76 replies to this topic

[Don Wedding]

Jairus and Dok,

 

Also here is a Green Version with the wing riveted to the chassis just like the standard orange ones.

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[TSR]

Hi Don,

 

Also here is a Green Version with the wing riveted to the chassis just like the standard orange ones.

 

 

All the genuine Stinger wings have the rivets. But only the cars with the stripes and side shields are genuine RTR models. The others simply use a replacement body over an RTR chassis that lost its orange body.

 

Yes, the Stinger body was sold separately (without the wing as that was sold separately in either clear or painted, affixed to a card by the retaining pin to be used on the car itself) in either clear or painted form. Except that one could not purchase a spare body in the orange color, only in dark metallic red, medium metallic blue or medium metallic green. A similar red color exists, so it is possible that your example is genuine despite that the color does not appear to match the factory color, looks too purple on the picture, but that could be due to the picture's color balance.
 

The Stinger Roadster is quite a rare piece but came only as a kit, and only with a clear body that was never sold separately. None (except as noted below) were released to the public as factory painted. Please look at the front of the body on your model, the paint is not covering the inner part of the front fenders. This is customer painted, not factory. The factory paint at Classic on the later models was simply outstanding, fully covering all areas and with no over spray or defects of any kind. Most remarkable and almost unique in slot car history is that the bodies painted in two colors like the Serpent or Gamma Ray had EACH color masked, meaning that even inside the body there was no over spray.
 

Also, you unfortunately have a wrong interior in it: the genuine Stinger Roadster cockpit has the driver on the LEFT side of the car and is also made of clear plastic, with the driver molded in. The original interior is even harder to find than the body itself!

 

Regardless, it is a rare beast and you are lucky to own one.

 

Here are pictures of the kit:

 

 

 

it is the only complete example I have ever seen. I have seen a few empty boxes with a few built cars, and the late Ilmars Kersels, partner with Sam Bergman at Classic, gave me a display sample painted in blue and told me that no other were ever painted. This was in 1997.

[Jairus]

Once again, the illustrations are better than the actual product.

[SlotStox#53]

Love the artwork ! Love the shape of the Stinger, will definitely look out for when truescale puts the body back up. Gotta build one up

[Gator Bob]

This is the car that is shown in the Hoffman box above.

Look at the pic ... make all the 'cracks .... I'll be back to tell the story of what is and what isn't and why I think this car came with the 26D factory installed.

  Drool Cup Alert.

 

[TSR]

The stripes are not original, the front and rear tires are not original. The pinion on the motor does not look like an original Classic item for this car, they all had a small setscrew and a small "step" forming a boss for the screw, even the smallest ones on offer. As far as the body, it does not look like a factory painted model because the masking around the windows is not up to their standard, but could have been painted from a clear after-market item. The wing and the bracket look like items I used to sell about 12-15 years ago at Electric Dreams.

 

So Bob, what's YOUR story? 

[Don Wedding]

Dok, 

 

Here is another Stinger roadster I picked up about 10 years ago. You can tell that the interior was cut

 

out and a new interior was added. The pictures are not that great because they are taken with the car

 

displayed inside my case.  The front of the body is staring to curl up on the sides from age. It has the

 

same chassis as the pictures I posted of the red one. I have the original Stinger roadster box it came

 

in with the decals still uncut . After looking at the pictures you posted of the mint kit ,it looks like the

 

car had two figures inside. Is there 2 driver figures  inside ?

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[TSR]

Don,

no, there is just one clear plastic interior in the kit, but the injection molded driver head might be confusing. The blue example you show above is a real and correct body, and was (as all the ones in any other form than clear), customer painted, and is curling because the painter used too much lacquer thinner in his mix. The rear wheels are also incorrect, they are from an aftermarket set for a Stinger.

The Stinger Roadster has the same wheels as the Serpent and Gamma Ray, plain jobs of a smaller diameter but about twice the width. Correct rear wheels with correct red tires are not difficult to find or replicate because Classic sold a lot of them on aftermarket packaging.

 

 

The cockpit on your car being a right-hand job, it is not the original thing, which is very tough to find nowadays. Could be a Lancer or Russkit piece, hard to tell. The head looks like the Cox model.

 

[Don Wedding]

Dok,

 

   Thanks  for the information. But Let me ask this ,after looking at the Box art you can see that the driver is pictured on the right

 

side where as the Body is molded with the driver placed on the left side. Which came first the chicken or the egg.  Jairus

 

commented earlier about the artwork enhancing ,or not matching the actual finished product.

[TSR]

Whatever the box illustration depicts, the only sealed, original kit known to exist at this time shows the driver to be on the left of the body... This body has never been removed from the kit, ever.  

 

 

The proof is in the pudding. I have seen maybe two dozens of the assembled kit over the years, but very few had their original cockpit, maybe 3 or 4.

