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'70 Ed Lewis sidewinder


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#51 Gator Bob

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:22 PM

Pablo ... I disagree, Surprise ;)

 .. The only motors that would run the same speed in either direction are zero timed or it's 'hurtin'. Negative timing is 'bad'.

 

Jairus, the wire on #4 looks thicker then the other 3 ... to me anyway.  BTW .. I think the yellow endbell was the correct and period color choice. I would go with arm #3. If the car not going to be 'run hard' on the track ... just leave it together with the 'cooler' period drill marks.

 

I find it interesting that the magazine articles shown are close in time but the car went through some changes ... guess it was the lag time.

The 48p vs 64p, bearing plate on the can .. etc..


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#52 Champion 507

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 12:24 AM

Pablo,

 

I agree with Bob's opening lines.

 

All the motors I've dealt with over the past 45 years (with advanced timing on the comms) should run faster in the direction it is timed. You don't need a tach. You can hear it. When a motor runs the wrong way the arcing of the brushes should let you know.

 

The only way a motor should run about the same in both direstions would be one with zero degree comm timing. And even with that, the motor brushes will arc less in one direction than the other, even with zero timing. I experienced that many times with stock Mabuchis back in the 60's.

 

So the fact that Jairus' motor runs equal in both directions is puzzling. Did he zap the mags? Did he run an impedence check on the arm to see how each pole reads? What was the current draw on each direction of rotation? I Dunno. He sure did a first class job building it, so worksmanship is not the issue.

 

IMO he's doing the right thing by selecting an arm that's timed CCW. Lenz arms (which is what I think Jairus has here) mostly are timed CW. Once out of the Mabuchi era, I think Lenz used Mura parts exclusively. Good Lenz arms are worth having and perfect for an inline car, left hand drive sidewinder if used as an endbell drive (Hi Bob and happy belated birthday) or right hand sidewinder drive if driven from the can end.

 

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. :)


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#53 Jairus

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 09:55 AM

Doug,

Yes... there WAS a more arcing in one direction than another.  The motor did run more smoothly in reverse so I pulled the arm.... and the com timing is just as you saw in the first pics. Timed for CW.
All these arms came out of old e-bay cars that I parted out. Mostly Mura "A"s and "B"s.  I scrub them clean and dress up the com long as it is not worn too much.  I am not a motor builder so I don't have all the cool tools Rick and John have.
 

It's a shame that I had to cut the shaft to get it into that Champion can. So as you say... it's now labeled CW and left to wait for a can drive right hand anglewinder project.

I think I shall take Your's and Bob's suggestions to heart and pick the RehCo #24 due to the mild timing.  This car will never be raced anyway. Hardly see a track after I test it.  The other arms including that CCW Mura/Lenz thing next to it really scares me with it's advanced timing.  

Magnets were pulled out of a lightly used Pro-Slot SpeedFX motor that threw a wire. I only had to sand a .001 off the edges to get them to fit tight inside that shim.

Thanks for the help guys. :) 
 


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#54 Jairus

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 12:28 PM

New arm installed.
IMG_1351-vi.jpg
I have to admit that the sound this makes is much closer to the modern Pro-Slot S16D that's in my flexi wing racer.  And that is a nice sound!  Smooth power band and screams at top end of 12v.  (Yeah, I know that vintage arms need careful power application... whatever)


Okay, been dumping "Zip Grip Free" on those vintage orange tires for weeks now. The track opens in 4 hours.  I hope to be there to test out Ed's philosophy of sidewinderdom.
Mounting this loose Can Am body just to cover up the naked goodness of the brass.
IMG_1353-vi.jpg
report soon....

 


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#55 Champion 507

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:12 PM

Great story ending to a great looking car, Jairus. I hope that motor lives up to your expectations. The body looks like a winner, too. :good:


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#56 havlicek

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:40 PM

BEAUTIFUL car Jairus! (as always).  Hey, it may be a trick of the camera or some other illusion, but arm #4 above (post #49) sure looks to be a heavier gauge than the other three.  Do you have a way of measuring resistance fairly accurately?  It sure looks like #4 is a #24 and the other three are #25 winds.

 

-john


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#57 Jairus

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 07:29 PM

John,

I know what you mean.  I could put an ohm meter on it... or send it to you. But the stack is marked "24s" and so I accepted that.
The RehCo 24 runs wonderfully on the otherhand...
IMG_1354-vi.jpg

Took it out for a few laps and it ran beautifully!  
Heavier than my flexi's of course.  Handled beautifully, shot the bank and stuck to the corners like glue on those old 40 year old orange Parma rubber tires.  Ran a few laps at 5.8 and I determined this car to be a success!

