245 replies to this topic

[CoastalAngler1]

Copied from New Raceway West Coast Florida post:

 

DOC in COCOA Posted Today, 08:57 AM

I have talked to a few raceway owners and many drivers concerning the Outlaw Rule set. The consensus was that the Outlaw rules would destroy My Series.  We have grown a little bit in the last two years, but could always be better. By trashing everything that has been established and go a completely different direction will destroy the series. What we need to do is to cut down to 4 car classes each race day and keep as much continuity as possible.  It is obvious that the three car classes that should continue (w/o any rule changes) according to car count is 4" NASCAR, GT1/LMP, and GTP.  My Series has introduced a new flexi car class recently: JK RTR Indy Cars.  The first race was awesome with 11 entries.  Furthermore, we need to discuss Group F and Group 12.

 

Also, as proven in Jacksonville, the local raceway will build a strong local racing program by running car classes that are reflected in a state wide series.  No moving target on the rules. When the out-of-towners come into town to race in a state race, the racers and the raceway owner benefit from larger and more competitive fields. A win-win situation which hopefully keeps the raceway doors open.  Us racers need a raceway to go to. Support your local raceway.

 

Dan Dougherty
Back into it after 38 years

 

[CoastalAngler1]

MySeries doesn't need a new name, just some rule tweaks to better align with what others are doing across the country with flexi cars.  USRA is not very involved with My Series, except to use as a starting point for My Series rules.  USRA Membership is not required to participate in My Series.

 

I would like to open up the discussion with possible rule changes:

 

.050 rear clearance (tested in Daytona, works just fine)

Fronts OR wheel stickers

Any commercially available bodies

Eliminate race bucks

Increase race fee to $12.50

 

The cars handle great at .050, easier for newbies for sure and adds a speed dimension for the pros.  All you do is jig at .750, then run .730 tires.

Fronts - this has been beaten elsewhere.  Fronts don't do anything in a flexi car - not appearance nor functionality.

Slot car bodies are a moving target when it comes to inventory - should be anything goes as long as bumpers satisfy tech.

 

We could talk with Ralph Thorne and ADD some Outlaw events in 2016 for the southeast racing community to race with us.

[Michael Rigsby]

Though I don't race flexi anymore, I can agree with what you are saying Charlie. I raced My Series since 2008 when I won the amateur NASCAR championship, and I saw it change a lot, not always for the good.

The .050 clearance is something that could be allowed with no issue. GT1/LMP needs to be opened up to any commercially available LMP body, not just JK products. The powers that be have been blocking this for years and is one contributing factor to me quitting flexi racing.

All the classes need to be open to any commercially available body, regardless of manufacture...Period. There are excellent RedFox LMP and GTP bodies that My Series won't let run, and that is a shame.

I also like the idea of using one motor across the board. It makes for more even and less expensive racing. The My Series races that use built motors have got out of hand...all of them.

I talked to a lot of racers too, and most of them prefer the Outlaw Series rules and approach for keeping it simple. You have maybe one track owner and a couple of racers bucking the change.

Good luck with your effort Charlie. But unless the racers get together themselves and get a majority to agree to them, the My Series rules will stay unfortunately.

Clearance-no issue.
Bodies- no issue, allow any available body legal for the class
Motor- no issue,Retro Hawk fits all.

It is that simple...till you start bucking the My Series establishment.

Get organised

[DOCinCanton]

The SE guys have had many oppurtunities to race with Florida racers in the GRRR series. But they have not.  The past has proven that rule commonality with some other series outside of Florida will not and have NEVER brought racers into Florida.

 

Another point: Having on average only 4 raceways in Florida who were part of the My Series format for the last 5 years, I think that having the number of entries that the series has is actually pretty good under those circumstances. Over the 1st 8 races this year, My Series has averaged 14 entries in 4" NASCAR (110 total), averaged 13 entries in GT1/LMP (101 total), average 9 entries in GTP (73 total), averaged 5.5 in Group F (44 total), and averaged 4 entries in Group 12 (32 total).

 

Based on these numbers and the complete lack of outside state racers, I think very strongly that we should tweak the My Series rule set and car classes.  My short list is 4" NASCAR (no changes to these rules), GT1/LMP (no changes to these rules), GTP (no changes to these rules). If it ain't broke don't fix it!

 

Other car classes are the RTR JK Indy Car (box stock, mainly aimed at beginners). Another car class could be the endurance chassis with Hawk 7 motors.

[Danny Zona]

I myself, done with My Series. It's just not for me and a few racers /track owners I know. If racers still like My Series, cool. Once again, it's just not for me.

Now Outlaw Series, sign me up. Love the rule set. I love how you can use the same motor in three classes. Way easier on new racers. Easier on the pocket as well. You can use same exact car in flexi classes. Just change the body from a nascar to a gtp. Simple and easy for new racers.

