker

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 65 posts
  • Joined: 19-February 06
  • Location:Miamisburg, OH

Posted 06 November 2011 - 11:13 PM

Jarius,
I only built one Thingie back in 1968. And it was an anglewinder. It had a Mura body and a Mura endbell drive.
It had 3/4" rear tires,less then 1/2" front tires, a Dynamic drop arm.
I think most of the pieces are in boxes somewhere around here.
Guess it's time to re-store :)

Ted
Ted Melton

#62 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,350 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 07 November 2011 - 12:07 AM

Martin,

3.25" is the max width, as motioned 3" is acceptable. I understand your purest approach but we are not in the 60's anymore and can't go back and forget everything we have learned since then. We can build in this genre without being unfaithful to or past experiences.
You hit on something with the flattened Can-Ams and Coupes but these flattened areo thingies ARE the missing link leading to wing cars.Many of the scale purists of the day learned to accept them cause the were fast, the future and way cool with the beauty being in the function. If you look at some rules of the day scale cars were growing appendages that were not on the full size cars, scale thingies if you must.
Please don't get hung up on the spirit angle stressing some out by stirring the pot.

We are building in the spirit of and in the tradition of the period we wish that we could flashback too.


Duffy puts it well from this story. http://slotblog.net/...skit-26d-racer/


[Duffy wrote:

I chuckle. If you're just tuning in, Fred, a LOT of discussion here on Slotblog (and esp. in the "RETRO" camps) hovers around "What SHOULD have been"--those things we've learned in the ensuing years that in hindsight are simply no-brainers; leading some to try, sometimes very hard, to imbue '60s guys with '00s brains...

Seems like a lot of S'bloggers haven't read their Stephen Jay Gould. "Why didn't we think of that"--because we didn't, now get over it.

Of course, NOW (if it's in a "might've-been" category that Rikky is particularly charming at creating for our entertainment!) we can play with this stuff. Blessedly free of some Racing Class rules set, we can build in this genre that Rikky, Pablo, Jairus and I (long ago & not recently) have done. A real noble thing, I think. We need more of it.

--I need more of it!

Duffy


Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#63 Martin

Martin

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 237 posts
  • Joined: 22-February 09
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 November 2011 - 01:22 AM

Bob, Philippe,great insight, I was wondering what the pros at the time thought of these wild looking thingies. It must of been a little like the first time I saw a wing car in the 80s at Hagganwood in Sacramento.I thought they were from another planet. After buying a couple of international 15s and getting knocked off the track every time the cars got close. Too fast too much glue too much wing. I chucked it in until I found Slot Car junction and the vintage group some years later.
I would like to know what happened to the Thingie movement after 68. As far as I know pro cars and Thingies never raced together. Philippe's mention of Mikes disgust of them lets us know that they new of them and the pros might of been influenced or inspired by there speed and may have started the transformation which became the wing car.

Ted you mentioned
you only built one Thingie back in 1968. And it was an anglewinder. It had a Mura body and a Mura endbell drive.
It had 3/4" rear tires,less then 1/2" front tires, a Dynamic drop arm.
I think most of the pieces are in boxes somewhere around here.
Guess it's time to re-store :)

Please go on, this is the only time I have herd a connection between Thingies and angle winders. Do you still have the Mura? body. I really hope you can find the car. This might be the missing link. I'm excited.
Martin Windmill

#64 Matt Sheldon

Matt Sheldon

    Duffy's HMI Executive

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,686 posts
  • Joined: 19-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Platteville, CO

Posted 07 November 2011 - 02:27 AM

Basically like these with body mounts as described in the article posted by Keith.

:D For the purest....

MURA FT16 Chassis.jpg


Awesome Bob, what size wire are those?
Matt Sheldon

#65 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,350 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:25 PM

Awesome Bob, what size wire are those?


Matt,
Went to the vault....

.0695 - thats through the bag and they are plated so I'd say .062 is the wire size.
Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#66 Matt Sheldon

Matt Sheldon

    Duffy's HMI Executive

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,686 posts
  • Joined: 19-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Platteville, CO

Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:27 PM

Thanks a ton Bob!
Matt Sheldon

#67 TSR

TSR

    The Dokktor is IN

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 41,518 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexifornia

Posted 07 November 2011 - 09:13 PM

I would like to know what happened to the Thingie movement after 68.

