475 replies to this topic

[chief32s]

I was hoping that with the performance of "Replatron-DynaSlider" and "Wavemaker" in the current race, the general trend would push people to automatically choose the deep dish style Choti's as the most logical choice. But I have since heard guys wanting to run all sorts of stuff. If we limit it, that might turn some builders away.

As for Edo's Suggestion, I believe if he read my first few posts he will see that I have already picked two tracks and so the venue is "Balls Out Speed"! We have done the heavy is good proxy for the last three years already! In otherwords, heavy weight is OUT for this one and Aerodynamics and featherweight is IN! Other than that... the only rule would be (not yet set in stone) a 1970 cut off as to technology. Other than that this would be the least amount of rules we have ever had in a Thingie proxy race!

I think the Choti inspired Balls out Thinge concept is fine as it is. I like Edo's suggestion of 'Anything goes' which sort of chimes with John H's suggestion to keep the rules to a bare minimum. Afterall, wasn't the thingie movement all about pushing the envelope, and experimenting? BTW, Jairus' max dims (3.25w x 2.0h x 8.0l) will stop anyone from entering a 'full on' wing car and the 2" max height could always be lowered if needs be.

My concern is technology... I'm quite happy to source an old motor and have John H rebuild it for me, but what about wheels, gears and bearings, guide etc. I guess the question is.... Is this to be a Thingie proxy in the spirit of the past (i.e the quest for speed and expermentation) or is this to be a Vintage Thingie proxy (i.e build a replica thingie or car that wouldn't have been out of place back in the day)? I don't think it can be both.


Respectfully
Al. (conceived and born in 1967 hehe, so who am I to talk)


PS

John H's suggestion are repeated below

I think key to all this is pretty simple:

1)make as few rules as possible, but stick to them without exceptions
2)look at "the spirit" of the time frame for guidance.
3)Rules should be designed for both "fairness" so no one has say a modern G7 motor in their car, but also for "inclusiveness" so as many people can join in as want to. I wouldn't include any modern motors (D or C cans) unless you wanted to setup a "modern thingie" race because lots of people would probably just get one of those.
4)Don't get so hung up writing rules

It could be as simple as:

1/16" track clearance, 3 1/4" width, Choti body, any motor up to Mura B and C motor, any period chassis (manufactured or scratchbuilt) or modern scratchbuilt. Why make things more complicated than they need be?

-john

[havlicek]

Gary is of course correct in that if there were a "no-rules" thingie race, that would in fact be an open wing car race. By limiting the motor to a certain cutoff date alone, you've gone very far in stopping that from happening. Some might choose to "cheat", but magnets should be single ceramics. I guess that most would opt to run Mura and maybe some Champion C-cans, but you could probably do fine with a Mabuchi can, Mura magnets and a Mura "A" motor endbell. As far as tires (fronts or rears), I don't see any reason at all to limit tire sizes or types as that's just a complication that really doesn't affect the spirit of the race. Same goes with gears and, in my mind, guides or axles. People will be building very light chassis with aero/handling/Choti bodies where the body is all anyway.

Here's the thing, I understand why people feel competitive with this stuff...it will be a "race" after all. I don't understand why people need to get "that" competitive. With the current Proxy, I'm just stoked to be in the race and I didn't enter it to win. I figure I've "won" just by having my car still being "in there" with no rebuilds and the original brushes and everything after what is it...5 or 6 races or something? Personally, I might just enter a modded Mabuchi in this just as a personal challenge if it comes off. I have some good perimeter-type all-wire chassis designs that would work just fine for this type of race. Then again...I was never a racer even in the 60's, although I admired those who were.

Al makes some good points above...but I respectfully disagree that the race cannot be both in the spirit of the Thingie movement of the day AND allow for modern parts as a matter of convenience. Modern guides/tires/gears with a motor/clearance/body limit does in fact handle everything that needs to be handled for the race to be competitive but not be exclusive because of difficult to source parts OR parts that will unnecessarily cause breakdowns. The side benefit is that the "modern" parts could, would and should be bought from the track owners who deserve some consideration in all this. After all, there wouldn't still be slot racing without them!

-john

[JohnnySlotcar]

I'm in with John H.! One question would be the endbell hardware i.e. brush hoods,plates under them,use of "modern" Mura endbells.Would any arm be legal,seeing how the rewinders use modern blanks and comms, what about using any arm available to help those who are not rewinders?

