537 replies to this topic

[TSR]

But I don't see any reason why 1/32 plastic chassis cars can't be raced on the existing tracks at raceways.

Most home-racing cars don't run too well on commercial tracks out of the box. Some are slow as death because the 12-volt power is not enough for them, most will de-slot at every corner especially if the track braid is recessed, and after a few laps their tires will be coated with track debris and will have lost all traction.

We ran two races of 1/32 scale Scalextric Vipers and 1/24 scale Carrera Ferraris at the Slot Car Convention two years ago. The Scalex cars desperately needed longer guides simply to make ANY corner other than parking them at very low speed, and the Carrera cars had the same issue. We were able to fix the Carrera cars by installing a 1/4" aluminum spacer over their drop arms, so that the guide could actually penetrate the slot. We could not fix the Scalecric cars, they needed a TSR guide and major surgery. No time to do it.

The only home-racing cars that fairly run well without changes are the Slot.it. But even then, they need better tires than what is provided as they come.

[Vay Jonynas]

Interesting. Scalextric, Monogram, and Fly cars run quite nicely on the two wooden tracks at my local shop. I'll have to ask Ernie what kind of surface the tracks have.

[gascarnut]

If Ernie's tracks have minimal braid recess then the guide depth problem is reduced. If the tracks surface gets no glue then that helps, too.

I think though that Ernie's tracks are probably not representative of what you would encounter at most commercial raceways - up to .030" braid recess and the remnants of foam-tire racing both detract from the performance of out-of-the-box 1/32 cars.

[Vay Jonynas]

Philippe:

We ran two races of 1/32 scale Scalextric Vipers and 1/24 scale Carrera Ferraris at the Slot Car Convention two years ago.

With magnets?

Gascarnut:

If Ernie's tracks have minimal braid recess then the guide depth problem is reduced.

I talked to Ernie. Not only is the magnetic track braid minimally recessed on his two tracks, they are also coated with a latex paint surface which he says provides even better grip than plastic.

He also discourages/forbids the use of any traction compounds on tires because of the gunk they potentially leave on the track.

With a flick of a switch he can also increase the voltage delivered to more than the standard twelve.

It seems to me that most wooden tracks can therefore readily be made Scalextric plasti-car friendly with these simple measures. Am I wrong?



Interesting as well is that Ernie is about to install a track for 1/43 scale cars. What I really miss though is the dragstrip he had at his old location on Steeles Avenue.

[sportblazer350]

Mr P is pretty much correct about trying to race any of today's RTR 1/32 and 1/24 plastic chassis cars on commercial tracks. however Vanquish Can-Am cars work fine on wood tracks. The track surface must be clean, and glue and tire residue free for home track cars to work properly.

The main reason I stated that commercial raceways should assemble plastic sectional track race courses is to show their customers what they can assemble with what they are buying for at home, and when they bring their home cars to the raceway, they will perform exactly as they do at home. The raceways can provide a racing series that can be much more than the smaller clubs can do. The raceways need to tap into the home/club racers segment of the hobby.

To tell you guys the truth, I am really tired of trying to promote this hobby, only to take constant negative criticism in return. Hey: if I am wrong, and all of you guys are right- then why is the hobby (commercial slot car raceways) not-so slowly dying out, and 1/32 plastic cars and race sets growing??

Thanks to a few who agree with even some of my comments. The rest of you guys... don't come crying to me when your local track closes...

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

The mother of the owner of the local track, which is just a room in a full-service hobby shop, decided she didn't like racers. The "noise and attitude". For a while, she was convinced the racers were shoplifting in other sections!

So, the track went from five races a week to zero all at once. THAT was a killer.

Then seven years ago, a friend of the family convinced them to do a Saturday program for plastic cars. "For the kids". I suggested, being on good terms with the family, that if they sell cars offering something the racers couldn't get at home might be a good thing.

This has been only a moderate success. Summers, races might be six people or cancelled. Most winter races run twelve or so.