Martin,
You are looking at it! :laugh2:

Long live the Thingies! :)

#68 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,350 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 08 November 2011 - 12:23 AM

-----1966----

Garvic and Classic Thingies small.jpg

----1967-----

MCR Stinger cover.jpg

Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#69 Edo

Edo

    The Kinkie Thingie Kingie

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,179 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 08 November 2011 - 02:53 AM

Gentlemen, if I may:

why not run a Thingie proxy with NO RULES for once! ANYTHING GOES!

Just one rule, actually: any Thingie body, vintage, re-popped or contemporary custom made!

Just pick the track venues which would dictate a performance balance, i.e fast track vs slow curves ones, so that you wouldn't get only Wing cars's like toys.

Actually a second rule could be: your car breaks down on a track? Ooops, out of the race for good!

I mean let's see what you got under your Calvin Klein's, boys (metaphorically, off course)! :laugh2:

E

Long live the Thingies! :)

Just a bump from 2008 for those left behind ;)
A thing about Thingies
EdoTBertoglio - Maverick assembler (formerly troubled)

Finish Line: the movie

#70 macman

macman

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,099 posts
  • Joined: 31-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Charlotte, NC

Posted 12 November 2011 - 12:05 PM

Go Edo!!! & now for some Miss C pics???
Ben Kernan
Formerly of SARN

Yes, I am a sarcastic, smart-azz, know-it-all old bastard of a genius. 
What is old is new again... Retro... Gotta love it !!!
"May all your inlines be Retro, my son."
The Englelman: a truly superior design.
 

#71 JohnnySlotcar

JohnnySlotcar

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,896 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Barrington, IL

Posted 12 November 2011 - 05:10 PM

Lets go with a "spec" body and anything else[time period] goes!!! Turnout should be huge,so maybe "ultimate" qualifying should be the format kinda like drag racing?? Would allow many more entries.
John Austin

#72 Jairus

Jairus

    Body Painter Extraordinaire

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,200 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salem, OR

Posted 12 November 2011 - 06:03 PM

John, I don't want to spec any one thing for this race. Yeah... the last one was specified for 'Dynamic' but with all the Dynamic bits out there the range was still pretty wide open.
Problem with a spec body is then who produces it? Who gets the "Contract" and who makes some money?
I don't play politics like that and believe a wide open challenge is more interesting. (besides we have two or three guys who like to make their own bodies)

I was hoping that with the performance of "Replatron-DynaSlider" and "Wavemaker" in the current race, the general trend would push people to automatically choose the deep dish style Choti's as the most logical choice. But I have since heard guys wanting to run all sorts of stuff. If we limit it, that might turn some builders away.

As for Edo's Suggestion, I believe if he read my first few posts he will see that I have already picked two tracks and so the venue is "Balls Out Speed"! We have done the heavy is good proxy for the last three years already! In otherwords, heavy weight is OUT for this one and Aerodynamics and featherweight is IN! Other than that... the only rule would be (not yet set in stone) a 1970 cut off as to technology. Other than that this would be the least amount of rules we have ever had in a Thingie proxy race!

Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

www.slotcarsmag.com

www.jairuswatson.net
http://www.ratholecustoms.com
Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#73 Horsepower

Horsepower

    **Numb Thumbs**

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,167 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago

Posted 13 November 2011 - 12:52 AM

There has to be SOME rules, 'cause if not, then I might as well just enter a wing car. :unknw:
Gary Stelter

#74 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,350 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 13 November 2011 - 01:31 AM

BTW:

I saw Dan "Doc" Dougherty at the track Saturday night and spoke to him at length about the Heatsinks / Elephant ears that he designed and tested. While running up in Ohio, Ken McDowell spotted them on Doc's cars and said " Can you make me a batch for resale". Doc had the pattern and said "sure". So in late 1968, early 1969 they were in production and and being sold retail.