[Jairus]

Yes, any arm should be legal. I suggested a #24 wind being about the peak of development with ceramic mags. But it is not as easy as it sounds...

I put together a nice little Mura "C" last night but my 20 24 Havlicek rewind won't fit. A vintage bubblegum arm fits with a cats wisker of clearance but generates heat like a space heater. Looking for some light brush springs.... but it sure sounds like it has the revs and is ALL VINTAGE!

[Jairus]

Here is a pic of the motor so far. Also have a "B" can motor that already has a 20 24 Havlicek rewound arm in it. Was hoping to make this one just as powerful but seems that I am not the able motor builder John is.


At any rate, Ray Fellows came through earlier this week when two fresh minted Choti bodies arrived in the mail. (Thanks O2R!)
Hoping to construct a chassis soon which means testing at B.P. later.
Bryan Warmack agreed to do the testing btw.

[chief32s]

Al makes some good points above...but I respectfully disagree that the race cannot be both in the spirit of the Thingie movement of the day AND allow for modern parts as a matter of convenience. Modern guides/tires/gears with a motor/clearance/body limit does in fact handle everything that needs to be handled for the race to be competitive but not be exclusive because of difficult to source parts OR parts that will unnecessarily cause breakdowns. The side benefit is that the "modern" parts could, would and should be bought from the track owners who deserve some consideration in all this. After all, there wouldn't still be slot racing without them!

Sorry John, I don't think I made myself clear, I guess it should have read:

My concern is technology... I'm quite happy to source an old motor and have John H rebuild it for me, but what about wheels, gears, and bearings, guide, etc. I guess the question is.... Is this to be a Thingie proxy in the spirit of the past (i.e the quest for speed and expermentation) but allowing some modern parts, or is this to be a Vintage Thingie proxy (i.e build a replica thingie or car that wouldn't have been out of place back in the day), with vintage only parts? I don't think it can be both.

Evidently it can't be both hehe.

ATB,

Al

PS: That looks like a nice motor, J.

[havlicek]

Ack Al...my apologies, you made it quite clear...I didn't read your post correctly! Yes, the all-vintage thing would be (in my opinion) way too exclusive and expensive. Back on track though, I'm thinking more and more that I would probably limit myself on purpose here as I mentioned above, just for the personal challenge. That would be fun within the basically "wide-open" format for me! Maybe use a Mura "A" or even a Mabuchi on purpose when everyone would be allowed up to and including a Mura Green can motor.

-john

[Jairus]

Made some progress on my test mule Sunday night. Soldered up a perimeter frame for the Choti body.



Yeah, I know that it looks suspiciously like a '90s wire wing car frame... but that is what is needed to support the body while at speed. I think straight brass pin tubes will not be enough. The center section is straight out of the Mura handbook though and the front axle and pin-tubes go on next.

[havlicek]

Lovely Jairus...and VERY close to what I will build.

-john

[Gator Bob]

Looks Great Jairus..... Roll on

It don't look like a Mule

[Jairus]

Thanks guys but I think I will build my actual entry out of .055 wire instead of .062 wire and brass. Should drop a few grams that way.

[JohnnySlotcar]

Hmmmmm, I think I've got it! Details to come.

[draggon]

Guys, I was there an done all that. All that has been discussed is fine and all, but it doesnt count. The formula was a wire frame similar to a UGo but with a drop arm. A Choti body was manditory, with no aero devices save a big flat plane on the outer side of the body.This was good for almost every open comp in the East Bay, CA the hotbed of thingies. We had the fourmula down so well, that in open comp, we could pound the NSRA guys into the ground. I have to reinfoirce, that this combo won just about everything in the Bay Area in the late 60's I know becuase I was the one that won. Sorry if I am seeming conceited, but thats the facts, and any one is welcome to challenge! My local track actually told me to go home because we had to formula down so well that we didnt lose.

[Jairus]

So Glenn.... are you up for the challenge. Again?

[Gator Bob]

Glenn,
Great story, glad you found this topic!
Do you have any pictures of any cars, chassis and/or motors to share?
What is "a big flat plane on the outer side of the body" ... a vertical clear wing on one or both sides?

Please join in the fun.....