Incidentally, this is not the final body.  I just threw it on to have something to look at.
While the final body will also be painted blue and yellow... IT'LL also be a more period correct Porsche 917.  :)


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#58 SlotStox#53

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 07:46 PM

Looks sweet sitting on and running around the track :D Great to hear the track test was a success! Out of curiosity how fast do you flexi's run round the track in comparison to this beauty?

 

Awesome outcome :good: :dance3:



#59 dc-65x

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:08 PM

Fantastic work Jairus. A pleasure to follow your build.......Thanks for sharing it!


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#60 Peter Horvath

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 09:07 PM

Really nice, Jairus! Can't wait to see the finished product.


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#61 Jairus

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 09:37 PM

Looks sweet sitting on and running around the track :D Great to hear the track test was a success! Out of curiosity how fast do you flexi's run round the track in comparison to this beauty?

 

Awesome outcome :good: :dance3:

The comparison is: my 16d flexi NASCAR runs 5.5 with me driving a Champion Turbo chassis on the same track.
My CanAm, also running a Champion Turbo running the ProSlot 4002 (American arm and ballbearings) drops that to 4.8.
Of course I was not pushing the vintage Ed Lewis Champion motor very hard.  With some JK natural rubber and more tuning I think I could have dropped the times the low 5's and more closely to my ProSlot CanAm.  But then they are completely different cars made for different tracks. 

The plate chassis of Ed Lewis' car weighs 146g while my P.S. CanAm weighs in at 109g and comes off the line much more quickly and has brakes that lock up the tires so I can really dive into the turns with that car.  It's one of the best Flexi's I've ever put together and we start racing CanAm's this Thurs.
 


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#62 Jairus

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:18 PM

Hey.... look what came  in the mail today!
Brand new, newly minted Dynamic Porsche 917.  (slobber, drool and.... I WANT TO PAINT IT!!!)
IMG_1368-vi.jpg
(Thank you Victor, you are a true vintage patriot.)

Jairus is: Happy, happy, happy!

 


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#63 dc-65x

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:26 PM

WOW, that's a nice body Jairus..............."may I have it?" :D


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#64 SlotStox#53

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:42 PM

Wow Victor has worked his magic !! Beautiful body , no wonder you can't wait to paint it Jairus :D

#65 Bill from NH

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 08:12 AM

I got a couple of these Porsche bodies a few years back when Victor was selling on ebay. The Dynamic version was often my weekly race car body in the early 70s.


Bill Fernald
 

I heard they weren't going to make yardsticks any longer.


#66 Jairus

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 11:05 AM

Up early this morning and after two Ibuprofen and two cups of frenchroast coffee I got the body cut and mounted.
Yeah... the front wheel openings are not cut yet.  Ed's pin tube location is soooooo close that I am unsure of the shape of those openings.
I defer to anyone who has seen even a glimpse of what Ed did.  Cutting can come later anyway.

IMG_1375-vi.jpg

 

Ready for paint!  I love this stage... and on any normal Saturday morning I would start shaking the bottles and masking the body off.
But.... something came up.

IMG_1377-vi.jpg

 

My parents sold their cabin in the woods recently.  They have owned and maintained it since 1972. Now are clearing out all personal items.

You see....I grew up there.

Played army with my little brother between the trees.

Learned to water ski in the crystal clear waters and road dirt bike through the many trails.
Also hiked the mountains and swam every summer since '72.

 

Drug a couple of girlfriends up with my parents of course.

Spent a few interesting nights of my honeymoon there and toddled our kids in the cool waters at lakes edge.

7am_Satmorning-vi.jpg

 

All my kids grew up to adulthood with-in it's walls, swam in the lake and loved the peace and quiet the beautiful high country middle Oregon provides.

Dad_little_68_runabout-vi.jpg
 

This will be my last trip.
The water should be warm even at 3500 ft elevation, so packing swim trunks for one last dip.
Cowhorn_butte-vi.jpg
 

Paint can wait a few days...  :)

Ciao!


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#67 Pablo

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 11:18 AM

Sounds like you are losing your best friend.

I wish they had given it to you instead of selling it.


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#68 SlotStox#53

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 11:28 AM

That Porsche body looks even better mounted .

Shame they sold it, those views & water are beautiful!
Enjoy that one last dip!

#69 Jairus

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:17 PM

Been a crazy week.  