Initially, they ONLY ran the cars stock out of the box, and banned any "racer" version with vac interiors, hotter motors, and aluminum wheels. Last year a new race director took over, and observed that as the track SOLD stuff, that the approach was wrong. Customer complaints and all. So, they changed the rules allowing the regular cars to be upgraded to "Slot.it" standards, with aluminum wheels and good gears.

They keep the track super clean, no glue, no cleaner, nothing. Oddly, the track is so slick that most stock motors are all the power you can put down. Ironically, people take Slot.it cars and put in milder motors!

The track is a Hasse-built 125' Hillclimb, with the mid straight replaced with a set of esses to weave around some load bearing pillars, .020" braid recess.

Stock out of the box, most cars are a pain. Better cars, out of the box stock, LMPs by Fly, Scalex, and Ninco (Nincos are usually best out of the box), with do 18 laps in a three-minute heat. Experts, doing a few obvious gluings, blueprinting and the like, will get 20s. Adding aluminum wheels and a few other bits, 21s and 22s.

By comparison, a Womp does 25s and a Flexi 33s.

At least on THIS track, plastic can be raced and be fun, but it hasn't produced a huge surge in participation. The "experts" in the local group were the same "experts" during the Flexi and Scratchbuilt days.

Fate

[Vay Jonynas]

The mother of the owner of the local track, which is just a room in a full service hobby shop, decided she didn't like racers.

There comes a point when every man must stop listening to his mother. It's part of the maturation process aka growing up.

[KTM300]

After reading this thread fully the big question seems to be "How do we bridge the gap between 1/24 and 1/32 RTR?"

I love running 1/32 scale cars on big wood tracks. In my opinion, the bigger the track the better. I'm not going to try and answer the question for everyone, I can only speak for myself. What the big tracks have to offer, I can't get anywhere else. That is the only reason for going to a commercial track. Why would I travel a few or many miles, and pay money to race on the same track I have at home? If I were to spend the money and use the space in my house to build a track, I certainly would not want to spend more money to race at a commercial track even if they had a plastic track on site.

Another aspect is the social event that home track racing is. Friends get together and have soda and beer, pizza, and burgers and the racing is an added bonus and it can last until dawn if the wife does not object. The person that has the track doesn't have to turn a profit. It's nice when the racers pitch in a few bucks to help cover the cost for the race that night, but after that the garage door goes down, the lights go out, and no one has to worry that enough money was made to cover the rent that month.

A big problem for someone that wants to run 1/32 RTRs on wood is that there are not many places to practice and tune cars and none that sell parts for them. I do it because I really enjoy running those cars as fast as I can make them run on as big a track as I can find within a distance I'm willing to drive. Right now that is about one hour from my house.

Making those small hardbodied cars run fast and handle is not easy and a few cars will be destroyed durring the learning curve but I don't destroy cars any more and have become a good driver because I don't want them smashed to pieces.

In one sense, learning to drive plastic cars on wood has really caused me a lot of problems racing D3 or even Flexis. I am overly cautious when driving 1/24 scale cars when I know they can go much faster but it's hard to break the habit of trying to stay in the slot at all costs as opposed to letting loose and going for fast laps. For myself I have already built the bridge and crossed it. No one had to do anything special for me. I just looked at what was available and made the best of it. The mindset that I have is what it would take to make things happen, but only if enough people want the same thing.

A track owner can only provide what the most people want or the track dies. I like to race and the most racers in this area right now want D3 or its equal. The plastic cars I do for fun and the added bonus is seeing people's jaws drop when they find out that a Slot.it can turn fast five second laps on the King.

[idare2bdul]

For those of you that haven't seen Mike Chavez race his 1/32 homeset cars, they are much faster than you would expect. I enjoy 1/32 scale cars.

If my wife doesn't kill me I'll be racing the 1/32 C-can Euros on Sunday of this week. With three days of the convention last week and this Saturday's RetroPro race I'm pushing my luck.

[JimR]

Hello, Unfortunately from the 1/32 scalers I have come in contact with, most won't race at scale tracks for these reasons:

(etc. etc. etc.)

