Jump to content




Photo

Duffy's Inks


  • Please log in to reply
140 replies to this topic

#76 Duffy

Duffy

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,791 posts
  • Joined: 25-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Geographically Brooklyn, Politically Berkeley

Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:52 AM

This reminds me of when I started lining cars with the black Sharpy, then I started detailing interiors, and here I am. It always happens in this hobby.

[Cackles evilly, rubs hands] We GOT 'im!!....
My friend Prof. Fate was fond of saying "this hobby was invented by 16-year-old boys" (who, according to him, had invented stick & tissue model airplanes four years earlier, three decades previous!!) - and there's an element of that particularly in the guys who build & paint. It also ties in with another Fate codgerism, "I'm never so in control of my life as when I'm at my workbench - nor so completely responsible for what I produce."
I think the real blessing in modeling is how it's not tied to our Real Lives; we can quite literally hew our own path here, wherever we want & at our own pace. That's a gift in this constricted world.
 

Did you practice a lot like Noose suggested before you lettered a car, or did you just start right away ? What kind of materials and tools do you keep around to fix mistakes ?

I wanna get into some particulars with this (especially now that some of us're actually into the discussion of particulars), but I gotta wait 'til I've tooled up to paint again - a few days.

But, "Did I practice" -

I'm a Southpaw, and it's been a lifelong battle just to get a cursive script others can read. Best thing I ever did was to stumble on a Calligraphy workbook written by the wondrous graphic artist David Lance Goines - you can still get it - that finally trained me about shaping the letters so that they work. So, practice - yah, by accident and necessity I got a skill. Actually went pro for a while, doing wedding docs & such.
I think you'll know how much practice you need once you try a few strokes on a test piece. You'll know when you're confident enough to do the real thing.
Another thing: there's "practice" and then there's "exercise." Like any learned motion (including, as I'm learning the very hard way, driving a slot car), you can know the motions you need to get the brush down & around & up, but it's much later that that knowledge becomes second nature. The brain learns first, the natural unthought motion in the hand is, well, up to the hand. One day you'll notice you're not having such a hard time, and you'll smile at the surprise.

"Start right away" -

Probably.
There's one thing you want to do right away, and that's to get it into your sense that nothing is Precious. There's no one-time thing in your hobby, no Monument you're doing where one wrong chip and David's flawed forever; you can have fun screwing up and moving on. Boatbuilder Pete Culler said, "There will be lumps, and what of it? Build it now. The water won't know, and you'll build one much less lumpy later on."
Another way to say is, don't get too attached to it. Nothing's Precious, least of all something you're fully accepting will likely bash into a wall. Fate: "THEY ARE ALL DOOMED."

All this gobblygook adds up to, get confident that you can paint what you want once you begin it. Yah, practice your skills off the workpiece, and then that workpiece will also be practice for the next.
& so on.

I'm actually starting a little notepad of things I wanna address about this learning-to-paint thing, so I remember once I start to type 'em out. Thanks, Mike, for asking the right questions.
As I say repeatedly here, I'm by no means any expert on this, and I beg the real painters to chime in; but by my noobie-ness I might be ideally poised express all the little fiddly bits I discover, all the things the real painters know, do, and have forgotten they learned.

Duf
  • Gator Bob likes this
Michael J. Heinrich
1950-2016
Requiescat in Pace
 
And I am awaiting
perpetually and forever
a renaissance of wonder




#77 macman

macman

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,108 posts
  • Joined: 31-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Charlotte, NC

Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:04 PM

Duffy; you are a trip!!!

 I understand your concept that if you are going to be a rolling roadblock to the other drivers, at least you are going to be the best looking one on the track!!!  I went thru that phase in the late'80s/early '90s, culminated in taking 1/32 euro-sport concours at the '90 nats... Have also gotten to judge lots of concours. Having the best looking body on the track is great... Knowing you actually did it yourself is even better. But there is one other thing to keep in mind. Which is better, to win concours, or to win the race?? I only know one driver capable of doing both; PA Watson... 