Jairus, please stick with the 1970 cut off on the cans Cans and Endbells and now we know the heatsinks are period correct.:)
Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#75 chief32s

chief32s

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 208 posts
  • Joined: 19-March 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Another 'Boro'

Posted 13 November 2011 - 05:39 AM

Whoops, see below.
Al 'The Chief' Bond

#76 chief32s

chief32s

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 208 posts
  • Joined: 19-March 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Another 'Boro'

Posted 13 November 2011 - 05:44 AM

I was hoping that with the performance of "Replatron-DynaSlider" and "Wavemaker" in the current race, the general trend would push people to automatically choose the deep dish style Choti's as the most logical choice. But I have since heard guys wanting to run all sorts of stuff. If we limit it, that might turn some builders away.

As for Edo's Suggestion, I believe if he read my first few posts he will see that I have already picked two tracks and so the venue is "Balls Out Speed"! We have done the heavy is good proxy for the last three years already! In otherwords, heavy weight is OUT for this one and Aerodynamics and featherweight is IN! Other than that... the only rule would be (not yet set in stone) a 1970 cut off as to technology. Other than that this would be the least amount of rules we have ever had in a Thingie proxy race!


I think the Choti inspired Balls out Thinge concept is fine as it is. I like Edo's suggestion of 'Anything goes' which sort of chimes with John H's suggestion to keep the rules to a bare minimum. Afterall, wasn't the thingie movement all about pushing the envelope, and experimenting? BTW, Jairus' max dims (3.25w x 2.0h x 8.0l) will stop anyone from entering a 'full on' wing car and the 2" max height could always be lowered if needs be.

My concern is technology... I'm quite happy to source an old motor and have John H rebuild it for me, but what about wheels, gears and bearings, guide etc. I guess the question is.... Is this to be a Thingie proxy in the spirit of the past (i.e the quest for speed and expermentation) or is this to be a Vintage Thingie proxy (i.e build a replica thingie or car that wouldn't have been out of place back in the day)? I don't think it can be both.


Respectfully
Al. (conceived and born in 1967 hehe, so who am I to talk)


PS

John H's suggestion are repeated below

I think key to all this is pretty simple:

1)make as few rules as possible, but stick to them without exceptions
2)look at "the spirit" of the time frame for guidance.
3)Rules should be designed for both "fairness" so no one has say a modern G7 motor in their car, but also for "inclusiveness" so as many people can join in as want to. I wouldn't include any modern motors (D or C cans) unless you wanted to setup a "modern thingie" race because lots of people would probably just get one of those.
4)Don't get so hung up writing rules

It could be as simple as:

1/16" track clearance, 3 1/4" width, Choti body, any motor up to Mura B and C motor, any period chassis (manufactured or scratchbuilt) or modern scratchbuilt. Why make things more complicated than they need be?

-john


Al 'The Chief' Bond

#77 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,385 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 13 November 2011 - 07:58 AM

Gary is of course correct in that if there were a "no-rules" thingie race, that would in fact be an open wing car race. By limiting the motor to a certain cutoff date alone, you've gone very far in stopping that from happening. Some might choose to "cheat", but magnets should be single ceramics. I guess that most would opt to run Mura and maybe some Champion C-cans, but you could probably do fine with a Mabuchi can, Mura magnets and a Mura "A" motor endbell. As far as tires (fronts or rears), I don't see any reason at all to limit tire sizes or types as that's just a complication that really doesn't affect the spirit of the race. Same goes with gears and, in my mind, guides or axles. People will be building very light chassis with aero/handling/Choti bodies where the body is all anyway.

Here's the thing, I understand why people feel competitive with this stuff...it will be a "race" after all. I don't understand why people need to get "that" competitive. With the current Proxy, I'm just stoked to be in the race and I didn't enter it to win. I figure I've "won" just by having my car still being "in there" with no rebuilds and the original brushes and everything after what is it...5 or 6 races or something? Personally, I might just enter a modded Mabuchi in this just as a personal challenge if it comes off. I have some good perimeter-type all-wire chassis designs that would work just fine for this type of race. Then again...I was never a racer even in the 60's, although I admired those who were.

Al makes some good points above...but I respectfully disagree that the race cannot be both in the spirit of the Thingie movement of the day AND allow for modern parts as a matter of convenience. Modern guides/tires/gears with a motor/clearance/body limit does in fact handle everything that needs to be handled for the race to be competitive but not be exclusive because of difficult to source parts OR parts that will unnecessarily cause breakdowns. The side benefit is that the "modern" parts could, would and should be bought from the track owners who deserve some consideration in all this. After all, there wouldn't still be slot racing without them!