[CoastalAngler1]

Make it easy for new racers, and folks who visit Central Florida.  

Add some interesting twists from the old days like pit challenges held as bonus days/points on a weeknight.

 

Currently My Series uses 5 motors in 5 classes, RH, H6, H6BD, H7, GP12...

One motor makes perfect sense, especially for newbies.  One manufacturer car classess are monopolistic.

Change body from NASCAR to GTP to LMP...easy.  (of course, pros will have multiple chassis/bodies/motors each)

 

Last year track owners did not get organized until late December for a series that is supposedly decided by the racers.

Currently there are 4 Florida tracks with 7 different cars racing weekly programs...and they are ALL different.  Only one matches any of the MYS.  Jax is gone, their program has no impact on the future.  GRRR has not promoted very well to entice the SE racers to visit. 

[Ralph Thorne]

Based on these numbers and the complete lack of outside state racers, I think very strongly that we should tweak the My Series rule set and car classes.  My short list is 4" NASCAR (no changes to these rules), GT1/LMP (no changes to these rules), GTP (no changes to these rules). If it ain't broke don't fix it!
 

 

I attempted to come run MySeries event's with other Georgia racer's on three different occasions when they were racing at Jacksonville. Each time I looked at the rules and my head started spinning, then I realized how much money it cost to build 5 different cars with different motors and gave up.

 

I'm confused, you said "we should tweak the My Series rule set" then followed it with "no changes to these rules" behind every class. So do want to change the rules or just limit the classes?

 

The OSS series has turned out better then anyone imagined up here and we thank all the Florida racer's who come up and participate. With that said, OSS or MySeries. which ever you guys choose I hope it can grow bigger and better for you in 2016.

[DOCinCanton]

Look at the outlaw rules for Nascar. No front axle, no front wheels, no interior, no bumper rules. Last I checked, all Nascars had front axles, front wheels, bumpers and driver & interior. We might as well just mount a wedgie body and go racing!

 

And another thing: One motor for all car classes. Crap. I am getting sick of running the JK Retro Hawk in everything.  I like some variety in the various car classes, especially in the motor department.

[Ralph Thorne]

Look at the outlaw rules for Nascar. No front axle, no front wheels, no interior, no bumper rules. Last I checked, all Nascars had front axles, front wheels, bumpers and driver & interior. We might as well just mount a wedgie body and go racing!

 

Well actually that was our goal...just mount a Nascar body and go racing! I subscribed to the KISS theory, and it seems to be working.

[DOCinCanton]

Well Ralph, lets make even more simple. Have a manufacturer mold up a wedgie body and run it in all car classes.

[Ralph Thorne]

Well Ralph, lets make even more simple. Have a manufacturer mold up a wedgie body and run it in all car classes.

 

Actually if all or any of the local raceway's around here ran Wedge bodies I would have made that a class. However they don't, but they ALL do run either Nascar, GTP or Can-Am and some run all three. I think that's what helps make it so successful. Hard to argue with 175 entries after just 2 events.

 

I'm not trying to bash the MySeries in anyway, but I think it has one of two problems, or maybe both. Too complicated of a rule set or there's just no flexi racer's in the state of Florida?

[CoastalAngler1]

Look at the outlaw rules for Nascar. No front axle, no front wheels, no interior, no bumper rules. Last I checked, all Nascars had front axles, front wheels, bumpers and driver & interior. We might as well just mount a wedgie body and go racing!

 

And another thing: One motor for all car classes. Crap. I am getting sick of running the JK Retro Hawk in everything.  I like some variety in the various car classes, especially in the motor department.

 

Seems to me, that the MYS is an awful lot of $ for a new person, or visitor...I know this all too well, cost me a couple thousand.

 

If I've heard the past history correctly, the FK sealed can motor was introduced in MYS because some felt motor work was too much to deal with and unfair for newbies.

 

Complex rules - scare off new potential racers.  Growth on Thursday nights in Melbourne proves simple works!

 

How bout it?

 

Do you have a flexi? (stamped steel, alum pans ok)

Does it have a class representative body? (no home made wooden or playing card bodies lol)

RH Motor (the equalizer)

.050 rear clearance

64 or 48 pitch gears

Wanna go fast?

 

Let's Race!  Tech for weight, height, bumpers, fronts, rears, etc...takes up valuable racing time!

 

Tracks in Florida get a pop in their sales the month either GRRR or MYS shows up - but they don't base their business model around them.

 

This is 2015.  Soon the calendar changes and a new 2016 race season begins.  In life, everything always changes.

[DOCinCanton]

Ralph, your car count is awesome. I am jealous actually. I wish you guys the best of slot racing. I wish that I was closer.