 

Keep up the good work, the lettering thing is beyond me, I will leave it to you.... sometime you should look at doing stencils for your sponsors... like this

Attached Images

  • Stencil 1.jpg

Ben Kernan
Formerly of SARN

Yes, I am a sarcastic, smart-azz, know-it-all old bastard of a genius. 
What is old is new again... Retro... Gotta love it !!!
"May all your inlines be Retro, my son."
The Englelman: a truly superior design.
 

#78 Duffy

Duffy

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,791 posts
  • Joined: 25-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Geographically Brooklyn, Politically Berkeley

Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:20 AM

I guess the presumption that I've made some either/or choice here is easy when you're not looking at the back story; be advised, that's not the case with me. This thread's about the painting, and I figure I can have some fun with myself here. But this isn't all I'm trying to improve.

Can you share with us how you do your stenciling, please?

Duf
Michael J. Heinrich
1950-2016
Requiescat in Pace
 
And I am awaiting
perpetually and forever
a renaissance of wonder

#79 Mikey

Mikey

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 21 posts
  • Joined: 06-February 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Horsepower, OH

Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:26 PM

Thank you Duffy for your comments and your help. The "nothing is precious" tip is so true. I learned that right away when I started to airbrush my own bodies.

 

I am also starting to build my own Retro chasis as I also learn to hand paint.

 

I did think about getting some book on fonts.

 

I will be looking for some tips on fixing mistakes and looking forward to your future posts.

 

As Frank at Rt.93 used to say (that's where I race), "I'll be craft'in"

 

Thanks, Mikey     


Mike Gerbetz

#80 Mikey

Mikey

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 21 posts
  • Joined: 06-February 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Horsepower, OH

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:33 PM

Any ideas on acheiving a flat black area on the outside of a lexan body ? Will primer then flat black paint work ?

Mikey


Mike Gerbetz

#81 Mike Patterson

Mike Patterson

    Village Luddite™

  • Subscriber
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,224 posts
  • Joined: 14-October 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Zanesville, OH

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:38 PM

Any ideas on acheiving a flat black area on the outside of a lexan body ? Will primer then flat black paint work ?

Mikey

Use flat black paint on the outside of the body.


"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin


#82 Mikey

Mikey

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 21 posts
  • Joined: 06-February 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Horsepower, OH

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:43 PM

OK Thank you Mike. I was just making sure, you know how us beginners are. Over think things sometimes. Wondering if there is any secret slot car magic to be found. 

Mikey


Mike Gerbetz

#83 Duffy

Duffy

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,791 posts
  • Joined: 25-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Geographically Brooklyn, Politically Berkeley

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:04 PM

Beginner or no, I regularly catch myself and ask:

"...Am I overthinking?

"........Am I overthinking ENOUGH??....."

 

There's plenty of secret slot car magic to be found, we're making it up all the time. That's why this is such a great hobby. - You didn't know that?

 

Duf


Michael J. Heinrich
1950-2016
Requiescat in Pace
 
And I am awaiting
perpetually and forever
a renaissance of wonder

#84 Tex

Tex

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,049 posts
  • Joined: 07-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denton, TX

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:12 PM

One of the Texas racers is in the habit of painting a solid flat color on the outside of his bodies. He says it makes it easier for him to pick out his car with his old eyes... no glossy glare from overhead lights.


Richard L. Hofer

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and a block behind.

#85 macman

macman

    Checkered Flag in Hand

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,108 posts
  • Joined: 31-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Charlotte, NC

Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:57 PM

I assume your intent is to enjoy yourself, & you do. Its your thread so your wish is my command ! 


First off, my memory of this process is somewhat cobwebbed since the actual work was done 19 years ago when I worked for SARN & had Photoshop on the computer in-front of me... 