-john
John Havlicek

#78 JohnnySlotcar

JohnnySlotcar

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,896 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Barrington, IL

Posted 13 November 2011 - 08:43 AM

I'm in with John H.! One question would be the endbell hardware i.e. brush hoods,plates under them,use of "modern" Mura endbells.Would any arm be legal,seeing how the rewinders use modern blanks and comms, what about using any arm available to help those who are not rewinders?
John Austin

#79 Jairus

Jairus

    Body Painter Extraordinaire

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,200 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salem, OR

Posted 13 November 2011 - 09:49 AM

Yes, any arm should be legal. I suggested a #24 wind being about the peak of development with ceramic mags. But it is not as easy as it sounds...

I put together a nice little Mura "C" last night but my 20 24 Havlicek rewind won't fit. A vintage bubblegum arm fits with a cats wisker of clearance but generates heat like a space heater. Looking for some light brush springs.... but it sure sounds like it has the revs and is ALL VINTAGE!

Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

www.slotcarsmag.com

www.jairuswatson.net
http://www.ratholecustoms.com
Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#80 Jairus

Jairus

    Body Painter Extraordinaire

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,200 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salem, OR

Posted 13 November 2011 - 10:17 AM

Here is a pic of the motor so far. Also have a "B" can motor that already has a 20 24 Havlicek rewound arm in it. Was hoping to make this one just as powerful but seems that I am not the able motor builder John is.
Posted Image

At any rate, Ray Fellows came through earlier this week when two fresh minted Choti bodies arrived in the mail. (Thanks O2R!)
Hoping to construct a chassis soon which means testing at B.P. later.
Bryan Warmack agreed to do the testing btw.

Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

www.slotcarsmag.com

www.jairuswatson.net
http://www.ratholecustoms.com
Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#81 chief32s

chief32s

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 208 posts
  • Joined: 19-March 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Another 'Boro'

Posted 13 November 2011 - 11:19 AM

Al makes some good points above...but I respectfully disagree that the race cannot be both in the spirit of the Thingie movement of the day AND allow for modern parts as a matter of convenience. Modern guides/tires/gears with a motor/clearance/body limit does in fact handle everything that needs to be handled for the race to be competitive but not be exclusive because of difficult to source parts OR parts that will unnecessarily cause breakdowns. The side benefit is that the "modern" parts could, would and should be bought from the track owners who deserve some consideration in all this. After all, there wouldn't still be slot racing without them!


Sorry John, I don't think I made myself clear, I guess it should have read:

My concern is technology... I'm quite happy to source an old motor and have John H rebuild it for me, but what about wheels, gears, and bearings, guide, etc. I guess the question is.... Is this to be a Thingie proxy in the spirit of the past (i.e the quest for speed and expermentation) but allowing some modern parts, or is this to be a Vintage Thingie proxy (i.e build a replica thingie or car that wouldn't have been out of place back in the day), with vintage only parts? I don't think it can be both.


Evidently it can't be both hehe.

ATB,

Al

PS: That looks like a nice motor, J.
Al 'The Chief' Bond

#82 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,385 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 13 November 2011 - 11:38 AM

Ack Al...my apologies, you made it quite clear...I didn't read your post correctly! Yes, the all-vintage thing would be (in my opinion) way too exclusive and expensive. Back on track though, I'm thinking more and more that I would probably limit myself on purpose here as I mentioned above, just for the personal challenge. That would be fun within the basically "wide-open" format for me! Maybe use a Mura "A" or even a Mabuchi on purpose when everyone would be allowed up to and including a Mura Green can motor.

-john
John Havlicek

#83 Jairus

Jairus

    Body Painter Extraordinaire

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,200 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salem, OR

Posted 15 November 2011 - 11:43 AM

Made some progress on my test mule Sunday night. Soldered up a perimeter frame for the Choti body.

Posted Image

Yeah, I know that it looks suspiciously like a '90s wire wing car frame... but that is what is needed to support the body while at speed. I think straight brass pin tubes will not be enough. The center section is straight out of the Mura handbook though and the front axle and pin-tubes go on next.

Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

www.slotcarsmag.com

www.jairuswatson.net
http://www.ratholecustoms.com
Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#84 havlicek

havlicek

    OCD Rewinder

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,385 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NY

Posted 15 November 2011 - 12:03 PM

Lovely Jairus...and VERY close to what I will build.