 

However, what you said in post #7 is not correct. GRRR has been racing with the same ruleset (IRRA) as the SE was for more than 5 years and there have been many races in Jax. I don't recall ever seeing you there.  I know that when a person has a job, its difficult to travel out of state.

 

Another point that I would like to make is that Florida has only 4 active tracks (well almost 4). Got to get Ed's track going 100%. Georgia, South Carolina and Alabama have 14 tracks, inclusively. As you pointed out, Florida has a lack of earnest slot car racers, not just flexi car racers but slot car racers in general. My Series is pulling maybe 46 entrants per event. GRRR is pulling maybe 10 per event, where 4 racers run both series.

[Michael Rigsby]

Anytime I hear the argument about front wheels on a flexi, I almost laugh out loud. Really, a Slick 7 lightweight o ring front wheel that doesnt touch the track serves a function? REALLY?? The sticker wheel looks better in my opinion, and serves just about as much function to the car as the wheels being used now.

Front bumpers and drivers should be a drivers choice. The cars do look better with both, but i have seen some slip through tech at My Series races that shouldn't have been legal.

If you are into motor building, race a Group 12 car. Participation will go up in NASCAR,LMP,and GTP when everyone uses only one reliable motor, and that's the Retro Hawk. GTP motors in My Series got out of hand big time with the intoduction of the Big Dog/Hawk 6 combo. Using one motor in all flexi classes makes it a drivers series, not a money series.

I would much rather race with a group of guys knowing that motors are out of the equation, like GRRR/IRRA racing.

'Nuff said.

[CoastalAngler1]

Will someone please add to this discussion when the 2016 series meeting for racers and owners is to be held?

 

We should be organized and have specific issues written down on paper BEFORE the meeting, including a way for proxy votes to count. (ahem, directors?)

 

This thread should be printed and read out loud at the meeting...all sides should be heard.

 

A vote should cost $5-$10 to go in the series fund for prizes...or to help MYS pay for the food at the meeting.

 

It is time to be creative and make changes for this dinosaur sport - too soon for extinction?

 

Why do tracks give $100 each to MYS - eliminate that along with track bucks.  Have each racer contribute $10 for the year's prizes.  There are so many ways to change this thing - and turn it around!   

 

 

BTW - adding a spoiler to a NASCAR or GTP or LMP actually doesn't work I tried it...and Ralph passed me in advance for tech hahaha.  If you think modifying what is already in place on the wall at the slot car shop for an Outlaw car will gain you an advantage, don't forget the motor only revs so fast...racing becomes even more competitive and the simplicity lends itself to newness and growth.  It really comes down to tires, gears, and how well you build the chassis and body.  Rules for confusion are not gonna make the track owners rich.  Some time ago, DOC and I talked about what it would be like to have a big race in Florida - we are almost there.

[DOCinCanton]

So what I see above is that Charlie (who raced with us a few times), Danny (the most awesome slot car racer that I have seen recently), and Ralph (not mind that he never raced with us) want to trash the current My Series format. You want to run two car classes that are identical except for the body. The 3rd class is IRRA Can-Am which we race in GRRR events.

 

I am thinking that those racers who have supported the My Series races that most over the last couple years should have the most number of votes.

 

I need to repeat that the track owners that I have talked to personally think that the outlaw ruleset will destroy flexi racing in Florida.

[CoastalAngler1]

And of course, we should take up a collection to pay Shirley Harrington to be our race director!  I can still hear her saying, "Clear...Ready...Race!"

 

OK, maybe cost prohibitive.

[Danny Zona]

Anytime I hear the argument about front wheels on a flexi, I almost laugh out loud. Really, a Slick 7 lightweight o ring front wheel that doesnt touch the track serves a function? REALLY?? The sticker wheel looks better in my opinion, and serves just about as much function to the car as the wheels being used now.

Front bumpers and drivers should be a drivers choice. The cars do look better with both, but i have seen some slip through tech at My Series races that shouldn't have been legal.

If you are into motor building, race a Group 12 car. Participation will go up in NASCAR,LMP,and GTP when everyone uses only one reliable motor, and that's the Retro Hawk. GTP motors in My Series got out of hand big time with the intoduction of the Big Dog/Hawk 6 combo. Using one motor in all flexi classes makes it a drivers series, not a money series.

I would much rather race with a group of guys knowing that motors are out of the equation, like GRRR/IRRA racing.

'Nuff said.

What a great point. Especially the old front wheel argument.

Racers who wedge the nascar bodies won't be as fast. It messes up the balance of the body. Been there tried that.

Also, I've built motors that have won USRA nats, AMSRA nats and even had a motor finish 2nd at an ISRA nats. I would rather race fk sealed style motors any day. I love going to a race and some new racer is just as fast as me because of the fk sealed style motor. The new/rookie racers loves it even more.