Scan the logo into Photoshop or something equivalent. I don't remember exactly what file format I saved it as, but it was what ever we used for black & white line art. Then I resized to fit the area on the body I was going to fill. Next print out a copy for each color you are going to use; then on each copy, cut out where you want the paint to go. For one use stencils transfer this cut-out to masking tape stuck to a sheet of glass; Cut out with a sharp x-acto knife & apply. CARFULLY burnish to seal the masking tape before you paint. I have always used lacquer, so I can't make any suggestions about using Fascolor, as it didn't exist back then. Repeat as necessary for other colors. Since you are basically doing everything in reverse, (you are working inside of the body) some thought is required as to painting order, but it is better to work from dark to light, just like working with fogs.


If you want reusable stencils I believe one would use frisket paper... Never did it, but I read something to that effect in an article about painting in one of the Enthusiast back issues from the late '80s...


There, If I left anything out, someone else has probably explained it better somewhere else.


  • Joe Mig likes this
Ben Kernan
Formerly of SARN

Yes, I am a sarcastic, smart-azz, know-it-all old bastard of a genius. 
What is old is new again... Retro... Gotta love it !!!
"May all your inlines be Retro, my son."
The Englelman: a truly superior design.
 

#86 Duffy

Duffy

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,791 posts
  • Joined: 25-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Geographically Brooklyn, Politically Berkeley

Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:08 AM

Thanks, Ben. Um - my father used to say, "As Craftsmen, we must take our work seriously; but we're heading for trouble if we start taking ourselves seriously."

 

A couple guys, a page or two back, were discussing machine-cut vinyl masks & the processes. Maybe we can get something going, if anybody wants to talk about it.

Isn't Frisket that mask that comes on its own backing sheet? I played with the stuf in an earlier life, and I recall it was a bit stiffer than masking tape but not practical for stuffing inside our bods. Anybody who knows more, please pipe up.

I also messed with this real thin vinyl I got from Dick Blick, which can be coaxed around compound curves better than masking tape, & I tried doing fancy cut-out masks with it; but it was too limp and perfect hell to get in there, at least with my present limited finger facility. I went to piecing together things with masking tape after that. For me, the vinyl is good for backing up big surfaces around an area, but I couldn't work with it.

 

We should go into this in more depth. Anybody wants to hijack with some hard numbers, please do, or get a link here to a thread where this stuff is going on.

 

Duf


Michael J. Heinrich
1950-2016
Requiescat in Pace
 
And I am awaiting
perpetually and forever
a renaissance of wonder

#87 Mikey

Mikey

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 21 posts
  • Joined: 06-February 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Horsepower, OH

Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:10 PM

With the flat black I wanted to create that 1980's black nose piece used on asphalt late models. Not to mention other details that tend not to be glossy.

Mikey


Mike Gerbetz

#88 John Streisguth

John Streisguth

    Johnny VW

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,122 posts
  • Joined: 20-November 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangor, PA

Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:16 PM

Frisket is a type of vinyl (I think) mask that comes in various thickness and levels of adhesion.  It works well for cutting intricate work, and multiple layers.  The trick is finding the combination of the characteristics that works the way you like.  Biggest problem with the ones with low adhesion is they lift with very little exposure to solvents. In general, they are not as sticky as some of the heavier vinyls (like the yellow stuff from Parma). 

 

Just another tool that takes a little work to figure out. 


  • Duffy likes this
"Whatever..."

#89 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,923 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:28 PM

I find in most cases all of the vinyl masks lift even with a good burnishing. It is always the one on the main windscreen and not the side ones like on a GTC.  The trick then is to use a Q-tip with some solvent (I use lacquers) to remove the wee bit of overspray that does creep under. 

 

The vinyl "shapes" such flames and lightening bolts, etc. that Parma makes work very well though and very little bleeding occurs IMO.

 

One thing to remember.  Try to get to doing the painting soon after you have completed the taping.  What tends to happen if you mask bodies and let them sit  for too long the masking will lift.  You need to remember to rub it down again before you start painting if this is what you do.  Since I tend to do a lot of bodies at one time it is something I am very conscious of.

 

I have also used some artist frisket material and it worked OK on bodies.  A lot of times I just hand cut stuff from the masking tape.