[Gator Bob]

The stripes are not original,

Correct -

the front and rear tires are not original.

Fronts are correct, rears are not but the originals are shown in the bag as they were in the box with the car. Gray...Not orange.

The pinion on the motor does not look like an original Classic item for this car, they all had a small setscrew and a small "step" forming a boss for the screw, even the smallest ones on offer.

Same pinion that is shown on the Stinger Roadster you show.

As far as the body, it does not look like a factory painted model because the masking around the windows is not up to their standard, but could have been painted from a clear after-market model.

Original body to this car. No out gassing damage for reasons unknown.

The wing and the bracket look like items I used to sell about 12-15 years ago at Electric Dreams.

They are are original and correct.

 

So Bob, what's YOUR story? 

The story ... you're writing a book, this is for your consideration.

 

The car came in this box that I won one ebay in 2000. IIRC I gave a lot of money for it. 

Every car in this box was Never On The Track. 

 

I have nothing to gain by showing you a fraud.

IMO, I this is a late factory assembled car with 'scrap' parts.

The 36D motor bracket was Not in the box.

 

 

Mvc-815s.jpg

 

This photo was downloaded from ebay and saved to be sure I received what was in the auction.

 

 

 

Dokk, look at the Testors car at the bottom left, it is in the LASCM now, You bought it from me in about 2001. You can attest to the fact that that car was never run and was in mint condition.

BTW:  Check out the condition of the Hoffman box ... like NOS... no grease, oil, tire staining or wear.

 

Specifically get a good look at the Stinger. The stripe and the rear tires.

The previous owner was not a mechanic ... at ... all. He tried to change wheels and tires on the Stinger and hacked the wheel wells. The originals in gray that came on this car were in the box and shown in the bag.

The stripe on the close ups of the car are from a GRC sticker set that I put on to replace the worn originals, subsequently I have purchased a very nice re-pop sticker stripe set to replace the GRC's.

 

It's a bastardized version, but I believe 100% that it came that way from the factory as a 26D.

 

Questions?

 

 

 

 

IMG_2246.JPGIMG_2251.JPGIMG_2252.JPGIMG_2254.JPGIMG_2253.JPGIMG_2255.JPGIMG_2247.JPGIMG_2249.JPGIMG_2250.JPG

[TSR]

Bob,

I am not going to argue. I must have had over 200 of those Stingers going through my hands, I also interviewed the guys at Classic in 1997 when their minds were stiff fresh with everything they did. Believe what you believe, but why would the past owner replace the stripes on a brand-new car, "never used"? 
In the meantime, no orange Stinger was ever supplied with gray tires (but those were available separately) and no orange Stinger was ever sold by the factory with an FT26. however it was real easy for the owner to make the switch, since the extra motor bracket was supplied with the car from early 1967 and he had a choice of 3 motors right over the counter. As far as the front tires, the originals have a flat tread, not a curved one, and have specific side markings.

[Gator Bob]

Bob,

I am not going to argue. I must have had over 200 of those Stingers going through my hands, I also interviewed the guys at Classic in 1997 when their minds were stiff fresh with everything they did. Believe what you believe, but why would the past owner replace the stripes on a brand-new car, "never used"? 

Look in the box - I changed the stickers - please re-read.
In the meantime, no orange Stinger was ever supplied with gray tires (but those were available separately) and no orange Stinger was ever sold by the factory with an FT26. however it was real easy for the owner to make the switch, since the extra motor bracket was supplied with the car from early 1967 and he had a choice of 3 motors right over the counter. As far as the front tires, the originals have a flat tread, not a curved one, and have specific side markings.

 

Please be a little more open minded as you consider this car and the 'story' that I provided. 

 

 

[dc-65x]

 

Please be a little more open minded.................

 

I don't know....Dokk can be.......hmmmm.........pretty firm in his beliefs

[TSR]

The proof is in the pudding... the issue here is that was (and still is) so easy to modify certain cars when they were new, because the parts were so available. So the only proof one has is the word of the actual manufacturers, from the mouth of the very gentlemen who were dictating what was to be produced. In the case of Classic, things are pretty clear since only the very last Stingers (and none were orange by that time) did receive FT26 motors, because that is what was left at the factory.

In the very recent past (I mean, this month!), I had long conversations with Don Williams (who now runs the Blackhawk Museum in Danville, CA). Don has a memory like an elephant. We discussed lots of details of the history of the Classic company, and he could only confirm what Ilmars Kersels (co-owner with Sam Bergman) and Clyde Baker (the man who put all these things in production) told me, along with factory records.

Hence... one can believe anything and be comfortable in his belief, but I have studied the evidence for long enough to be pretty firm in my opinion...
 

Now there are some other brands with still plenty of mystery, but Classic is not one of them.
 