[CoastalAngler1]

DOC - read my first post again - trash is not the word - change is needed for growth.  This is a discussion.  Everyone here I bet will agree with me that you are to be commended for your hard work in My Series.  The name is great, and others in the country know MYS is Florida.  What I'm lobbying for is a way for more racers to enjoy what we do.  Go ask the 5.5 racers on Thursday if they would go to a MYS with simple rules.  Go ask the regulars at Fast Eddie's the same.  What I think, or what you think is not the point.

 

I'm the only one here with new ideas???  

 

I will buy 5 bodies each class regardless of the voting and mount them differently for different tracks.  I will have multiple motors for each class too.  And multiple gears and tires...so will others...the cash register will keep ringing.  What's the difference if bumpers, fronts, or interiors?  We are not scale by any stretch of the imagination.  Simple works...

 

Oh ya, what about the racers who get whipped by the fast guys, race after race - what ideas does MYS have in place to encourage them and keep them?  Change is due.

[Danny Zona]

So what I see above is that Charlie (who raced with us a few times), Danny (the most awesome slot car racer that I have seen recently), and Ralph (not mind that he never raced with us) want to trash the current My Series format. You want to run two car classes that are identical except for the body. The 3rd class is IRRA Can-Am which we race in GRRR events.
 
I am thinking that those racers who have supported the My Series races that most over the last couple years should have the most number of votes.
 
I need to repeat that the track owners that I have talked to personally think that the outlaw ruleset will destroy flexi racing in Florida.

Not sure how I trashed the My Series! All I said is its not for me anymore. Also said if racers want to run My Series, cool.

[Ralph Thorne]

I need to repeat that the track owners that I have talked to personally think that the outlaw ruleset will destroy flexi racing in Florida.

 

 Interesting, the ones I talked to thought the opposite. 

 

I would love hearing their opinion on why it would "destroy flexi racing". Certainly my goal while creating the OSS was not to destroy slot car racing.

 

Once again, your losing racer's because their attending OSS races instead. Must not be that destructive.

 

Respectfully Doc, your on an island all alone on this one. I havent seen, heard of, or talked to a single person who thinks the MS is perfect how it is.....except you.

 

I'm not trying to tell you that you need to run the OSS rules, but I am telling you the MS rules need some help.

[Danny Zona]

So what I see above is that Charlie (who raced with us a few times), Danny (the most awesome slot car racer that I have seen recently), and Ralph (not mind that he never raced with us) want to trash the current My Series format. You want to run two car classes that are identical except for the body. The 3rd class is IRRA Can-Am which we race in GRRR events.
 
I am thinking that those racers who have supported the My Series races that most over the last couple years should have the most number of votes.
 
I need to repeat that the track owners that I have talked to personally think that the outlaw ruleset will destroy flexi racing in Florida.

I do appreciate the kind words on awesome slot car racer. Lol Thanks, Doc.

[DOCinCanton]

Charlie wrote: "Go ask the 5.5 racers on Thursday if they would go to a MYS with simple rules" ​

 

This is not true. I have talked to the 5.5 racers; very recently in fact. And they said that they would like to race in My Series but did not want to get crashed by the fast guys every time. That is why they race in 5.5 and now 5.0. The rules are not complicated; you just have to read them. When I started in My Series, I was getting lapped constantly. But I kept on improving. It took me about 2 1/2 years to finally win a race. 

 

The series used to have expert and novice driver classes. This idea is being tried in the JK Indy Car class. My Series had a great turn out for the 1st race. I think 11 racers. Next time at P1, we should run the two driver classes as separate races if we have enough racers for each.

 

The more I think about it, to grow the series, we should go back to the expert/novice driver classes. The rules can be different between the two driver classes. JK Retro Hawk motors for the novice guys in Nascar, GT1/LMP, and GTP. In this manner, the expert drivers still have a place to race our Hawk 6's and Hawk 6 BD's.

[DOCinCanton]

Danny, you are are welcome.

 

Ralph: I never said that My Series rules are perfect, so dont you dare put words in my month. I have said above several times that they need to be tweaked; not thrown out entirely. The My Series racer has an investment in Hawk 6 and Hawk 6 BD motors. There should be some transition or other accommodation for these motors.

 

Those drivers who have consistently supported the series and those who want to participate in the future should have a say in these matters.

[Ralph Thorne]

I have said above several times that they need to be tweaked; not thrown out entirely.

 

I'll refer to post 7 and ask you again since I never got an answer...

 

You said "we should tweak the My Series rule set" then followed it with "no changes to these rules" behind every class you listed. So do want to change the rules or just limit the classes?

 

If you want to change them, whats your idea?