  • Duffy and Gator Bob like this

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"
"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#90 Duffy

Duffy

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,791 posts
  • Joined: 25-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Geographically Brooklyn, Politically Berkeley

Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:01 PM

 The vinyl "shapes" such flames and lightening bolts, etc. that Parma makes work very well though and very little bleeding occurs IMO.

 

 

I was just thinking about these - they're so intricately cut and all narrow shapes (no large open areas in the mask) that they'll conform to any curve the shell throws at 'em! Sure they'll stay put without lifting, there're no compound curves to buckle in.

 

One of my biggest problems (and it ain't any too big, by comparison with shoveling a car out of snow or visiting your tax accountant; I mean, let's get real here, folks!) is with the static attraction of masks, any masks as far as I've seen, to the shell - I'll be tweezering something gingerly down inside there and just as it gets close, it blurps down like a dragonfly on fresh asphalt! I can never lay it down the first time.


Michael J. Heinrich
1950-2016
Requiescat in Pace
 
And I am awaiting
perpetually and forever
a renaissance of wonder

#91 Gator Bob

Gator Bob

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,350 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 11
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:04 PM

For those very serious about static ... http://www.gotopac.c...2_p/4002612.htm

 

I have 2 of these from work .... and it makes a Big difference in the 3'x6' coverage area. 

 

O3 generator ... ahaaaa the smell of a fresh rain scrubbed air. 

 

These help too ... if the clear body and the operator (tweezer) are are grounded thus providing a constant path for ESD. The ESD grounded mats and wrist straps will help. 

 

Not rubbing them on her wool sweater like a squeaky party balloons helps the most....  using two tweezers to place a mask, but then the body levitates.

 Call the tower and radio them to  'throw out the black flag'  before someone gets run over by the debris.


Posted Image
                            Bob Israelite

#92 Duffy

Duffy

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,791 posts
  • Joined: 25-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Geographically Brooklyn, Politically Berkeley

Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:12 PM

You are a bad man.


Michael J. Heinrich
1950-2016
Requiescat in Pace
 
And I am awaiting
perpetually and forever
a renaissance of wonder

#93 Duffy

Duffy

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,791 posts
  • Joined: 25-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Geographically Brooklyn, Politically Berkeley

Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:48 PM

An Inky Update of a work-in-progress...or, maybe more appropriate, Workus Interruptus:

 

I've been trying to lean more towards paintjobs that are at least evocative of the period; not direct copies at all, but having elements that are recognizable as from this or that car. The Lola T-163 above uses the D U F F Y side graphic in this manner, borrowing from the Porsche banners. We'll see more of these as I go, if I go.

 

Here, I started working through what I need to know in order to do a further exploration of another famous Porsche livery, using very long and narrow stripes. Timid as I am (no, really I am, really!), I started out semi-thick this time.

 

Masl v01.JPG

 

This mask job continues the practice of piecing up curvy & tapered elements from smaller bits. Even the long lines are narrow tape that might get a divergent piece added on toward the end to suggest a gentle taper or curve.

The curves of the body itself can be used to complement and contribute to this, too, as well as to hide any uneven spots. And as always, if you blow it at this point, it's five minutes to tear it out & try again, and the second time's always faster.

 

Now, here's what I wanted you to see with this: the color contrast.

 

Parma T70 02.JPG

 

I put down this metallic powder blue first, very like the Cooper-Ford blue from the Riverside cars but a little lighter; then I dida rusty red for the stripes. What's more contrasting than red and blue, right?

But there's another thing, and I can't think of the term for it - the comparative brightness of the two colors: these both have almost the same albedo, and if it was a greyscale pic they'd look like one solid color! s'True, I had a heck of a time painting a cheat line because my eye wouldn't see wheere the line was!

It shows here in the D U F F Y stripe - so much so that I will probably do a quick white "shadow" to give it a little pop.

 

Parma T70 01.JPG

 

I had intended from the start to do a narrow white cheat line (which also "curves up" the jerky tape mask), but as you see here it makes all the difference in the "pop" of the stripe.