No issue with eBay or Internet for me as I understand and utilize same. But when the local 1/32 scale crowd won't support the local track or tracks at one time it makes it hard to carry 1/32 scale parts, cars, and so forth.

That is why we cater to the 1/24 racer and the drag racer...

Not the 1/32 crowd that I know - BUT - can't argue with you here. Screw 'em.

[Cheater]

Just to chime in, I've known of several commercial raceways that had plastic 1/32 tracks set up and almost without exception, they were never used.

So, Glenn, in my experience the 1/32 plastic car racers won't patronize raceways even if plastic tracks are available, same as KC found.

[don.siegel]

On the other hand, here in Paris (can't speak for the rest of Europe), the only "commercial" tracks around are plastic, and they are being used. Of course, this may be because it's the only thing most racers here know, not to mention the fact that wooden, 1/24 slot racing has pretty much disappeared in France, so any of the hard core racers switched to plastic - and the new generation knows only that.

It's not really a legitimate comparison, because these are all stores that happen to have tracks, and not commercial raceways per se... At the one near me, for instance, track time (four-lane Ninco, over 100 feet) is free, and racers only pay an entry fee for the weekly races. In other words, it's more an adjunct to their sales than a profit center in itself.

Just logically, it seems to me that I'd only be willing to pay/frequent some place that offers something I can't get at home, or in a club situation if there is one: clubs are more the norm in Europe anyway - and that's its own kettle of fish!

Don

[Cheater]

KC,

The quote, which is a wee bit different from your citation, is from Walt Kelly, the cartoonist who used to pen "Pogo".

Walt Kelly first used the quote "We Have Met The Enemy and He Is Us" on a poster for the first Earth Day in 1970.



Rather timely, I'd say, considering Earth Day 2008 was yesterday...

[Prof. Fate]

Hi,

One of the things I see around the country (you guys who know me know my road trip thing) is related to my aphorism that rules are written out of fear.

Overwhelminly the home racers have no idea why or how the cars actually work. When they go to a commerical track, they see a level of expertise in any Flexi racer that frightens them.

If you go to "SlotCarIllustrated" you will see threads on the line of "I have these identical cars and one is faster, why is that?". And no one will actually listen to the answers! And some of the answers are laughable.

Most of the home racers are also drawn to the cars as "diecasts you can race". What that means is that when KTM shows up with his cars, they look bad to their eyes! Eurosports might as well be from Mars.

To illustrate, during the dark ages, I was making a regular trip to run with these guys running old Revell and Monogram cars, before the current RTRs were around. So, I ran my old Revells in practice, they were all happy, but kept asking about the cars I didn't run. These consisted of the Dynamic anglewinders we speak about elsehwere on the board, and a couple of then current ECRA spec cars. I begged off. Finally, the track owner and his best friend insisted on trying the cars. So, the short version is the ECRA won, the Dynamic was second, and the club started arguing about this type of car... and the discussion led to the club collapsing. Most of the racers were out of their comfort zone when not running scale Revell cars, And a couple of the others were "hooked" on the easy driving and the speed.

This second attitude runs into the "big frog in the little pond" syndrome. Whatever the prejudice of the big frog in the group, unless they are careful will destroy the club.

We complain that D3 has too many near relatives, in plastic cars, nearly every club races to the standards of "the big frog". And that means organizing with a track for alien approaches that "the frog" doesn't control wrecks the idea. Plastic has way more politics than D3.

Fate

[Vay Jonynas]

Cool Games:

A third plywood track from the sixties was my favorite but racers hated the figure 8.

But why? Looks great to me! Did they hate figure eights in general or just yours?

[Cheater]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

- George Santayana (1863-1952), The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905

[jimht]

"I Think We're All Bozos On This Bus."
The Firesign Theatre 1971

[Tex]

I may be slow, but I'm stupid.

[idare2bdul]

I've worked my way up to half fast. Or a similar spelling.

[Tex]

Ba-da-boomp! Tsshhh!!!!

[Fred_J]

I may be slow, but I'm stupid.

I think I found my new motto!