[draggon]

Hi Jairus! Yea Im up to the challenge. I actually have managed to get a set of front and rear wheels/tires and a choti body, but got stalled out when the motor brackets I bought had the holes for the motor mounting screws in the wrong place. I also got sort of put off by the prices of set up jigs. Way back when I used a piece of pine with asbestos glued to it. The hands are not as steady anymore so I really need a jig. I'd love to get a really retro east bay thingie built. I loved those cars!

Yea, Bob, I meant a verticle wing but couldnt find the words last night! Geez I wish I had some cars or at least pics left. I had a mint group 12 left over from the days I raced at Oakland speedway but gave it away about 15 years ago. In 2005 I was going thru my parents house preparing it for an estate sale and found almost all of my old scratchbuilt frames in a drawer in my Dad's workshop. The nefarious estate sales people cleaned the house out too well, and took all that stuff. They probably had no idea what they were looking at. I scan ebay a lot hoping that something of mine might show up someday.

[Jairus]

Glenn, the dates have not been set for this race so you have time. Plenty of time!

Jig blocks are available through a Slotblog member, Rick Bernardo at R-Geo. His products are quite good and what I use.

[Gator Bob]

Hi Jairus! Yea Im up to the challenge. I actually have managed to get a set of front and rear wheels/tires and a choti body, but got stalled out when the motor brackets I bought had the holes for the motor mounting screws in the wrong place. I also got sort of put off by the prices of set up jigs. Way back when I used a piece of pine with asbestos glued to it. The hands are not as steady anymore so I really need a jig. I'd love to get a really retro east bay thingie built. I loved those cars!

Yea, Bob, I meant a verticle wing but couldnt find the words last night! Geez I wish I had some cars or at least pics left. I had a mint group 12 left over from the days I raced at Oakland speedway but gave it away about 15 years ago. In 2005 I was going thru my parents house preparing it for an estate sale and found almost all of my old scratchbuilt frames in a drawer in my Dad's workshop. The nefarious estate sales people cleaned the house out too well, and took all that stuff. They probably had no idea what they were looking at. I scan ebay a lot hoping that something of mine might show up someday.

Glenn, One on one side or two vert. wings? How tall, how thick?

Sounds like "The Missing Link" to modern day "wing" cars.

Anyone have a picture, I don't remember one wing cars, I missed the 69-73 time frame.

[Edo]

Hi Bob
Look here, you will see a Onewinger Choti, a repop by Ray Fellows (one27ray) after a suggestion from Dave Larsen:

http://slotblog.net/...s/page__st__260

Post 267

hi Glenn longtime no see on Slotforum!
Welcome back!

Edo

[Howmet TX]

Welcome back yourself, Kingie!

[draggon]

Edo, good to see you, yea long time eh? Bob, we had one verticle wing, placed on the inside edge of the body as through the main bank. In other words, in a left hand bank it would be on the left side of the body. It was around 2 1/2 inches high. As I remember. anything larger seemed to have a negative effect on opposite turns. We tried wings on both sides, which didnt work, it seems the air over the body against one wing was better. Just think "Sprint Car wings". We also tried connecting two verticle wings with a horizontal wing, but it provided too much drag. You could really feel how much it sucked the car down at top speed. The best combo was a Choti with one wing on a jail door with a 1" solid brass drop arm ( much against what Phillipe has proven to be fast ) 2 or 3 piano wire rails with floppies, either brass rail or a small 3/8 wide brass plate. I have the beginnings to start one, but the pesty g/f is using my camera. Do you guys know if the Dynamic # 343 motor bracket is for a 16d or 26d? I have a few of them to start my frame, but something doesnt seem right. Ive given the g/f the edict to get my camera back, and will share some pics with you soon as I can.

[draggon]

Ray's one-winger is real close to what ours looked like. Darn, I love it! The awesomeness of these choti's on a high speed nor cal track was amazing. Can you imagine I won an open comp race with one of these with an inline chassis in 1969? Everyone else had those NSRA anglewinders. Sheesh. Thats why I love "run whatcha brung". I was over the top happy knowing out supposedly "outdated" equipment put them in their place.

[32Deuce]

Glenn,
The Dynamic #343 bracket is for the G.E. motor.
Z

[MantaRay]

Would this chassis be a good start? Is it a Ugo

[Jairus]

I have tried twice to purchase a U-Go chassis off eBay and been outbid both times. YES, it's a great start, Ray!

Would be fun during the interim of the completion of the "Dynamic Challenge", that we do a little testing... yeah?