I'll return to this bod in a few weeks: I don't have a Coupe event for a while, and I gotta paint up some other stuf.

 

Last thing, by special request for a friend:

I dragged a guy along to a race this weekend. He had a ball, racing loaners from Noose as luck had it (and had it bad) - crashed one. Afterwards as we were joking around about it, he snapped a pic of me posing all-forlorn, and had posted the pic even before I got home to see...

 

Duffy and The Brain.jpg

 

...Okay, remember, this is a guy I call "friend." I might want to revisit that.

The patter on the chat site was great, though. "Ooooo, Duffy's invoking his rarely-seen Superpower, Enormous Brain." - "What's Enormous Brain good for, anyway? It's not like he can use Laser Vision to solder the axle back...maybe he can stop up the A/C duct at just the right moment, but that's about it..."

 

Duf


Michael J. Heinrich
1950-2016
Requiescat in Pace
 
And I am awaiting
perpetually and forever
a renaissance of wonder

#94 Tex

Tex

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,049 posts
  • Joined: 07-July 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denton, TX

Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:36 PM

Dunno, Duf; looks like yer levitatin' the lead wires pretty good there with pure Enormous Brain power!


  • Duffy likes this
Richard L. Hofer

Remember, two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do! Only you're a block over and a block behind.

#95 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,923 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:17 AM

LOL I was thinking the same thing Tex.

 

Now Duffy, use your laser vision to get that front axle back on my car. 


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"
"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#96 Mikey

Mikey

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 21 posts
  • Joined: 06-February 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Horsepower, OH

Posted 06 March 2013 - 06:26 PM

Duffy,

 

What is the best tape to use for curved lines ? Masking tape you can form tight curves with ?

 

Mikey


Mike Gerbetz

#97 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,923 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:26 AM

Mikey,

 

Actually none IMO.  The Tamiya and Parma tapes can be "formed" a bit but you need to make absolutely sure they are firmly plated to the body as they will lift after some time.


Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"
"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.


#98 Mikey

Mikey

    Rookie Keyboard Racer

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 21 posts
  • Joined: 06-February 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Horsepower, OH

Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:54 PM

Ok. I saw some 3M tape in the Micro Mark book that may do some curves.

Any experience with that ?

 

Mikey  


Mike Gerbetz

#99 Duffy

Duffy

    a dearly-missed departed member

  • Member at Peace
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,791 posts
  • Joined: 25-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Geographically Brooklyn, Politically Berkeley

Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:41 PM

No tape is going to do curves and stay both flat and attached. Gentle bends, okay, if it's narrow enough. That's why I'm practicing with masking with two or more pieces on these things.

If the curve's going around some element and needs to be pretty curvy, I'll actually cut it out on the mat and apply it inside the shell; I might trim a little once it's there, or if it's really bad I'll tear it out and use it as a template for doing the right one.

 

I've been using Tamiya masking tape and I like it a lot; just enough tackiness, it's thin and flexible and it does take a little curve. Look on Amazon for it.

 

Another thing about curves: think about how the humps & lumps in your body might be complemented by long straight-er lines that will LOOK curvy in the final product. You may get some ideas.

 

Duf


Michael J. Heinrich
1950-2016
Requiescat in Pace
 
And I am awaiting
perpetually and forever
a renaissance of wonder

#100 Noose

Noose

    Grand Champion Poster

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,923 posts
  • Joined: 08-November 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denville, NJ

Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:12 PM

Yeah what he said.


  • Duffy likes this

Joe "Noose" Neumeister
Sometimes known as a serial despoiler of the clear purity of virgin Lexan bodies. Lexan is my canvas!
Noose Custom Painting - Since 1967
Chairman - IRRA® Body Committee - Roving IRRA® Tech Dude - "EVIL BUCKS Painter"
"Team Evil Bucks" Racer - 2016 Caribbean Retro Overall Champion
The only thing bad about Retro is admitting that you remember doing it originally.






Electric Dreams Online Shop