[Gator Bob]

Dokk, please look at the facts presented without prejudice.

 

I don't know these guys so name dropping will not help change anything and I would doubt they remember every car built. 

 

Maybe this was 'the last' orange body they had. ???

 

BTW: Did the factory produced 26D models you speak of all use the set screw .078 pinion?

[TSR]

Bob,

We have plenty of examples at the LASCM and I added that to my list of pictures to take when I will be up there next.
 

The only genuine Stingers that were issued with a FT26 motor were made by the works in early 1968 and only with green bodies, because that is all what was left. By that time, the workforce had fallen from a high of THREE HUNDRED in 1966 down to TEN. That's how bad the crash was, few people really grasp it.

Those few green Stingers (Kersels and Baker were talking about less than 100 pieces) with the FT26 motors were all sold to REH in a process of liquidation of every slot car bit that was left at Classic. When I visited REH in 1992 and basically bought everything of value (to me) that was left, there were a few incomplete green cars, a few Stinger Roadster bodies (unpainted of course as none except the sample given to me by Ilmars Kersels was ever painted at the factory) and tons of chassis parts.

 

Also remember that retailers, raceway owners, modified brand-new cars to make them more marketable to their customers, so the man who bought that car may have either requested it or it came that way, modified by a retailer.

For many years, people kept telling me that the Classic Batmobiles came with those plastic "bat hubs", when it is patently false. The axles were too short to fit the plastic implements. But MANY retailers changed the axles to longer ones and added the BZ plastic bits to make the cars more attractive to their customers. The Cox SuperCuc came only with the Super NASCAR motors, but most failed, so Cox warrantied the cars to the retailers who fitted standard NASCAR "3600" motors to them, so it was possible for a customer to purchase one with that motor already installed, but the factory itself never installed the motor.

[Gator Bob]

Bump:

 

 Dokk: Did the factory produced 26D models you speak of all use the set screw .078 pinion?

[Gator Bob]

Nice item from a great seller .... a bit pricey, but if you need it there it is.

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item4d0ec9b050

[SlotStox#53]

Yeah I saw that today aswell Bob, nice example bit as you say a bit pricey.. still if you need an "original" spoiler then you will pay it.

[Bill from NH]

I wondered if the seller bought it for $0.98.

[SlotStox#53]

Who knows Bill.... Maybe .. or got it a bit more than that a yard sale !

[TSR]

The seller sold it, apparently for 80 bucks...

 

Getting back to the subject of the factory assembled Stinger fitted with the FT26D motor, here are pictures to make you understand what is real and what is not:
 

1/ Stinger with FT26D assembled from a body kit and a stinger chassis originally in the RTR box with the two motor brackets:

 

 

 

 

This has no factory stickers, meaning that it was put together from parts and is not "genuine".

 

2/ Stinger with FT26D assembled that way at the factory. The body has the factory stickers proving that it is a real RTR, not a car assembled from parts:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note how deformed the wing is from shrinkage due to a bit too much lacquer used to thin the paint. The whole thing is now hardened and can no longer function. The adhesive used on all the Classic stickers (as well as cars by Monogram, Cox, and many others in the day) on their RTR models eventually bleed through the paper, causing nasty looking stains. We never replace them for two reasons:

-keep the originality of the model.

-no one makes replacements that are matching the original product.

 

And...
 

 

Dokk: Did the factory produced 26D models you speak of all use the set screw .078 pinion?

 

The genuine FT26-equipped RTR models that we have found (only two so far...) and seen in another collection (only one)  have a 4-40 recessed setscrew holding the pinion. I should have rotated the wheels to show it.

[SlotStox#53]

Thanks for the what's real and what isn't info Dokk

It's really great seeing this Thingie in perfect condition.

Loved the look of this car the first time I saw the advert in a slot car magazine, will definitely have to look out for truescale to get the body back up for order, would love to make one up

[Gator Bob]

So Dokk,

On my Stinger ... now we are down to only the wrong color tires?

You said it had the wrong pinion but you show the same.

I told you I took off the original stickers ... you can see them still on the car in the full Hoffman box, that is a picture I copied off ebay at the time I won the bid. Not my picture, the sellers picture. Do you think I would 'hack' the wheel wells if it was a replacement body. look closer at the Hoffman and you will see the seller (tried to) changed the rears on the Manta Ray, Monogram and the Stinger.

I'm not buying your story that Classic didn't have an orange painted body in that time frame.

You said the fronts were wrong, but you show the same and the same as the magazine ad copy I posted.

 

What's left to 'prove' that mine is a 'fraud'?  Don't discount it because you never saw one or the owners or workers of Classic 'don't remember'.

IMO, If you leave the fact out of the book you will be doing a disservice to the interested readers.

 

Was the Testors Terror T car shown in the picture a fraud too? Was it ever on the track? It sure looks nice in the LASCM.