Received a bunch of bodies to paint, went racing and worked overtime.
Thunder and lightning storms, installed new door glass in the "Surf Rat" (my '58 Ford Station Wagon) and finally saw Spinal Tap.
So.... final pictures of the Ed Lewis car I constructed.

 

2v2oVoc9GxubMLY.jpg

Huge thank you to Victor Ferguson of True Scale for providing the body.
Not correct body for this chassis... because so far nobody alive knows which body Ed actually used with this chassis. But this Porsche 908 body, based on known evidence, is the closest I could come. 
 

 

IMG_1390-vi.jpg

 

IMG_1394-vi.jpg

 

 

IMG_1391-vi.jpg

Time for a new project....
;-)


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#70 SlotStox#53

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:24 PM

Certainly sounds one crazy week Jairus! :shok:  

 

Wickedly Cool paintjob :dance3:  Colors match just so right together, great finish to a superb project.... Lurve that Porsche body!



#71 John Streisguth

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 03:19 AM

Jairus, is that a recent picture of that yelllow boat? It's looks maybe 3 or 4 years older than the one I have, real classic "runabout". :D

 

My sympathies on losing that cabin. Would have been nice to keep it in the family.  We had a summer home like that, but it was sold maybe 40 years ago, shortly after I became an adult.


"Whatever..."

#72 Pablo

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 07:35 AM

Sweeeeet Car, Jairus !!!!!
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#73 Jairus

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 08:59 AM

Thank you guys.

John, that boat is a 1967 model.  The manufacturing plant is/was up in Woodburn where they now make hot tubs. (Fibercraft or some such, I forget exactly what they are called)  The molds for that boat were made for a dozen years and we picked it up in '70 or '71 the year before the cabin was purchased.
Dad keeps it indoors most of the time and has done a lot of work on it to keep it looking great despite it's years.

 

Parents have already put a down payment on a place on the coast. Won't be nearly the same... but much closer.
You see... we had to drive 3 hours to get up to Crescent Lake, while Lincoln City on the Pacific Ocean is only 55 minutes away! The new place has mooring on "D" lake which is with-in walking distance of the ocean. BUT, I won't be swimming there...


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#74 dc-65x

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 02:49 PM

I love it Jairus. Those colors really POP and work well together.


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#75 Hermit #1

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:31 PM

I actually had the privilege of racing against Ed Lewis and one of his full sidewinders in the 1970 St. Louis ARCO on the Checkered Flag 220' Engleman.

Ed's car was smooth and fast, but all the out-of-town Pros had trouble with the esses on that Engleman.  We ran a combined Pro/Semi-Pro main event (low turnout), and a local Pro named Henry Winkler was running away with the race (40+ laps up) until about  the half-way point.  He deslotted at the start of the back straightaway (just a teeny bit too much bite), and took a ride all the way into the wall.  The back end of the car hit first, breaking both ball bearings, the rear magnet, and numerous solder joints.  His car was obviously totaled, and Henry was out of the race.

Another local Semi-Pro named Darby Vreven took over the lead, with me in chase.  At the start of the last heat, we were on the same lap, with him ahead about 120' or so.  I knew I couldn't deslot if I wanted to catch him, so every lap I looked for his car to find and pass him.  At the end of the race, since I hadn't passed him, I turned to him, stuck out my hand, and congratulated him on his win.  He said instead:  "no Dave, you won the race - I came off".  I couldn't believe it at first, but the results were confirmed by the Race Director.  Ed Lewis (1st Place Pro) ended up in 3rd place, many laps down but ahead of the rest of the pack.

I was running a self-built copy of the Steube chassis of the day (.040 brass, .055 inner/.047 outer rails) with a Mura can motor I built around a Bob Kean armature.  I'd qualified very poorly, slimy due to incredible shop warmth because of all the people crowded in, so had to move up thru numerous consolation races.  By the time I'd moved up from the semi-main, my motor was pretty much toast.  I owe my success to Rex "Whizzo" Widmer (of Kansas City, MO), who totally rebuilt the motor and reset the chassis in the break between the semi and the main - still using the same Kean armature.  Unfortunately, Rex is no longer with us, having died in a car wreck in 1999.  He is remembered fondly.

Prior to this race, I'd made one attempt at duplicating an Ed Lewis full sidewinder.  After this race it didn't seem worth all the effort and inconvenience.  It was a unique design, just not superior enough to overcome its shortcomings.  Later I met Larry Halter (from LA), who showed me many tips regarding Lee Gilbert chassis, which I used for several years following.  Those worked extremely well, and stood me in good stead for many races.


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