-john
John Havlicek

#85 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,350 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 15 November 2011 - 12:06 PM

Looks Great Jairus..... Roll on :icon22:

It don't look like a Mule :umnik2:




Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#86 Jairus

Jairus

    Body Painter Extraordinaire

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,200 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salem, OR

Posted 15 November 2011 - 12:17 PM

Thanks guys but I think I will build my actual entry out of .055 wire instead of .062 wire and brass. Should drop a few grams that way.

Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

www.slotcarsmag.com

www.jairuswatson.net
http://www.ratholecustoms.com
Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#87 JohnnySlotcar

JohnnySlotcar

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,896 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Barrington, IL

Posted 16 November 2011 - 11:45 PM

Hmmmmm, I think I've got it! Details to come.
John Austin

#88 draggon

draggon

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 111 posts
  • Joined: 17-October 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fremont, CA

Posted 23 November 2011 - 12:15 AM

Guys, I was there an done all that. All that has been discussed is fine and all, but it doesnt count. The formula was a wire frame similar to a UGo but with a drop arm. A Choti body was manditory, with no aero devices save a big flat plane on the outer side of the body.This was good for almost every open comp in the East Bay, CA the hotbed of thingies. We had the fourmula down so well, that in open comp, we could pound the NSRA guys into the ground. I have to reinfoirce, that this combo won just about everything in the Bay Area in the late 60's I know becuase I was the one that won. Sorry if I am seeming conceited, but thats the facts, and any one is welcome to challenge! My local track actually told me to go home because we had to formula down so well that we didnt lose.
Glenn Asher

#89 Jairus

Jairus

    Body Painter Extraordinaire

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,200 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salem, OR

Posted 23 November 2011 - 12:58 AM

So Glenn.... are you up for the challenge. Again?

Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

www.slotcarsmag.com

www.jairuswatson.net
http://www.ratholecustoms.com
Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#90 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,350 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 23 November 2011 - 02:45 AM

Glenn,
Great story, glad you found this topic!
Do you have any pictures of any cars, chassis and/or motors to share?
What is "a big flat plane on the outer side of the body" ... a vertical clear wing on one or both sides?

Please join in the fun.....
Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#91 draggon

draggon

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 111 posts
  • Joined: 17-October 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fremont, CA

Posted 23 November 2011 - 12:40 PM

Hi Jairus! Yea Im up to the challenge. I actually have managed to get a set of front and rear wheels/tires and a choti body, but got stalled out when the motor brackets I bought had the holes for the motor mounting screws in the wrong place. I also got sort of put off by the prices of set up jigs. Way back when I used a piece of pine with asbestos glued to it. The hands are not as steady anymore so I really need a jig. I'd love to get a really retro east bay thingie built. I loved those cars!

Yea, Bob, I meant a verticle wing but couldnt find the words last night! Geez I wish I had some cars or at least pics left. I had a mint group 12 left over from the days I raced at Oakland speedway but gave it away about 15 years ago. In 2005 I was going thru my parents house preparing it for an estate sale and found almost all of my old scratchbuilt frames in a drawer in my Dad's workshop. The nefarious estate sales people cleaned the house out too well, and took all that stuff. They probably had no idea what they were looking at. I scan ebay a lot hoping that something of mine might show up someday.
Glenn Asher

#92 Jairus

Jairus

    Body Painter Extraordinaire

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,200 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salem, OR

Posted 23 November 2011 - 02:47 PM

Glenn, the dates have not been set for this race so you have time. Plenty of time!

Jig blocks are available through a Slotblog member, Rick Bernardo at R-Geo. His products are quite good and what I use.

Posted Image

Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

www.slotcarsmag.com

www.jairuswatson.net
http://www.ratholecustoms.com
Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!


#93 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,350 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 28 November 2011 - 11:25 AM

Hi Jairus! Yea Im up to the challenge. I actually have managed to get a set of front and rear wheels/tires and a choti body, but got stalled out when the motor brackets I bought had the holes for the motor mounting screws in the wrong place. I also got sort of put off by the prices of set up jigs. Way back when I used a piece of pine with asbestos glued to it. The hands are not as steady anymore so I really need a jig. I'd love to get a really retro east bay thingie built. I loved those cars!

Yea, Bob, I meant a verticle wing but couldnt find the words last night! Geez I wish I had some cars or at least pics left. I had a mint group 12 left over from the days I raced at Oakland speedway but gave it away about 15 years ago. In 2005 I was going thru my parents house preparing it for an estate sale and found almost all of my old scratchbuilt frames in a drawer in my Dad's workshop. The nefarious estate sales people cleaned the house out too well, and took all that stuff. They probably had no idea what they were looking at. I scan ebay a lot hoping that something of mine might show up someday.


Glenn, One on one side or two vert. wings? How tall, how thick?

Sounds like "The Missing Link" to modern day "wing" cars.

Anyone have a picture, I don't remember one wing cars, I missed the 69-73 time frame.
Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#94 Edo

Edo

    The Kinkie Thingie Kingie

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,179 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 28 November 2011 - 02:42 PM

Hi Bob
Look here, you will see a Onewinger Choti, a repop by Ray Fellows (one27ray) after a suggestion from Dave Larsen:

http://slotblog.net/...s/page__st__260

Post 267

hi Glenn longtime no see on Slotforum!
Welcome back!

Edo
EdoTBertoglio - Maverick assembler (formerly troubled)

Finish Line: the movie

#95 Howmet TX

Howmet TX

    On The Lead Lap

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 363 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 28 November 2011 - 03:35 PM

Welcome back yourself, Kingie!

John Dilworth


#96 draggon

draggon

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 111 posts
  • Joined: 17-October 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fremont, CA

Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:45 PM

Edo, good to see you, yea long time eh? Bob, we had one verticle wing, placed on the inside edge of the body as through the main bank. In other words, in a left hand bank it would be on the left side of the body. It was around 2 1/2 inches high. As I remember. anything larger seemed to have a negative effect on opposite turns. We tried wings on both sides, which didnt work, it seems the air over the body against one wing was better. Just think "Sprint Car wings". We also tried connecting two verticle wings with a horizontal wing, but it provided too much drag. You could really feel how much it sucked the car down at top speed. The best combo was a Choti with one wing on a jail door with a 1" solid brass drop arm ( much against what Phillipe has proven to be fast ) 2 or 3 piano wire rails with floppies, either brass rail or a small 3/8 wide brass plate. I have the beginnings to start one, but the pesty g/f is using my camera. Do you guys know if the Dynamic # 343 motor bracket is for a 16d or 26d? I have a few of them to start my frame, but something doesnt seem right. Ive given the g/f the edict to get my camera back, and will share some pics with you soon as I can.
Glenn Asher

#97 draggon

draggon

    Mid-Pack Racer

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 111 posts
  • Joined: 17-October 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fremont, CA

Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:57 PM

Ray's one-winger is real close to what ours looked like. Darn, I love it! The awesomeness of these choti's on a high speed nor cal track was amazing. Can you imagine I won an open comp race with one of these with an inline chassis in 1969? Everyone else had those NSRA anglewinders. Sheesh. Thats why I love "run whatcha brung". I was over the top happy knowing out supposedly "outdated" equipment put them in their place.
Glenn Asher

#98 32Deuce

32Deuce

    non-recovering slotaholic

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 224 posts
  • Joined: 25-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA

Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:47 AM

Glenn,
The Dynamic #343 bracket is for the G.E. motor.
Z
Mike Zimmerman
Posted Image

#99 MantaRay

MantaRay

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,859 posts
  • Joined: 05-March 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicagoland

Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:26 AM

Would this chassis be a good start? Is it a Ugo

DSC03888.JPG
Ray Price
11/4/49-1/23/15
Requiescat in Pace

#100 Jairus

Jairus

    Body Painter Extraordinaire

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,200 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salem, OR

Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:49 AM

I have tried twice to purchase a U-Go chassis off eBay and been outbid both times. YES, it's a great start, Ray!

Would be fun during the interim of the completion of the "Dynamic Challenge", that we do a little testing... yeah? ^_^

Jairus H Watson - Artist
Need something painted, soldered, carved, or killed? - jairuswtsn@aol.com

www.slotcarsmag.com

www.jairuswatson.net
http://www.ratholecustoms.com
Check out some of the cool stuff on my Fotki!






Electric Dreams Online Shop